Grays; The Nephilim's circumventing devine law?

Let me preface this by stating that this is just a theory; one that presupposes a lot of other theories or faith-based beliefs to be true. None of which do I personally believe (or disbelieve).

I'll need help filling in the details but am confident that there are folks here that will have those items on hand, so thanks in advance. For example, one of my sources for this idea is the bible, and my memories are fuzzy at best, but I'm pretty sure what I describe can be found and cited by someone here.

I'm not sure if The Book of Enoch contradicts or expands on one of my main points here, but since it's a Nephilim related concept, I think there will be some helpful info from people who know The Book of Enoch.

SO... From what I remember the bible doesn't really go into too much detail about just how many Nephilim there were, and to what extent they affected the world. To clean up the mess, God killed everyone on the planet except for Noah's clan with flood waters. Now I can't recall how it was worded, but he then punished the fallen angels by *somehow making it so that they could no longer materialize as solid flesh in this realm*. This is the basis of my theory.

Doesn't it then say that the "evil spirits" begged to be allowed to enter the bodies of some nearby swine, who then promptly leap to their deaths, trapping the ghoulies to wander the earth bodiless until Judgment Day?

I think that "the Grays" could be a means of circumventing the "no bodies" clause that God put into effect in the laws of the Universe, if that's the way you look at things.

I don't, myself. BUT, there are lot's of folks here who theorize in a more... "Sitchinesque" way of thinking. See, I always had a problem with the Church's use of this imagery, and their interpretation seemed solely-fear based. It never made sense to me that if God was brilliant enough and powerful enough to create the universe, why would he give a damn if some of the ones that worshiped him on one tiny planet somewhere in a galaxy that someone in it would someday name after bovine mammary secretions were gay gentiles? ...Seemed like man creating god in his image, instead of the other way around, but I digress.

Many folks believe that these "demons" are the ones responsible for poltergeist, incubus/succubus activity, and possessions. Folklore describes people being visited by goblins in the night and taken to a castle in the sky. All this is nothing new, unless you think of it in lieu of my theory; that for centuries, some kind of extra-dimensional entities are manipulating things in this "realm". Possibly for the purpose of creating a physical workforce. Perhaps they can further whatever agenda they might have by farming physical bodies to inhabit, and taking over a matured human takes too much energy (they resist). To me, the description of a Gray looks a lot like a human fetus, perhaps one that has had it's growth accelerated to be a sufficient vessel for it's other-worldly puppeteer. Abductees have described seeing bodies floating in tanks during their encounters. Others have stated that the Grays move awkwardly, and it's been suggested that their bodies are just synthetic outer shells.

If you allow your scope of vision to accept the possibility of incubus/succubus folklore as having an extraterrestrial explanation, perhaps this is how the program started. Id you believe that these "demons" can cause poltergeist activity, actually manipulating objects in the physical realm, then with a little imagination, you can see how erm... 'Genetic' material might be ...Extracted from subject 'a', taken to the nearby village of subject 'b'; who is closely watched by, well, The Watchers until the offspring is healthy enough to be extracted, in the shimmery "castle in the sky". Perhaps this whole process took incredibly amounts of energy, what with the manifestation of female and male specters, the safe handling of 'genetic material' as it's carried over a distance. There's also a chicken/egg dilemma here, as well as the question, why not just abduct any fetus - why go through all the Succubus/Incubus crap? The only answer I can think of is genetics. Perhaps only certain types of humans have the traits needed to make this work. I dunno. I think the first few missions could have been delivered by "possessed" villagers, until they produced enough gray "goblins" to take over the physical operations.

I don't know why this makes sense to me, it's totally far-out sci-fi. I'm not saying I believe any of it, it just sort of works as an explanation to some of the mysteries associated with the UFO phenomenon. While at the same time raising more.

Anyway, I'm interested in what the rest of you think of my idea, and I'd be interested in hearing anything that anyone might be able to add to this idea in support of (or even against) it. Even if you think the idea is ridiculous, I'd like to hear anything you can think of, be it from scripture, sci-fi, Popular Skeptic or Blind-Believer magazines that might back it up.


