US Soldier Uses the Quran for Target Practice

Ignorance, plus racism is the worst mix there is. And from some posts here i can see there is an abundance of it. No holy book should be burned, shot etc.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Hell no, and I don't wish to pollute my mind with some backward archaic garbage about when it is pleasing to Allah to decapitate the infidel.

Maybe if you actually read it, you would see that it doesn't say anything like that. As I see it, your mind is already polluted with ignorance. Don't fear knowledge.

reply to post by DJMessiah



I can either read it, and come to my own conclusions, or I can watch and listen to those who study it and practice it's tenets.

It seems to me the second method is the one that reveals it's true nature.

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by DJMessiah

 

I can either read it, and come to my own conclusions, or I can watch and listen to those who study it and practice it's tenets.

It seems to me the second method is the one that reveals it's true nature.

That's the silliest bit of logic I've heard in a while. You would really pass up coming up with your own conclusions about a text because it's less work on your part?

That's like basing your entire knowledge of a Shakespeare by listening to lectures alone. If you want to know Hamlet, read Hamlet.

All that studying the followers will do is teach you how people of different cultures interpret and apply their understanding of the text. It doesn't' say a thing about the text itself. It's a study into sociology not literature.

I mean, there are cultures in South America that have dozens of people nailed to crosses and paraded through the streets. Does that tell you that the bible tells Christians to do that?

C'mon man, come to your own conclusions, please.

[edit on 3-6-2008 by Rasobasi420]

reply to post by Rasobasi420


Well, all I can say is that I believe what my eyes tell me. I have absolutely no desire to convert to Islam at all, therefore my interpretations would lack that certain..."fervor".

So, what can I do? Let my imagination run wild when I try to interpret a passage? Or should I observe what the "true practitioners" of Islam do?

Literature vs culture. How silly. Culture is what causes honor killings and limb amputations, not a book club discussion.

What is silly is your knee-jerk retort, Rasobasi.

Originally posted by jsobecky

So, what can I do? Let my imagination run wild when I try to interpret a passage? Or should I observe what the "true practitioners" of Islam do?

Literature vs culture. How silly. Culture is what causes honor killings and limb amputations, not a book club discussion.

No, you do what anyone studying a topic does. Look at it objectively, observe all involved factors and come to a conclusion on your own. Instead of watching Fox news (or CNN or MSNBC or whatever) and make the same snap judgments that everyone else does. Since Islam is the Qu'ran, read it and make your own observations. Accept how different cultures and individuals might interpret. Think about how you interpret it.

And don't worry, you won't be infected with Islam by reading the Qu'ran, but you may learn what the big fuss is about.

Now let me ask you,

Do you nail yourself to a cross at Christmas? Why? Not in your culture?

reply to post by jsobecky


You said you will study Islam by watching the actions of others? Does this include personally meeting Muslims and talking with them, or just what you see on Fox news?

Originally posted by jsobecky
Culture is what causes honor killings and limb amputations, not a book club discussion.

What culture, because it isn't Islamic? But I guess you wouldn't know that unless you even bothered to study it. When Muhammad taught Islam, he actually stopped honor killings.

[edit on 3-6-2008 by DJMessiah]

reply to post by Rasobasi420


reply to post by DJMessiah


The two of you are a riot. So defensive. So similar in your tactics: "Do you talk to real muslims or just what you see on Fox News?"

But I can understand why you do not want people to rely on the works and deeds of Islam to make a judgement. That is real life, and it isn't pretty. A book, otoh, can be interpreted many ways, and the words spun to make it sound beautiful and enlightening when in fact it stresses the opposite.

I use a combination of methods to make a decision. I don't just buy a car based upon what the manufacturer writes in their advertisement. I also talk to former and current owners. As you should do instead of blindly accepting the words in a book as someone has told you to accept them.

reply to post by jsobecky



Just curiously, should we start judging Christians and Jews by their deeds as well? If that is the case all three religions are a bunch of barbarians and need to be stopped ASAP. Forget about what Jesus taught us about peace, look at how those "Christians" protest soldier funerals and say God hates everybody because we love fags. I guess using your logic, all christians hate America, because god does.

You make me laugh becky. I can always count on your posts to give me that little lift I need in the day. Rational thought be damned...

By the logic displayed in this thread, by some, all christians should be peace loving folk who are good to each other, help those less fortunate and turn the other cheek to name but 4 parts of what christ taught.

Christians appear to be just as lacking in the qualities their holy book espouses as the islamic fundies they think they are somehow better than.

What utter shamefull hypocrisy.

Now we know why christ rose from the dead - he got dizzy from turning in his grave at what his "followers" have made of his teachings. (Copyright2008Budski )

BAH!

[edit on 4/6/2008 by budski]

[edit on 4/6/2008 by budski]

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by DJMessiah

 

I can either read it, and come to my own conclusions, or I can watch and listen to those who study it and practice it's tenets.

It seems to me the second method is the one that reveals it's true nature.

You know, I typically agree with you on many things. But this post shows a huge bit of ignorance on your part.

Two people can read the same literature and be inspired to two completely different ends, and also see two completely different stories being told.

