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Obese blamed for the world's ills

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posted on May, 18 2008 @ 12:08 AM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


MMMmmm...real food.

People up north always scream about how southern cooking is so unhealthy. Gravy and fried stuff, big hunks of fat back. But I see an awful lot of southern folk who eat that way all the time and are perfectly healthy.

My guess would be, that it all comes down to eating NATURAL foods. If you're deep frying in natural animal fats, your body can process it the way the body is designed to. Southern cooking may be unhealthy by some standards, but I don't see anything wrong with it, so long as your ingredients are local. Not to mention the fact that southerners actually eat a more balanced diet than the stereotype. Collards are good for you, beans, peas, you know the drill.

I have also heard that in South America "everything" is deep-fried but that they don't have an obesity problem. And look at France. Everything is creams and cheeses over there. How often do you see a fat Frenchie?




posted on May, 18 2008 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by BlasteR
 


It's good advice, but I am a lost cause. I have already been sucked into the abyss. I am homeless at present, and therefore very far from having the means to prepare for tomorrow not even being able to survive today. I happen to be one of those people who has little choice but to raid the dollar menu when I've got a few bucks. I don't even have refrigeration now that warm weather is here.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by BlasteR
 


There was a guy who tried to get into the Army when my brother joined. They wouldn't take him because he was too heavy. Rock solid muscle. Not to the point of being grotesqe, but a real bonecrusher nonetheless. Army wouldn't take him, and he was one of the healthiest people I've ever known.


Yeah that's friggin ridiculous. The system they have in place completely contradicts all forms of logic. It's like Arnold Schwarzenneger being rejected by the military in his prime because he weighs too much compared to his height. There would have been no predator or commando
! I mean how friggin stupid is that?

It's basically a form of default judgement. Your Intelligence/IQ, out the window. Your strength and muscle mass, out the window. Your dedication to your country out the window, and even though they can see that you are cut-up like a body builder and aren't fat at all noone cares.


I'm one of the lucky ones that never had to deal with all that fortunately.

-ChriS

[edit on 18-5-2008 by BlasteR]



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 12:47 AM
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Someone who was once starved can later become fat easily once he/she can start eating again. The metabolism changes because the body senses the starvation and slows down. It never becomes the same.

Stress can also cause someone to become fat and stay fat. The stress hormone was previously mentioned in this thread. It can become quite the catch 22 really. You lose your job and become stressed over bills. You then gain weight. Then you stress trying to lose the weight, but because you're stressing over losing the weight, the body releases more stress hormone causing you to gain even more weight. Can become quite the vicious cycle. And a lot of people have quite a bit to be stressed over these days.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 12:53 AM
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This is by far the most ridiculous claim I have come across on ATS. I don't even care to point out all the problems I have with this!




posted on May, 18 2008 @ 01:42 AM
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reply to post by Jessicamsa
 



Someone who was once starved can later become fat easily once he/she can start eating again.


You know, I never really thought of that, despite the fact that I literally almost starved to death in my teens. I was dangerously skinny due to lack of money for food. All I ate was bread slices pretty much. Sometimes toasted with some butter and sugar. I was, quite literally, less than one third the weight I am today. Friends actually started calling me "the fatman" as I got back up to a normal weight from the walking bones that I was.



[edit on 5/18/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 02:05 AM
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Originally posted by BlasteR

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by BlasteR
 


There was a guy who tried to get into the Army when my brother joined. They wouldn't take him because he was too heavy. Rock solid muscle. Not to the point of being grotesqe, but a real bonecrusher nonetheless. Army wouldn't take him, and he was one of the healthiest people I've ever known.


Yeah that's friggin ridiculous. The system they have in place completely contradicts all forms of logic. It's like Arnold Schwarzenneger being rejected by the military in his prime because he weighs too much compared to his height. There would have been no predator or commando
! I mean how friggin stupid is that?

It's basically a form of default judgement. Your Intelligence/IQ, out the window. Your strength and muscle mass, out the window. Your dedication to your country out the window, and even though they can see that you are cut-up like a body builder and aren't fat at all noone cares.


I'm one of the lucky ones that never had to deal with all that fortunately.