Edit - Spelling


[edit on 5/17/2008 by Teratoma]

Hi, great post, i don't think this theory is less true than any other one available today, in fact i believe this one could even be more close to the truth than some others that talk about intergalactic wars and "star wars like" stuff.

I remember having an experience when i was about 3 to 4 years old, i was in the backyard with my brother who is two years older than i, we we're there playing when suddenly we heard a noise and turned around to see and there it was this creature like what is described as a gray, only very small i think about our on height, it was very odd looking and it just stared at us, we tried to run to the house but we could not move, and i remember feeling a lot of terror at the time and could not cry or anything else, but then something else happened that i can't remember and it all just went away, next day i did not care about what happened neither my brother, we remember this experience until now, more than 20 years later.

Somehow i have always feel protected since then, like somebody is watching over me, even sometimes i heard someone screaming at me, and when i turned around to see, something happens in front of me, something that could have happened to me if i kept walking.

Well, all this i think is related, seems like angels/demons things isn't it? this is my experience but i could be wrong, but i believe you may be closer to the truth here, except for some details, for instance, UFO evidence from ancient times, how the machines were built since they can't enter the material world, surely they would need help from human beings to build them at first, but, there wasn't tech as advanced as we have today, and even if they had the knowledge, the human tech to build them simply wasn't available, yet we have record of those sightings..

Also, if this is all true, and God has the power to forbid them to enter the material world, why is he allowing them to do this? does he doesn't care anymore? or maybe, we were left behind?

Anyway, i think this is really interesting, great post!

Kai

[edit on 17-5-2008 by Kaifan]

double that!
can you elaborate however...
so the cast downs=?
and the grays are considered here to be=?
sightings,angels/succubus/incubus activity =?

just to break it down

reply to post by Teratoma


Maybe what was referred to the Bible had nothing to do with earth and other places, or referring to ETs or not. Maybe it was about deciphering the who is who in the universal plain of existence. Ever pondered about those matters in this light?
Probably God would have in mind the possibility of human species being some day among the stars, why would He give testimony only about issues belonging to an ante space era? Then He would have to reveal us updates in his messages with another Bible for the post space era wouldn't He? Would these actions resemble the logic of a wise God?

[edit on 17-5-2008 by spacebot]

Originally posted by Kaifan

for instance, UFO evidence from ancient times, how the machines were built since they can't enter the material world, surely they would need help from human beings to build them at first, but, there wasn't tech as advanced as we have today, and even if they had the knowledge, the human tech to build them simply wasn't available, yet we have record of those sightings..

Also, if this is all true, and God has the power to forbid them to enter the material world, why is he allowing them to do this?

...This is the chicken/egg scenario I mention but didn't elaborate on. I suppose if I were to go out on a limb, I would propose that the 'demons', for lack of a better word, are looking for a way of getting back at the man upstairs, and they realize that the only chance they have is to affect something in the physical realm... I'll we can speculate on what that is, but let's say for the sake of this explanation that they do seem to be able to 'move things around' like furniture, silverware. There is record of people experiencing "demonic possession", which gives us the impression that they must have a reason for going into an existing human body. SO, perhaps these things consume a great deal more of their energy and concentration, and it was in it's early stages that these entities created the first ships, laboratories and underground bases. The grays are thought to have advanced technology and Psychic powers. Perhaps the onset of the whole shebang was a group of possessed alchemists who used "forbidden knowledge" to create the first empty, kidnapped human fetuses, who were mutated into 4 ft tall bodies that were strong enough to do tasks, had a developed enough nervous system to control a steady pair of hands, and had an enlarged, accelerated human brain, capable of all manner of telepathy and similar abilities.