For example, for every "islamofascist" there are 10 times as many "peaceful muslims".

Same goes for Christianity. I went to a rural farm based church growing up and heard nothing about hatred for homosexuals or pro-life rhetoric. All I heard was a message of hope from a close-knit community of farmers. Yet at the same time, I have friends who grew up catholic, or apostolic and are full of such self-hate that I can't believe it came from reading the same book I grew up with.

I'm sorry but your post really shows nothing more than short-sighted justification for generalized anger.

I think you are much more intelligent than that.

Originally posted by budski
Now we know why christ rose from the dead - he got dizzy from turning in his grave at what his "followers" have made of his teachings.



[edit on 4/6/2008 by budski]

Excellent literary device!


Thanks for the posting... I'll have to use that again at some point.

Originally posted by jsobecky
I don't just buy a car based upon what the manufacturer writes in their advertisement. I also talk to former and current owners. As you should do instead of blindly accepting the words in a book as someone has told you to accept them.

Is that what you do? You personally talk to Muslims? From your previous statement, you made it seem like you only view what Muslims do. So how many have you spoken with?

Islam, as I've personally found, has been the only religion that allows you to question every belief. Nothing is forced, because you learn everything in the Quran before you decide to join by your own free will. Everything is open and out there for you to read and study.

Using only one source of info to learn about something is well... not very wise. If a doctor only decided to watch surgeries instead of read about how to do them, and then claim "I already know what there is to know about surgery" would you really trust that doctor?

[edit on 4-6-2008 by DJMessiah]

reply to post by Rook1545

Originally posted by Rook1545
Just curiously, should we start judging Christians and Jews by their deeds as well?

You're asking me what you should do? Do what you want - I'm not your daddy. Just curious - have you decided which side of the Israeli/Palestine fence you're on yet?

Originally posted by Rook1545
I guess using your logic, all christians hate America, because god does.

Please - do not equate your inability to understand a concept with my logic.

reply to post by budski


Budski, next time wait until you have something to say before you post. Your typical Christian bashing drool is getting tedious.

reply to post by Quazga

Originally posted by Quazga

Originally posted by jsobecky

I can either read it, and come to my own conclusions, or I can watch and listen to those who study it and practice it's tenets.

It seems to me the second method is the one that reveals it's true nature.

You know, I typically agree with you on many things. But this post shows a huge bit of ignorance on your part.

Two people can read the same literature and be inspired to two completely different ends, and also see two completely different stories being told.

Thank you for (unwitttingly, I'm sure) making my point.


And to you, and all the rest here who are relating their own stories about Christianity...what makes you think I care?

Now, I can understand how you don't want to try to defend Islam. And that's why you must instead trash Christianity as a deflection.

But not a one of you know the source of my faith. Why are you being so presumptuous as to think you do?

Same as DJ and whats-his-face, with their "Fox News! Fox News!" chant. They have no idea how many sources I rely on for my information. They can only try to deflect the real issue by trying to associate me with Fox News.

Yet you all are so smug in your conclusions that you have prematurely jumped so blindly to. You live in fear of people exposing the soft underbelly of your beliefs. That is why you attack the person instead of the argument.

reply to post by jsobecky


Your particular brand of flag waving fascism became tiresome a long time ago.

The fact that you have to resort to insults just proves you can't refute the point I made.

I just love all these hate filled people masquerading as christians.

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by Rook1545

 

You're asking me what you should do? Do what you want - I'm not your daddy. Just curious - have you decided which side of the Israeli/Palestine fence you're on yet?

Not too sure how my "side" has anything to do with this topic, but anyway. I was asking if using the "logic" you have displayed, if that is how things would work.

Please - do not equate your inability to understand a concept with my logic.

Oh I can grasp concepts just fine, it is your logic that has a huge hole in it, but really I am not surprised.

If you want to judge one religion based on what its most fundamental followers do, it would be hypocritical not to judge them all the same way. If you can't grasp that, then there is no hope.


[edit on 4-6-2008 by Rook1545]

[edit on 4-6-2008 by Rook1545]

reply to post by budski

Originally posted by budski
Your particular brand of flag waving fascism became tiresome a long time ago.

Watch, folks. Right after he calls me a fascist, he'll whine that I insulted him. That's called hypocrisy, for those taking notes.

Originally posted by budski

The fact that you have to resort to insults just proves you can't refute the point I made.

See what I mean?

And Budski, what "points" have you made? Let's see, how did you put it...?

Now we know why christ rose from the dead - he got dizzy from turning in his grave at what his "followers" have made of his teachings. (Copyright2008Budski )

Grow up.

Originally posted by budski
I just love all these hate filled people masquerading as christians.

And I just laugh at thise who presume to know the faith of every member on the board.

reply to post by Rook1545

Originally posted by Rook1545

Not too sure how my "side" has anything to do with this topic, but anyway. I was asking if using the "logic" you have displayed, if that is how things would work.

Yes. Absolutely. Anyone who proclaims to follow and practice the tenets of a faith holds themselves up to judgement of their actions. Why would Christians be any different than muslims in that regard?

Next?