When a war is decided by what one soldier uses as a training target, then there is no hope for the USA.

This is exactly like it would be to not allow soldiers during WW2 to shoot at swastika flags.

Originally posted by WickedStar
We've all heard what happens at Guantanamo Bay.

Yep .. lots of anti-American propaganda coming out about that place.
None of it substantiated.

Wickedstar - so the soldier got relocated out of Iraq? To him it was probably worth getting into trouble for. He probably (and I can't prove this) wanted that all along.

I do have something to add. People are saying what a Soldier does voices the opinon of the Government. This is not so, though it is so percieved.

It is true, almost all of us Volunteer to be Soldiers. After that, we never volunteer again. We don't ASK to come to War, we are SENT. This is why the Military always has tried to keep the Soldiers non-political. Some do not agree with the War we are in, even as they are sent to fight and possible die in it.

If the Soldier was making a statement it was that he is predjudice and ignorant (knowing how much good public relations with citizens in country improves our saftey) and against the Muslim faith. And that is fine, as an American he has that Freedom. Sadly, showing more ignorance, he has cost Soldiers lives. Retaliation comes in many forms here. I can grant his action reached ears of those we fight, who responded in some manner (whether IED or Snipers) and took American lives. I hope this Sergeant can live with that, it's a cross I myself could not bear.

A soldier shooting a bible amongst a war. I don't even think this is news worthy. I'm not saying what he did was right, but war is not cute and fun. The man shooting the book was probably tired,frustrated, and all that good stuff war does to a man. Then man doesn't need to apologize. He probably needs to rotate home and get his bearing back. I just got done reading a book about the Pacific front in world war 2. There are actually hundreds of accounts of Marines and Japanese keeping eachothers body parts as a trophy of war. One account that stands out was a marine who cleaned and kept a Japanese skull. It ended up being a candle holder. War does bad things to human being, in a business of killing shooting a book isn't that bad.

Originally posted by Attari
You can legislate laws to appease the offended, but you can't legislate the (sick) Islamophobic minds of people. This is a matter between the soldier and his creator.

So, what do you suggest we do about the (sick) western-o-phobia being force fed into the minds of good little muslims everywhere? You know, the (sick) western-o-phobia that results in bombings of innocents, kidnappings, decapitations, jihads over cartoons, threats to flog teachers, etc., etc..

Level playing field please.

Deny hypocrisy!

I've just starred one of FF's posts...

I think I'm going to be sick...

Anyway, is this really a big issue? My money says he's not even close to the only soldier who's done this, and FF has a point in her above post. Even if he is anti-Islam, can you really blame him for what he's in the middle of right now?

I bet most, would have lower than normal feelings about the Muslims if we were over there fighting and killing them. It's understandable, especially when you think about the stuff he's told about them everyday.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas


I have to ask you a question. Have you actually read the Quran, word for word? Or are these beliefs taught, just like our Bible, throughout different and various "Christian" religions to be segmented in thoughts and beliefs?

If you have not read the Quran, and no I have not, then you know nothing of what you speak. The Art of War teaches you to know and understand your enemies better so as to better be able to understand how to defeat him/her through their own beliefs, strengths, and weaknesses. Even if you totally disagreed with the book after having read it, you might actually learn to be a better soldier.

Let's just pull a few quotes from the Quran then:

YUSUFALI: Say: "O people of the Book! Do ye disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in Allah, and the revelation that hath come to us and that which came before (us), and (perhaps) that most of you are rebellious and disobedient?"
PICKTHAL: Say: O People of the Scripture! Do ye blame us for aught else than that we believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed aforetime, and because most of you are evil-livers?
SHAKIR: Say: O followers of the Book! do you find fault with us (for aught) except that we believe in Allah and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed before, and that most of you are transgressors?

005.060
YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"
PICKTHAL: Shall I tell thee of a worse (case) than theirs for retribution with Allah? (Worse is the case of him) whom Allah hath cursed, him on whom His wrath hath fallen and of whose sort Allah hath turned some to apes and swine, and who serveth idols. Such are in worse plight and further astray from the plain road.
SHAKIR: Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path.

So rather than offering redemption to the sinner or to the people of the book (Jews and christians), allah's book says they are swine. Shall I now quote the many verses from the Koran that say to kill the infidel? Do we need any more example than those of the true believers who closely follow the Koran by killing their religious enemies? The Bible never taught christians to do this, no matter what the pope said, but the Koran does teach this to the followers of Islam, and they follow it most perversely.

And the enemy we are fighting are devout haters of our culture and our society. I doubt your going to see Muslim extremist going out of their ways to understand our culture, or society. Public beheadings, blatant torture, and horrific executions. All in the name if their beliefs. I know their is alot wrong with this situation, but i'm in the opinion it's just hard to try to accept the current enemys way of life, when one of their main objective is to smash my current way of life.

Originally posted by centurion1211
No, just don't like it when people to try to defend the radical muslims while putting down the U.S.

Who exactly is defending radical Muslims? Am I defending radical Muslims because I point out people's hypocrisy?

Originally posted by centurion1211
just compare what the U.S. does to flag burners (anything?) to what muslims do to people they feel desicrate the koran (kill them).

Are we comparing the legal issues? Or are we comparing people's reactions?

I'm comparing reactions, because thats what this topic is getting. So clearly you are the one missing the point.

I said, people are claiming that there is nothing wrong with this soldier shooting the Quran, but those are the same people who have a problem with people burning the American flag.

Legal issues aside, both are a sign of disrespect and one is a shot at Muslims and the other is a shot at Americans.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Because we are civilized and they are still barbarians.

Riiiiight. We stage an event to get involved in a war for corporate profit and cause the deaths of over a million innocents - and we're civilized.

What ever you want to believe, buddy.

Well in your first link, the kids involved were kicked out of an Islamic school for doing it - which doesn't exactly help make your point, since it also obviously made the news

Anyway, this soldier was a jackass, and I'm sure after the flap he caused, his career is probably not in great shape.

Maj. Gen. Hammond seems to have handled the situation sensibly

And I think a great many of these posts sum up why we are still there in Iraq. War is supposed to be terrible, horrific and worst possible thing that can be imagined. Ideally a force would enter an area and not even a cricket would be left alive. It sould be so awful that all parties are willing to talk themselves to death to avoid it.

So a book was disrespected. I guess next people will want us to wipe our feet before invaiding their counrty? Or maybe they will ask for that after we have completed trillions of dollars in repairs to their infrastructure (and re-re-re-repairs since newly build schools and buildings are targets of opportunity).

But hey, if people want to volunteer to put daisys in their gun barrels to end the war the line starts at Kent State. Personally, I would rather we see total war and be done with it once and for all and let peace reign there after as opposed to this limited engagement "May I please return fire, sir?" that our forces must deal with today.

And that soldiers biggest mistake...getting caught. But on the bright sid maybe it will draw out those that need found and dealt with.