I'm getting all sci-fi here, but this kind of answers your question of why god could forbid them to materialize, but why let them do this? One point in my theory is that, not to put any limitations on "god", but rather a greater separation between "the creator of all things" and who or whatever "created" man. The concept that a higher power "changed the universe" in such a way so that his fallen minions could no longer use one of their powers makes a lot less sense to me than the idea of their access to a certain kind of technology being taken away does. That's definitely one of the things I was hoping to hear ideas about. If ET or extra-dimensional technology was involved, the scriptures would make more sense, and so would a lot of the UFO phenomena. The incubus/succubus activity could have been the beginning, and the whole reason could be to create a workforce/army to manufacture technology that helps them achieve something in this realm.

There are some others here on ATS that are more familiar with these ideas, and I hope they post. This is nothing new really, except the gray body=human fetus thing... That's mine, and as much as I hope it's not true, I just can't shake the idea lol.

so the cast downs=?
and the grays are considered here to be=?
sightings,angels/succubus/incubus activity =?

Well, the cast downs would be extradimensional, Anunaki, beings... I don't think in terms of God/Devil/Angels/Demons... The bible was worded the way it was to reach the people of the time... It had to be updated to make sense to people in the future, but since no one could agree on how to update it, it was compromised. A word here a phrase there and soon the meaning is lost in translation. Then [INSERT MEMBER OF ANY CHURCH HERE] says, "But god wouldn't let his word get diluted, just join my church and all will be well." that would be fine, except for the very notion that conflict does exist. COMPROMISED. ...Anyway, those dudes, whoever they were, they went against the plan. They polluted the gene pool with their instantly materialized human suits, which were to be used for messenger service alone, apparently.

Their offspring were soulless "giants" perhaps not literally but they were Nephilim and some were Pharaohs. The bible is not too clear on their numbers, or just how widespread they were, it just says that it was enough for god to ponder his creation as a mistake, and decide to drown everyone.
This is where Sitchinites and the like get the concept of the bible being strictly a story about the DNA of man. That perhaps we are an experiment, and the "Great Flood" was an attempt to reset the planet's ecosystem. That Noah's ark wasn't actually full of pairs of every animal on the planet, but could've had enough room for it's DNA.

So, cast-downs = rogue scientists who mucked up the experiment in the first place... Fired from their jobs and no longer have access to the "body-materialiser" machine.
Grays = human bodies kidnapped from the womb, grown into suitable vessels for the "cast-downs" to use to get around not having bodies, or access to the body-materialiser.
Sightings = the above going about their business.
Angels= I don't know, but what most people describe as angelic activity seems to fall outside of anything I mention here.
Incubus/succubus activity = if it still happens, and the above is true then perhaps they just don't have any other recourse than to do it "the old-fashioned way" lol ...Or maybe they're honing their skills, or just get some kind of ghoulish thrill... It's often said that they "feed" off fear and emotions... When you look at any amount of paranormal activity and try to figure out "why"... Well, you usually come away without an answer.

[edit for spelling/grammar/punctuation]

[edit on 5/17/2008 by Teratoma]

the possession thing is ...confusing at best, but my current theory is that they are similar in effect to the Goa'uld of Stargate SG-1. They inhabit cloned grey -reptilian bodies, human bodies, or animals as last ditch survival effort. When the serpent in the garden lost his legs, i believe it meant he was removed from the host body he was inhabiting at th time, which i believe was a cloned grey-reptilian hybrid. His Eden incarnation was Enki (which identifies him as the god of the earth). Later incarnations were Nimrod (Enmerkar of Akkadian lore, Osiris and Narmer of Egyptian Lore), the King of Tyre (mentioned in Ezekiel), and several others down through history.

reply to post by undo


Hi Undo, thanks for posting! So, do you think that the taking away of the "fallen ones'" ability to generate a physical body is important here? To me it suggests the use of some kind of physical technology. It suggests a reason for their having to "possess" (though not as much a reason why), and could explain the "grays" physical appearance.

Many folks believe the grays to be clones, but clones of what? The term "clone" presupposes an "original". I could go along with them being purely manufactured, but it seems like they'd make them, I dunno, taller? I think perhaps they're all "hybrids", or maybe just "mutants", and that they may be mostly human physically, and that they are manufactured/farmed underground or on ships with no "souls", empty avatars for extra-dimensional entities. Kinda like a cross between the aliens from Alien and the "skin-jobs from the new Battlestar Galactica.

reply to post by Teratoma


When you talk about the Judeo-Christian Bible, are you looking at it as an historical document? Do you consider it to be equally valid to any other bible/belief system?

