reply to post by Bigwhammy
Maybe you will be civil so the mods don't lock your thread this time?
Yes, Whammy, and perhaps you can be mature enough to not bring that up anymore to point out my hot-headedness in an attempt to give yourself more
Absurd. Perception is only how we discover morality. Perceptions are just that... what we perceive. Its the same as truth- the truth is true rather
you perceive it to be or not. It is absolute.
Absurd? Really? Is that the word you want to use here? What sounds more 'absurd' to you (according to Occam's Razor), perceptions that help us
'discover' reality, or using our perceptions (remember the Mexican apple thief) to create them as a means to continue survival and functionality?
C'mon Whammy, the simplest explanation, not the supernatural one.
No killing innocent people is wrong whether you know it or not. It is always wrong regardless of what you accept.
According to your morals. YOUR morals. I can think of when it could be justified, as there are ALWAYS exceptions. You have learned through living
the life given to you that it is wrong, that is why you are saying what you are. Because the morals you've learned tell you this. That is moral
relativity there, my friend.
Semantics... So morality is dependent on YOUR perception- so whatever bigbert thinks is moral is... If that was true then Hitler was moral just
because he thought so.
I can see you're still using the same Hitler thing, and the answer is...ready for this?...
...it depends on the 'Observer'.
Hitler was moral in his own eyes and many, many others, while he was not moral in my eyes. Go study some basic science, and you will see what the
definition of an 'Observer' is, whom you have completely neglected to mention in any of your arguments.
Wrong again bigbert. Objective moral standard meabns a standard that does not change. Like stealing is immoral.
The way poeple learn through experiences doesn't disagree with everything I said - so what's your point? We discover morality through our
experiences and relationships.
No Whammy, we don't 'discover' morality, we learn it, it's taught to us. We're taught to share in Kindergarten, we're taught that stealing is
wrong, and lying is bad. We are taught these things by our parents and schools and teachers. The thing is though, if you went to another culture or
another time, they might teach you that stealing is necessary for survival, or sharing gets you nowhere. It depends on where you are taught, how you
are taught, and who teaches you, among several other things. Culture and growing up.
Now, go ahead and wonder 'Why then, is stealing or murder wrong in just about any place I can think of on the planet now? There must be an absolute
morality'. Well, no. The fact of the matter here Whammy, is that these cultures and societies have developed many of the same moralities because
they found that these certain moralities are more beneficial to their survival and culture. They can let their societies grow more civilized if they
decide that making stealing or murder a bad thing.
Remember, Whammy, Mexican apple thief.
You are exactly backwards again. Relative morality makes them the opinions of men. Hitlers opinion and that of the Nazis was that they were right. So
in bigbert relative land they were moral.
Whammy, you are still on a one sided track here. Think about what I'm saying before you respond so hastily again.
The only way you can say they acted immorally is to smuggle in the absolute standard you are arguing against.
Ugggh, no Whammy. I can say that because according to MY observations and beliefs, he did something horrible. I think you might have a bit of a
misunderstanding of what moral relativism is, according to this last quote here, so I suggest you Google it and do some reading. Please do this
before you respond again, Whammy.
Absolutely they are wrong. If you believe in basic human rights that is. But I guess you don't - its all justrelative... So since the Communists
think its moral to them - presto - its moral
Listen to you Whammy. 'They are wrong'. 'They are wrong'. 'THEY are wrong'. Whammy, I know you can what I'm saying here, you're smart
enough, but stubborn as hell. Calling someone else's beliefs 'wrong' just goes to show how close-minded you are being. This is the same mentality
that has fueled thousands of years of religious wars and deaths, because each side thought that the other's beliefs were 'wrong'. Scary Whammy,
If you do not agree stealing lying and murder are immoral I cant help you. I know you must. Its not opinion its objective truth. People have
discovered these morals. Mostly through our reactions - more than our actions.
How divine that you feel that you are 'helping' me. Whammy, I do find those things to be immoral because of the way I was raised. You seem to have
these thoughts that moral relativists don't have consciences or any morals, and Whammy, you are severely misinformed and wrong.
But morality tells us to do things against our survival instinct. It is Anti Darwinian to run into a burning house risking your life to save a
stranger. It goes against your own survival but morality tells you you "ought" to do it.
And morality also tells you and society how to better survive Whammy. You are picking and choosing here what to believe. I've already given you the
Mexican apple thief as an example, but you chose to ignore it and pick out an exception. There are ALWAYS exceptions, Whammy, and I do hope that one
day you will learn that.
It's too easy to do as well... it's getting boring.
So if you want to debate in a debate forum anytime you are ready. I'm still waiting. Until then I'm bowing out of this thread.
Yes Whammy, you've made it look so easy, haven't you? There has not been a single line here to which I haven't appropriately responded to, nor a
point which you have tried making to which I have not corrected, and you have made it sound 'too easy'.
Congratulations on your delusions of grandeur, and perhaps when I study more of science and you study more of religion, I can hope to one day have an
actual debate with you in which someone else actually judges the responses instead of you just assuming you have put me in my place.
Until then, can't say I'll miss you.