Maybe you will be civil so the mods don't lock your thread this time?
Perceptions are what create morals, Whammy. This is how morals are made in the first place.
Absurd. Perception is only how we discover morality. Perceptions are just that... what we perceive. Its the same as truth- the truth is true rather you perceive it to be or not. It is absolute.
But Whammy, you are appealing to OUR morals and making them appear to be 'absolute', when in fact, they are the morals which you and I have accepted through our lives.
No killing innocent people is wrong whether you know it or not. It is always wrong regardless of what you accept.
No Whammy, not wrong, but INACCURATE. You are confusing the 2 words there. And I can say this because it's according to MY morals and beliefs.
Semantics... So morality is dependent on YOUR perception- so whatever bigbert thinks is moral is... If that was true then Hitler was moral just because he thought so.
Wrong again Whammy. Firstly, you should clarify what you mean by 'objective moral standard'. Secondly, people view right and wrong by the morals they learn through life and influences. You are bridging a gap that is not crossable.
Wrong again bigbert. Objective moral standard meabns a standard that does not change. Like stealing is immoral.
The way poeple learn through experiences doesn't disagree with everything I said - so what's your point? We discover morality through our experiences and relationships.
Without morals being relative, everyone in the world might as well have believed that Hitler's ways were right, but it's moral relativism that stopped him. Differing beliefs. It's moral relativism that keeps the world honest, not absolutism, because, after all, who determines what the absolutes will be?
You are exactly backwards again. Relative morality makes them the opinions of men. Hitlers opinion and that of the Nazis was that they were right. So in bigbert relative land they were moral.
The only way you can say they acted immorally is to smuggle in the absolute standard you are arguing against.
Would you have the same views about Communism if you were a Chinese man living in China? Or is anybody who supports their societal structure wrong, or just wrong in your eyes?
Absolutely they are wrong. If you believe in basic human rights that is. But I guess you don't - its all justrelative... So since the Communists think its moral to them - presto - its moral
According to who's morals? Once again, Whammy, you are trying to appeal to my own to use that as a means of getting me to agree that the above statement is correct when it is in fact, not. That is, in fact, an opinion, and NOT a fact.
If you do not agree stealing lying and murder are immoral I cant help you. I know you must. Its not opinion its objective truth. People have discovered these morals. Mostly through our reactions - more than our actions.
Morality was ALSO created and passed along to help with survival.
But morality tells us to do things against our survival instinct. It is Anti Darwinian to run into a burning house risking your life to save a stranger. It goes against your own survival but morality tells you you "ought" to do it.
Trounced' huh? Yeah right.
It's too easy to do as well... it's getting boring.
So if you want to debate in a debate forum anytime you are ready. I'm still waiting. Until then I'm bowing out of this thread.
[edit on 6/25/2008 by Bigwhammy]