While the World Focuses on Bush, Putin Actually Becomes a Tyrant

reply to post by BigC2012


I don't recall any journalists in the US begin murdered for speaking out against the government. I haven't heard of any US proponents of democracy being thrown in jail. Maybe you could enlighten me if you know anything to the contrary.

Centurion I we dont agree much but I agree here. Putin is a disgrace and a mafia leader. Anyone who is against him he picks off. I have said this before I have my issues with my country but I can at least say whats on my mind and not worry about getting killed where as in Russia there have been reporters getting picked off left and right. I think this is why Bush and him are boys. They both self loath in their evil selves. They are both evil people and looking out for their own interest and not that of the people.

reply to post by mybigunit


Putin is the best thing to happen to Russia in a long time.

With security and stability will come democratic reform. As the Russian economies grows (as it is doing) the need for greater transparency and accountability will be met by reform. Out of this the political institutions for democracy will grow naturally.

And its certainly better than the chaos that they had in the 90's. Of which many western leaders rever - not because it was good for the Russian people, but because it led to Russian weakness and the selling off of all their natural resources to the oligarchs.

Personally i think Putrin is a true patriot. He has literally transformed Russia from a shell of its former self to a path of economic development and independance.

The Americans on this board talk about a few journalists dying and try to link ito the Russian government (of which none of the evidence is conclusive) yet they forget that their own government has killed hundreds of thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan. There really does seem to be a lack of perspective on your part.

Not to mention it is always those outside of Russia who call Putin a tyrant.

Meanwhile he enjoys some 70% approval rating. Putin ends the war in Chechnya. He presides over ten years of economic growth and reclaims the resources that were stolen under the supposed cloud of democracy that enveloped Russia while Yeltsin was drunk as a skunk.

If Putin has autocratic tendencies he has gone about using them in the right way.

Originally posted by Euroche
He holds the chaos of Boris Yeltsin's tenure as a good period in Russian history. He then holds oligarchs like Khodorovsky as proponents of democracy and human rights - just as he was in the process of trying to sell off to Cheney and co.

Isn't Khodorovsky's wealth now in the hands of Rothschild?

That says enough.

But anyway, like said above... Putin is most probably involved in the Russian mafia and I wouldn't be surprised if it was him and his cronies who where behind the murder of those journalists and the poisoned ex-spy. Something terribly rotten is going on with the Russian government.

Do you think the elections in USA are real ? Do you think "they" would not care and be happy with whatever random person comes about every 4 years and destroys what they have built in 100 years ?
First : that person cannot be random, look at Ron Paul. Second, you use machines to count paper votes, and have only 2 parties

I am not saying that in Russia any random Russian has a chance to be president. But Putin is loved, has a 70% approval rate, he works at a Russia for the Russians. Not what the West wants : a 3 world country with natural resources ready for the taking. Like Nigeria
They hoped it will be like that, and for 10 year after 1990 it was. Not anymore



I myself like him because he has a black belt in judo. I practiced jiu jitsu and no black belt owning person I know is evil or materialistic

[edit on 19-5-2008 by pai mei]

It is interesting how many people, including politicians when pushed into a corner about an issue that they can't defend pull what I am now calling the "American card" in their arguments. You see it seems just like a court room when a defense is loosing a case they may pull the race card to win or divert attention.

It is always "we should not be worried about this situation after all look at what the Americans are doing ...they are the evil ones"...blah....blah...blah.

I don't agree with what has been done in our name to counties around the world, but there are a lot of leaders out there that are just as bad and in many, many, cases far worse.

[edit on 05/16/2008 by CaptGizmo]

reply to post by CaptGizmo


They do the same thing using Bush any time you try to pin them down on hillary or O(bs)ama. Same is true with the foreigners. Try pointing out any issue they have going on in their counties and all they can say is that Bush and/or the U.S. blah, blah, blah as you said it.

Guess they're so desperate that thaey cannot see what a totally weak argument that is.

reply to post by Bunch


Are you saying Putin is just like Chavez? Really? Do you know that little about Russia and Venezuela?

funny article , but i am not surprised that propaganda # is being spewed by dailymail which clearly has an russophobic agenda ....

dailymail is known for its right wing agenda ...

anyways we have bigger isssues like global warming ?? what about that??

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 19-5-2008 by manson_322]

Originally posted by Euroche

If Putin has autocratic tendencies he has gone about using them in the right way.

Well, if you're not a russian, you'd apparently make a good one with that comment. Again, the russians have been "bred" over the generations to want stability and order more than freedom. They literally don't know what freedom is or what to do with it. To them, it generates too many choices, so they retreat back to the stability of just being told what to do.

Sad. And sad that it's easy to find people that agree with that.

I'm totally supporting Putin he is a patriot and has the power to rise Russia as the world leader again.That ofcourse is a nighhmare for the west and they are trying to present him as a tyrant.I can't recall the last time when Putin ordered an invasion to a sovereing country and killing million of innocent people ,stealing their oil .He maybe responsible for a few political murders but if it's for the sake of wellbeing of Russia it's all good.

Originally posted by TheComte
I don't recall any journalists in the US begin murdered for speaking out against the government.

And you most likely wont as i suspect their news networks sends them to Iraq where they get picked off like flies on a wall. Feel free to check out just how many US journalist have died under mysterious circumstances in the various conflict zones. I will agree that it's not so easy to have journalist assassinated in the USA and that' why all the alternative methods are used to not only get them silenced ( losing your job, trumped up drug charges etc or basic slander) but to ensure that no one would listen to them even if they still had a voice. I you must stoop to actually killing journalist that says far more about the quality and seriousness of his message than it does about how free the society in question is.

I haven't heard of any US proponents of democracy being thrown in jail.

If you would take your fingers out of your ears you might have a chance.