How do you differentiate between what you think are factual accounts of events, allegories, passion plays, etc.? I'm curious why, for example, the Nephilim material is looked upon by some as more than mythology, while Jonah and the Whale isn't.

reply to post by Jeremy_Vaeni


Good question. I think that some bible stories are historical events, and I think some are metaphors, and I think some are both. I think that we may never know which are which, because the bible was translated and re-translated by men; dudes with agendas. Also, throughout history tremendous effort has been made to strike any 'paranormal' events from the official historical record, so it's almost impossible to compare the histories of different regions, religions and belief systems.

So, in short answer - yes; I think it's just as valid, but I think the others have also lost a great deal of their factual detail to translation/interpretation. I'm not a christian, other than the whole "do-unto-others" bit. I think of the bible as a teaching tool that has been twisted and misused abhorrently along it's journey from then-to-now and East-to-West. I think that "The Creator of All Things" and the Hebrew god are two distinctly different things, and if the bible was influenced by either of the two it was the latter. Or it was just written by men. Or the Hebrew god was a man. With advanced technology. Would explain why they give him such petty, human-like traits. Say, what's that thunder I hear outside?

Sadly there are just so many untruths mixed in with the truths on this subject that its very hard to figure out whats what i feel the fall happened but not entirely in the way the bible describes and i feel they have managed to find flesh to incarnate into and are somehow trying to "cheat" us out of something they feel is rightfully theirs and that if we knew our true history and the role they played in it we would not be so easily manipulated. does anyone else get the feeling that they are on a level BELOW us and not as some would believe more advanced than we are?


they may be sneaky and have a certain devious wit but they feel more like annoying mosquitoes trying to ruin a nice picnic to me now. i dont fully understand what my intuition tells me but its something like they want us to focus so much on everything wrong with the world and make us feel its hopeless in order to stop us realizing our full potential and striving towards what we could be by getting us too caught up in our own ego and greed so that we miss some big opportunity in the future


Am i alone in the feeling that it all boils down to jealousy? could an entire failed race be so cruel and spiteful over such a petty childish emotion? or is there more to the story than we remember? too many questions not enough answers. but ive noticed that a lot of black magic is designed to weaken the defenses and make the human much more easy to possess and ive also noticed that people need to vibrate at a very low (negative) vibration in order to communicate to these sorts of entities clearly and that tells me a lot about their nature and intentions

well the confusing part comes in with the separation of "demon" from "fallen angel". they don't appear to be synonmous and for that reason, i didn't believe the fallen angels possessed in the sense of spiritual possession, more like genetic change. whereas demons are more like disembodied spirits looking for a host. that's the best way i can think to describe it.

Originally posted by HuntaXX
... i feel they have managed to find flesh to incarnate into and are somehow trying to "cheat" us out of something they feel is rightfully theirs.

From this, it sounds to me like you at least agree that some kind of "disembodied" entities have interest in occupying physical bodies in this 'realm'. And you think they have done so. I can only assume that you're talking about the 'reptilian shapeshifter' types, who many think exist in our society.

It sounds to me like you're dismissing the account of the 'fallen ones' having had their ability to 'materialize' taken away as perhaps a metaphor. I'm willing to go along with that, but it seems important to me for some reason, like it was an actual event. It screams 'technology' at me; a technology that they lost access to.

Perhaps someone can verify - is there mention of 'possession' before this happens in the bible? Perhaps your belief and my theory are compatible; and the 'workforce' I describe was necessary for creating a genetic bloodline that would be easier for them to influence, and/or 'possess'.

Are they more advanced? I can only look at it from limited perspectives, but maybe I can explain. They've existed for at least as long as mankind has, and according to 'inspired scripture', much longer. Of course, time is thought to exist in another format in their realm, or possibly it doesn't exist at all. They are said to have supernatural powers, and it is said that they shared some of their 'forbidden knowledge' with man. Was this merely technology and scientific know-how from an advanced race?