-ChriS

[edit on 18-5-2008 by BlasteR]


I think you have it wrong. Any branch of the military would not turn down a man who is ripped.. I have a few friends in the military, Navy, marine and army who are 5'8" and weigh almost 210 all of them were wrestlers and all of them are solid, but the key is that they are also intelligent. I could see the military no taking someone who does not pass the intelligence tests they give before you sign on the dotted line. I don't blame them for wanting people who are smart enough to tie their own shoes. However; they don't want big guys who are stupid, whether fat or heavily muscled they would be a severe risk/liability to those around them. We should not point our fingers and call unfair simply because they have certain standards that some people don't meet. And anyone who is overweight and intelligent enough to get in will quickly slim down in basic training, that is one of the reasons they have it, to get people into fighting shape.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by Stumpy1
I think you have it wrong. Any branch of the military would not turn down a man who is ripped.. I have a few friends in the military, Navy, marine and army who are 5'8" and weigh almost 210 all of them were wrestlers and all of them are solid, but the key is that they are also intelligent. I could see the military no taking someone who does not pass the intelligence tests they give before you sign on the dotted line. I don't blame them for wanting people who are smart enough to tie their own shoes. However; they don't want big guys who are stupid, whether fat or heavily muscled they would be a severe risk/liability to those around them. We should not point our fingers and call unfair simply because they have certain standards that some people don't meet. And anyone who is overweight and intelligent enough to get in will quickly slim down in basic training, that is one of the reasons they have it, to get people into fighting shape.


The air force requires the highest scores on the asvab if I remember correctly. The military has an equation that they use. They take your height, your weight, and using those numbers they calculate what your body fat should be. If you are above that then you are told to lose weight in a certain timeframe. If you don't then they separate you.

If you are over a certain weight, depending on your height, then it doesn't matter what your body fat actually is. I've worked with people who were simply built big. They weren't fat or overweight but simply were big people. But because of their height the AF didn't care. Body fat isnt the only determining factor of whether or not you meet their standards. Every once in a while we had to do periodic fitness tests. They tested your heartrate, pulse, how many pushups and situps you could do in 2 minutes I think, and monitored all of it in a computer. Even if these people were capable of passing all of those tests and weren't unhealthy the body weight vs height still trumped all that and they couldn't meet the Air Force's weight standards.

You can be chubby and still be within their required limits. But you can also be cut and muscled-up and not be. They don't just consider your body fat alone, that's what I'm really getting at. There are all these other factors that may or may not even have anything to do with your overall health.

Not to change the subject from the thread topic..

Also, in basic training (at least when I went through in 1997) the Air Force had specific numbers for males and females for how many pushups, situps, and time was required in the 2 mile run. Intelligence had nothing to do with it. Some people had a hard time, we helped out those people however we could and pressed on. When it finally came time to pass the final fitness exam you had to at least meet the required minimum limit for each. If you couldn't, you were given another chance on the spot and if you failed yet again you were recycled. Recycling sends people back to the first day of basic training in the AF. I don't know how it is in the other branches.


-ChriS

[edit on 18-5-2008 by BlasteR]



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 02:30 AM
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Originally posted by deadline527
*snip*
Obese people should be taxed accordingly, since yes they do use up more resources. Not just fuel, but medically they are costing the country by thinking their horrible health and bad eating habits is something they should be proud of. It would also provide incentive for them to exercise more, and atleast TRY to lose the extra weight.
*snip*
Obesity is dangerous physically, mentally, and emotionally. We should as a country try to HELP those who are obese, not encourage it.


First of all, I am taxed accordingly. One look at my crocery bill will tell you that I pay more than the average person when I purchase groceries. Also, if I use more fuel, well... I pay for that, too. I haven't had a significant doctor bill for myself in over 10 years, actually went to the doctor alot more when I was in better physical shape because I was playing football at the time and between that and weight lifting I was constantly banged up. I'm neither proud nor ashamed of the way I eat... it just is what it is. I have a hot wife, a couple beautiful children, and a stressful job that rarely gives me a chance to actually sit down and savor a salad or pick at a plate of tofu.

My mental state and emotional state are absolutely fine, thank you. I'd say a person who obseses over their own or someone else's weight is the one with the emotional and mental instabillity, actually. I also think there's a pretty strong indicator of some mental and emotional distress inside of people who openly hate on someone based purely on whether or not they fit into their tiny little window of a "normal" or "healthy" physique. The pure and simple fact is, a person's weight is no better an indicator of their overall health than their height is. Barring someone who is morbidly obese, most people who fall outside the so-called "healthy" BMI actually have lower medical bills and live as long if not longer than a thinner person.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 03:46 AM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by metro

I have also never met a fat person who was healthy. Some thin people may stay thin eating unhealthy, but I can guarantee you that it won't last for long.


Can I get some more info on that guarantee? Is it money-back, satisfaction, or what? I might want to file a claim with you.

I'm well into my 40s, and have been slim or skinny all my life. That despite the fact I consider grease to be one of the major food groups, and look at cholesterol as a good thing (last check, mine was 361; I'm working to get it up). I have had high blood pressure my entire life, and I work driving a truck, which means long hours sitting motionless behind that wheel and eating things that were never really intended for human consumption. I dearly love my Baconators, and have ate 8 Big Macs at a single sitting.