Maybe you could enlighten me if you know anything to the contrary.

So the fact that people spend a dozen years in jail for drug possession doesn't seem like something contrary to democracy and justice? When did US citizens vote to send millions of people to jail for using drugs?

Stellar

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by Bunch

 

Are you saying Putin is just like Chavez? Really? Do you know that little about Russia and Venezuela?

In a sense they are alike, they entice the poor with a few things here and there to cloud their senses from everything else that is happening around them.

Putin and Chavez has both manage to cut in the freedom of the press, to instill fear on those who opposed them by many means, and at the same time cultivate support by given back to those that have always been forgotten, sounds familiar? Only look to Cuba, where Fidel manage to rule for over 50 years with the support of the people, does that means that he was a good ruler? Was Saddam a good ruler for Irak?

The thing is with tyrants and dictators is that they manage to rule by fear and if that takes to cut on liberties here and there, kill a few people or in some cases thousands in the name of power then is fair game.

This all applies for many countries including the U.S. too, tyrants are tyrants and they are everywhere.

[edit on 19-5-2008 by Bunch]

reply to post by StellarX




Ask any journalist - go ahead ask one one of them - if they would rather be sent to iraq or assassinated with radioactive poison. Of course that assumes (falsely) that the U.S. actually does exile people to iraq.

Speaking of exile, Putin has got to be your guy. Maybe he can even bring you home to moscow from exile (in South Africa! What did you do to deserve that?) one of these years.

Last, I think this has to be your shortest post EVER.

western media slams putin , eastern media slams bush - and the circus goes round and round

what ever the reasoning - putin has brought stability and wealth to russia after years in teh dolldrums - and the plays he is making now whilst the world looks to the middle east is the main interest -

the question is - will the US become bog downed in the caucusses - the plays are allready starting - and will the US support its new Georgian friend or let them burn?

Originally posted by mybigunit
Centurion I we dont agree much but I agree here. Putin is a disgrace and a mafia leader.

But at least he got elected, right? As for him being a disgrace i know i would try to do more faster but since i am actually interested in such things, a interest few politicians apparently share, it's a bit of a moot point.

Anyone who is against him he picks off.

So name a few then and why are the leaders of opposing parties still alive?

I have said this before I have my issues with my country but I can at least say whats on my mind and not worry about getting killed where as in Russia there have been reporters getting picked off left and right.

So how many reporters have died in Russia as compared to the US in say the last decade? Who decides what passes as a journalist? Doesn't the killing of journalist just alert common people to what's happening? If you want to persist in this line of reasoning i think i can show that American citizens are fooled by their governments actions far more so than are Russians as Russians are simply more aware of the lies they hear and what their government may do to suppress the media. In the US journalist may not frequently be killed but plenty of careers are ended by other means and Americans genuinely far less aware of all the nonsense that gets peddled to them.

I think this is why Bush and him are boys.

Do you believe that they are actual honest to god friends?

They both self loath in their evil selves. They are both evil people and looking out for their own interest and not that of the people.

I'm sure about Bush , and where he belongs, but Putin is still a bit more mysterious so i will reserve a bit more judgement than i have for Bushco.

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX

But the poor are eating more than they used to while the middle classes expands as oil and natural resource wealth are redirected to the people. This all while the average US citizen works ever more hours to gain the same income...

And people that opposed them are been killed, intimidated and the press been repressed.

So , comparatively speaking, what did Putin do that comes close to the recent US foreign adventures? In fact what did the USSR do that comes close to the abuses of the US national security state during the cold war?

Like I said Putin is bad for Russian, Bush for the entire world. That does not change the fact they both horrible.

But things got better for Russians under Putin while they got worse for Americans under Bush? I am not sure that Putin has far more support than Bush ( neither won by landslides or had massive voter turnouts) and i must admit that comparatively speaking it was much easier to raise living standards in Russian than it was to do so in the USA. That being said it was clearly never the intent of Bush and the gang to do anything beneficial for average Americans while Putin and Chavez clearly had such things in mind.

To give handouts here and there to those who had nothing its just creates a cloud temporary benefit while in the meantime they reign in on those who oppose them and corrupt the system for their own and those close to them.

Another interesting question arises if one proposes to shift Putin to the US and Bush to the RF . Under the constraints of the US constitutional/judicial + US armed forces would Putin have tried what he did in Russia and what might Bush and his friends have done with the quite extensive armaments and less well ingrained judicial/governments processes in Russia? So my feeling is basically that both Chavez and Putin would have been suitable restrained in the US system and would comparatively have done far more for Americans than Bushco did. Since it's feeling , it not unsupported, i would appreciate it if you frame your response in that way.

I think you have a great point here, but what I fail to see is how effective they would have been raising standards of living or helping the poor here in the U.S., is not the same raising standards in Venezuela or Russia as it is in the U.S.. But as far as how Bush and Co. would have done been in charge of any of those two, thats a scary thought IMO.

This is about who will rule the world at the end of the day , the pieces are moving, the alliances forming - but that is the prize that is at the end of the tunnel.

Bunch has pretty much nailed it. Can't disagree with Putin having a near Dictator status and being Tyrannical. But it's a case of throwing stones in a glass house. One tyrant is dominating his nation, the other is attempting to dominate his nation AND much of the rest of the world. Although this is FAR beyond being relegated to Solely Bush and Insaney.

Both countries are guilty of sponsoring complete SHAM electoral processes. The recent Russian "elections" were totally head-scratchers:

What exactly were their "choices"?

Same can be said here---The "choices" are nothing more than a Dog and Pony show of puppets selected FOR us by Corporate, M.I.C., and Private Banking rulers. No matter WHO is elected, the same interests will be carried on, with nary a skip in the step uninterupted.