And even if that's all it is, 'advancement' is just relative. Perhaps they're more advanced at building spaceships, stargates and cloning machines, but are absolute retards when it comes to interacting with other species. Maybe they're at exactly the same "stage" in development as humans, X degrees from an amoeba, but the differences in our physical make-up and environments caused them to figure out quantum physics at the same time we were carving our first wheel. Perhaps our sense of compassion and common good is more developed than theirs as a result of these differences.

I'm merely trying to put it in perspective. It's impossible to assume anything, with what little we know or have been told. We're expected to believe that god's minions, perfect spirit creatures were jealous of how much attention god was giving his new creation. Oh, that, and also these perfect creatures were also perverts who couldn't control themselves around their boss' creation, so they gave up everything they had in the heavenly realm just for some interspecies nooky? I can see why you think 'the fall' didn't happen the way it says in the bible.

I think they are more advanced, in that they know almost everything there is to know about the physics of this 'dimension'. That doesn't mean that they're any 'better'. Enslaving someone is not the same as understanding them.

Originally posted by undo
well the confusing part comes in with the separation of "demon" from "fallen angel".

...I was always taught that all 'demons' were once god's angels. You may have noticed though, that I don't care much for what I was always taught. Truth is I never did, which is why I may sound cynical and perhaps volatile at times.

What you're saying makes sense - like what I stated above, we're expected to believe that once these perfect spirit creatures decided to disagree with god - for whatever reason - they instantly became 'evil incarnate', with nothing but 100% malice in their intentions? Every single one of them? No, that sounds to me like a biblical scribe, given the responsibility of warning good christians against making deals with unseen spirits deciding it would be too hard to explain, so he just painted the whole lot of them evil, not to be trusted.

Well Gilgamesh was post flood. according to the Epic of Gilgamesh, he was 2/3rds god (a nephilim hybrid). he could access gate technology and survive it. if this is true, then other leaders in Earth's history have had similar access. However, here's where another problem arises. It seems to me (and this could just be a problem of measuring time) that the gates were all locked, as it wasn't a very popular decision to reopen the Babel gate in the Tower of Babel story. In fact, the "tower" (which appears to be a ziggurat modelled after Enki's original, floating, flying city) was repeatedly destroyed, any time someone attempted to rebuild it. Then, per my theory that Nimrod made off with the Nibru gate and took it to Abydos, and then was killed shortly after, the Nibru gate was also locked and buried. I could be wrong on that, however. You get the sense that something big has been going on for a very long time... and if this is the case, then perhaps the only gates of any lasting consequence are the big Abzu now buried in the Euphrates and the Babel gate.. the fate of which I have no knowledge of.

reply to post by Teratoma


i believe demons were disembodied spirits of the nephilim, who among their many titles, were referred to as unresurrectable because they were neither angel or human. in fact, in the Epic of Gilgamesh you see him mourning over his dilemma as he has just seen his clone, Enkidu, die and the "worm crawl out of his nose." He realizes he is not immortal like his progenitors, and it is this that provides the impetus for his gate journey to visit the supposed Noah figure in "paradise."

Originally posted by undo
Well Gilgamesh was post flood. according to the Epic of Gilgamesh, he was 2/3rds god (a nephilim hybrid). he could access gate technology and survive it. if this is true, then other leaders in Earth's history have had similar access.

At one point in trying to come up with a theory, I thought that perhaps my "body materializer" was just a gate, and that god's forbidding them to materialize was actually just a locking of the gate. I guess this is still a possibility, though the feeling I get more and more is that they are two different types of devices. It does seem to me that we're talking about a "race" of beings, either from another dimension, or somehow with access to multi-dimensions. It seems that they may have created us, or participated in our creation process. It seems that somewhere along the line, there was dissenting in their ranks, over abuse of our DNA. At some point, it was decided that all means of contact between our realm and theirs be made 'illegal'. Gates were locked, and mankind was told many horror stories about what happens when you look behind the curtains. Say no to drugs.