Now, what were the terms of that guarantee?

TheRedneck


I really wonder how fast it would take you to sprint a 200m.
Or perhaps better yet, how well you could do in a stamina test. I can see why you don't move very much.

I mean, you are thin (Or at least you like to think you are) and therefore healthy. There are definitely no adverse consequences associated with such a lifestyle as yours.

What tripe.

You must realize that you do not have long to live right? You have probably cut out 20-30 years of your life. And people say smoking is bad.
But I guess that quality of life you live, driving that truck and all, reflects accurately on your diet and respect for your body. I'd like to say that you've found the Ancient American Secret to Long Life With No Hard Work, but unfortunately, I'm not one to dress up a piece of crap and sell it to you as a Baconator. Wendy's seems to do that to you enough.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 04:16 AM
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I'm sorry I didn't read every post in this thread, my argument might have been mentioned already.


Originally posted by Extralien

Obese blamed for the world's ills


news.bbc.co.uk
They are also responsible for using more fuel, which has an environmental impact and drives up food prices as transport and agriculture both use oil.


It seems people have more desires these days. In old times a factory worker would probably not think he could own a luxury car which only the rich would have. He might have seen one but figured it is not something he could ever earn being a lowclass worker. Nowadays media is telling us we can get and do all sorts of things, we're no longer in the dark ages - do whatever you want. Our desires to do so is what is causing demand.

It shouldn't be who is responsible for using more fuel, it should be about those using fuel irresponsibly, for example people who use private jets. They should abolish those and make the owners take business class instead. Force people to use a bycicle or walk for short distances, force people to use public transportation for work-home travelling.

To make things fair for everyone, if we are going to be chipped in the future (I believe it's inevitable every citizen's information will be digitalized at some point) we should ration the amount of miles a person can travel as well as ration food. Use public transportation and you get more miles. You want to use a car that gives you a high status but also has high fuel consumption, ok but you can't drive a lot with it compared to someone owning a less fuel consuming car (but probably also a less-attractive car). That, and moving away from the throwaway culture we are (plastic is also made from oil) to a recycling culture, should improve a lot of things.

With so many people, worldpopulation growing and the fact we all influence eachother on this globe (our decisions affect one another) sooner or later our freedoms will diminish.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by metro

I really wonder how fast it would take you to sprint a 200m.
Or perhaps better yet, how well you could do in a stamina test. I can see why you don't move very much.


I pass the USDOT physical every two years. I meditate a bit before the blood pressure test to get it down to passing.


I mean, you are thin (Or at least you like to think you are) and therefore healthy.


6'-2", 180 pounds, as I mentioned before. And it has nothing to do with my health, which is also just fine and dandy.


You must realize that you do not have long to live right? You have probably cut out 20-30 years of your life.


I wish I had a dollar for every time someone has told me that. Quite a few of them have been doctors. Quite a few of those are dead.



But I guess that quality of life you live, driving that truck and all, reflects accurately on your diet and respect for your body.


Ah. so you have something against truck driving? Well, what can I say? It's my job, and one I have to do. I wonder how long you would survive doing it? I wonder how long you would survive without people like me doing it?

I still haven't heard any details on that guarantee. What do I get should I outlive you? Or is this simply another incorrect unsubstantiated opinion thinly disguised as fact? If you want to believe the real tripe that's flowing off my screen form your post, feel free. But please don't spread rumor as fact; Bush & Co. is doing that more than enough for everyone right now. At least he's good at it.

Please be a bit patient with me on answering what I am sure will be a great revelation. You see, I have to go and destroy myself in order to deliver the goods that you use.
And pick up a Baconator...

TheRedneck



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by Dragonfly79
You seem to be pretty unconcerned about the removal of freedom. How sad. But understandable.

There is no shortage of resources. We have the same amount of water, for instance, that we have ever had. Less of it is potable, but that's due to pollution (not CO2) running rampant and unregulated by companies large enough to afford to pay off corrupt EPA officials.

There are more trees now than there were when Columbus discovered the place. Also more deer. Some species have dwindled, like the wolves or cougars, but they are not exactly a resource for mankind. We could be seen as more of a resource for them.


Fuel is not in short supply. Refining ability may well be, but that is due to a lack of new refineries, which is attributable to government regulations and prohibitive artificial costs (such as a couple million for a survey with no promise of return).

Food is becoming in short supply. I don't think it would be if farmers were not paid by the government to not grow crops. I don't think there would be a shortage if we did not use food for fuel in the form of ethanol. I doubt there would be a shortage if food was not stockpiled (and quite often destroyed) in some misguided governmental attempt to artificially hold up prices. In short, any shortage we have is artificial rather than based on population.

Global Warming has now been thoroughly debunked as a myth. South Pole sea ice is at the highest level ever recorded. No global change in temperature was reported between 1998 and 2006, and a global decrease was reported in 2007. So carbon dioxide is not out of control, and the planet will probably not become uninhabitable in the near future.

What is out of control is the media, as you mentioned. Yet they sell us more than luxury gas-guzzling cars. They sell us propaganda. Beware that you do not buy into this propaganda, as it is more insidious and destructive than all the Escalades and Hummers combined.

TheRedneck



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 09:37 AM
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Fat people do hoard food, yes. Are they the problem with the world today? No. Society as a whole is the problem. SUV's with HEMI's that get 10 to the gallon are the problem. People that think the bottom line is more important that their kids are the problem.

Fat people are funny though.

youtube.com...



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by Stumpy1
 



I think you have it wrong. Any branch of the military would not turn down a man who is ripped.. I have a few friends in the military, Navy, marine and army who are 5'8" and weigh almost 210 all of them were wrestlers and all of them are solid, but the key is that they are also intelligent.


Actually, you are mistaken. The person in question was of average intelligence and did very well in school. Well enough to go on to be a teacher in fact, after being turned down by the Army.

The fact of the matter is, that this man was rejected strictly on the basis that he was overweight for his height. As far as those who you know that are ripped and in the military, I will suggest that they took on that form after Basic. The recruiter basically told this young man that this was true. That he had to drop all of the weight, but could build up again after he was in. I don't think I have to point out how un-healthy that actually is.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


I can guarantee you anything you want.

But it is highly doubtful you will outlive me, thats for sure. I don't understand people like you who have zero respect for your body, throwing it off balance so much with such disregard. I could cite many clinical studies on the effects of diet, and not all have to do with being fat. Like I said, you don't have to be fat to be unhealthy. It's a shame you actually think you are healthy. If that isn't delusional I don't know what is.

But whatever, it's your choice. More power to you. When you need that inevitable bypass, don't blame anyone but yourself.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 02:32 PM
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To add to the military turndown issue being discussed. It's all up to the 80 year olds at MEPS. They are usually retired doctors looking to see young men naked. Sadly it seems that way. I have seen guys get turned down for being 1 pound over. I have seen people get a waver for 10 pounds. It's all up to the doctor you get that handles your paperwork. I have never seen someone not get a bodyfat test once they show up over their weight class. More often than not these days kids are actually underweight entering them military. Anyway, in any modern bootcamp you WILL lose that excess fat, fatty.

One tubby tubby,
Two tubby tubby,
Three tubby tubby......


[edit on 18-5-2008 by Ragnarok691]



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by Ragnarok691
To add to the military turndown issue being discussed. It's all up to the 80 year olds at MEPS. They are usually retired doctors looking to see young men naked. Sadly it seems that way. I have seen guys get turned down for being 1 pound over. I have seen people get a waver for 10 pounds. It's all up to the doctor you get that handles your paperwork. I have never seen someone not get a bodyfat test once they show up over their weight class. More often than not these days kids are actually underweight entering them military. Anyway, in any modern bootcamp you WILL lose that excess fat, fatty.

One tubby tubby,
Two tubby tubby,
Three tubby tubby......
[edit on 18-5-2008 by Ragnarok691]


Exactly. Most people have no problem meeting the required limits for pushups and situps, etc. We had one guy who had trouble with pushups so we all helped coach him off and on in spare time. When it came time for the test at the end of basic training he passed as well as all of us. The limits they have in place aren't astronomical. I think it was something like 25 pushups in 2 minutes for a girl, 35 for a guy? I'm just guessing because I can't remember exactly. It was 11 years ago
I ended up doing 72 on my final but we had some guy who did like 135 (RIDICULOUS)

We didn't do a whole lot of physical training but when we did it wasn't exactly easy. They fed you really good too. I lost like 16 pounds in basic somehow (air force basic is 6 weeks).

My step-brother just finished up basic at Lackland and is taking a bus out to Tech School to be a linguist. He was having a hard time originally. He even called home crying a couple weeks ago
. The really testing part about the AF basic training is the attention to detail that is required. They really mess with your .. Before he shipped out I gave him all the secret tips for cleaning the dorm room etc. so he was prepared. If some guy didn't have those secrets in my flight we would've had a ridiuculous time.

[edit on 18-5-2008 by BlasteR]



posted on May, 19 2008 @ 07:19 AM
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reply to post by deadline527
 


The question is were do you make the line. When is someone just a little heavy or obese. Do you use body mass index which we know make body builder considered to be obese.



posted on May, 19 2008 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint
 



I think your premise is sound it is just the numbers in each category that need some daylight...



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