interesting you should mention two different types of devices.
the other possible device is a teleporter that resembles the
"backbone of osiris" (the four sons of horus, stacked atop each
other), called the djed column in egyptian lore. of course, this is
borrowing heavily from stargate sg-1's ring device, but they borrowed
it from the egyptians. the pyramid texts associated with it claim
it raises the pharaoh into the heavens.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Teratoma

 

i believe demons were disembodied spirits of the nephilim,

Ok, so the ones who begged to enter the swine - were they ex-nephilim, or were they the fallen angels who fathered them? It makes sense that the hybrid spirits would be more malevolent, as that's how they acted when they lived. But if this is the case, then where do the 'fallen ones' reside now? And where do they stand with 'god' today?

I was taught that the nephilim were mortals and they were destroyed in the flood. And that as far as spirit creatures go, you're either God, Jesus, Satan, an angel or a demon. No room for shady gray areas, even though as a 'demon' you were once a 'perfect' angel. Even human beings have more depth than that, so something somewhere is lacking some info.

reply to post by Teratoma


"From this, it sounds to me like you at least agree that some kind of "disembodied" entities have interest in occupying physical bodies in this 'realm'. And you think they have done so. I can only assume that you're talking about the 'reptilian shapeshifter' types, who many think exist in our society"

Well if you shorten 'reptilian shapeshifter' to just "'shapeshifter' we would be in agreement. ive come to the conclusion that this whole reptilian thing is just another layer of deception.

"It sounds to me like you're dismissing the account of the 'fallen ones' having had their ability to 'materialize' taken away as perhaps a metaphor"

not really, i just think their ability to become physical became more limited and i would focus on the word "materialize" as meaning they cant do it easily and at will and as such have to look towards other methods...

"Perhaps someone can verify - is there mention of 'possession' before this happens in the bible? Perhaps your belief and my theory are compatible; and the 'workforce' I describe was necessary for creating a genetic bloodline that would be easier for them to influence, and/or 'possess'."

well i wouldn't call them beliefs so much as having an open mind to the possibility especially since ive seen a fair bit of evidence to support genetic purity among these royal families and a family tradition of black magic, sacrifice, and channeling making it seem like a logical explanation to me and until i see a better one thats the one ill focus on the most

"They are said to have supernatural powers"

as do we but a vast majority of us are ignorant of these abilities. i avoid black magic and demons so i cant say this for sure but sometimes i suspect they take their power from US as i believe the human race has far more potential power than they do

I should point out what i consider to be an important point. the word god in the bible used to say godS and long ago anything beyond our understanding was called a god. on the grand scale of creation the true god (the source of light and creation) is so far beyond incarnating in physical form just for us that you may find the bible makes sense if you swap god for gods and gods for "mysterious alien race"

Well the story goes like this:

Enlil saved the humans.
Enki saved the nephilim.

These were their creations.
When you read stories like "Enki and Ninmah", you get the impression that Enki created us. I do not believe this is true. My theory is something like this:

Prior to human habitation on this planet, there was a world wide civilization that grew to maturity, developed advanced technology and spread out into the solar system and beyond. This was what is referred to by Dake (bible scholar) as the angelic dispensation, the time of testing for the beings referred to in biblical texts as angels. There was a major war, in which 1/3rd of these angels tried to fight a war against the other 2/3rds and God. It sounds as if it was interplanetary war. It wreaked havoc on this planet, pretty much wiping out everything, which is depicted as an ice age.

The 1/3rd who had fallen, returned to this planet to rebuild the civilization. But they grew tired of the labor and complained heavily to their elected leader, who was known in sumerian texts as Enki. Enki had only recently returned from another planet where he encountered humans, living a carefree and unrestricted life, which he viewed as uncivilized. He saw here the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone and started shipping us from that planet, to this one. This was done through 7 gates, which is symbollized in the text as "7 birth goddesses"

So in essence, I don't believe Enki created us, merely brought us here as slave labor. The nephilim were created afterwards, to deal with our burgeoning population growth rate.