Obese blamed for the world's ills, page 2
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 5 times


reply posted on 17-5-2008 @ 01:36 AM by Stumpy1
Originally posted by loam
reply to post by TheRedneck


No kidding.

I'd like to see a comparison of their numbers to the vast amount of food that wastes away because the government pays farmers not to sell certain crops they actually grow...or to the amount of food routinely discarded in nearly every restaurant on the planet...or to the amount of energy wasted to light up nearly every commercial building, the skylines of cities and the highways of the industrialized world.




The government does not pay the farmers not to sell they food they grow. They pay the farmers not to grow the crops at all. They pay these farmers to let their fields lay fallow. I think that that is a very stupid thing to do.


reply posted on 17-5-2008 @ 01:41 AM by jackinthebox
reply to post by sc2099


How is taxing people and further lowering their income and thereby reducing their means to buy healthier food helping them?


Indeed. It is well known that obesity is most prevelant here in the US, in states with the highest poverty levels. Not that all poor people are fat, or that everyone who is financially stable is skinny, but there are many other factors to include as well.

However the most prevelant reason for obesity, does happen to be directly related to economics and poverty. Even if it just the fear of poverty that leads people to work eighteen hours a day, seven days a week, fueled energy drinks and junk food. Within a few years, those people burn out, and wind up with serious health problems, including obesity. The obesity is a symptom of the health problems, not the cause. And of course, then they end up broke anyway after losing their job due to poor health, and are left to drown under a mound of medical bills that swells with their waisteline.

Taxing the obese would certainly exacerbate the problem. But of course, that probably is the nefarious goal of this insidious campaign of disinformation being wrought upon society.

[edit on 5/17/0808 by jackinthebox]


reply posted on 17-5-2008 @ 03:21 AM by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by deadline527

I have been obese for most of my life, and really don't appreciate your input. I just found out after 21 years of diet and exercise that never affected my weight. I either remained the same weight or gained on some diets. I just found out I have an underactive thyroid; however, I've been on diets since age 11 and not able to lose the weight. I thought there was something wrong with me and I do think full figure women do deserve to be recognized as okay. As well government standards are about 30-40 lbs under a healthy weight for most body types. They don't take in information such as large boned people against small boned. They give us a set weight we should be at depending on our height. Well someone my height with small bones would have more fat and look bigger. I just think people such as yourself should take this into consideration. It's not always the person's fault for what they consume. Most people unknowingly are consuming foods with growth hormones and all the other additives and that is why many people are obese as well as medical problems. But noone stops to think who they are hurting when they say it's obese person's fault for being that way. It hurts more than anyone can imagine I'd rather be called anything other than fat or obese. I hope now that I am on medicine to treat my thyroid it will help, but it is not guaranteed. There are more growth hormones being put in food now than a few decades ago. My 6 year old baby cousin is considered obese but she is rock hard with muscles. She plays baseball and is very active. As snacks she eats fruits and vegetables . How do you determine if a six year old is obese when they're still losing baby fat. I do believe that full figure people need to be recognized as okay because I dealt with a lot of depression issues looking at magazines growing up wondering why I couldn't be that small or half that small, until Glamour had put Queen Latifah on the cover. That issue helped me deal and made me recognize not everyone is meant to be a size 2-12. Different body builds different weights some people aren't obese in"real" life but obese according to "stupid, unrealistic, mean" government standards.


reply posted on 17-5-2008 @ 03:22 AM by The Godfather of Conspira
What I don't get is why Americans have this apologetic and empathetic mindset to Obesity?

I mean you guys treat it as if it can't be helped at all, as if it's no one's fault when somebody is morbidly obese. Instead you try to pawn it off onto genetics, the media, lifestyles, etc...

Just cut the crap will you.
Nobody has got a gun to half the American population's head telling them they should consume 4000g of fat per day or whatever the statistic is.
It's ridiculous!

While I don't believe taxing and punishing obese people monetarily should be implemented, (because after all it's like taxing disabling people for using up Medical Capacity & Resources) I do believe they are not free of guilt or blame.

Society is now having to rearrange itself to suit the growing epidemic of obesity.
From larger airline seats, to having all these XXXXL sizes in clothing to widening door ways in homes, to resteraunts being sued for allegedly promoting obesity, etc....

Why? Why should society change itself to cater to the needs of one particular group of people who the majority of, refuse to do anything about their inflictions?
Instead they're conditioned to believe that being obese is not as bad or serious as it once was, or that you can be fat and be proud of it too.

Absolute lunacy.
No we shouldn't tax obese people. But we sure as hell should put the pressure on them to do something about their condition instead of pressuring society to change to suit their unhealthy lifestyles.

Great while were at it, let's give out more free weekly welfare payments to job dodgers, let's give drug addicts more lenient sentences (after it's not their fault their addicted) and let's found a national Obesity Day where everyone helps care for and feed one obese person.

Just create a whole Welfare State catering to the needs of those who want to leech off others because of their own self-inflicted problems.


reply posted on 17-5-2008 @ 03:58 AM by uplander
reply to post by deadline527


Hey deadline, how can you tell which ones of them fat folks is harboring a disease, like a thyroid condition, and which one of them is just a fat ass? Seriously, I want to hate on the right ones, not them poor sick fats.



Get a life and while you're at it, DIAF. What medical school did you go to?

Rediculous.


reply posted on 17-5-2008 @ 04:27 AM by metro
reply to post by sc2099


I don't know about you, but my girlfriend is 5'3" and weighs in at 115. If you honestly think that is considered too much for the average person to maintain then you have some serious perception issues. Not only is that NOT hard to maintain, requiring you to actually eat something that isn't a golden brown, but it is also very easy to maintain with a reasonable exercise habit.

If you are too damn lazy to exercise 3 times a week, then perhaps you should really hold your mouth when it comes to these things. I'm tired of obese people getting away with acting like it's a normal thing. I'm sick of them not giving a ****, and then acting surprised when people comment on their obesity. I'm tired of them not giving a **** until they get the news they are diabetic or are in need of a bypass operation. I'm tired of all the Homer Simpsons of the world and I'm definitely tired of all the TV programs that portray the average American as some overweight piece of crap with a hot wife.

If people would just culturally accept that obesity shouldn't be tolerated, we wouldn't have the baconator at wendy's, or the supersized portions at all restaurants or the Checkers/Jack-in-the-box giving away calories for $2 a pound.

Nutrition isn't a hard thing to accomplish. Laziness is the core of this problem and it doesn't help the cause when you got the bleeding hearts sticking up for them because they are too lazy to do it themselves.



reply posted on 17-5-2008 @ 05:57 AM by deadline527
The thing you are all missing about MOST obese people, not all, is that its due to sheer lazyness. I have no sympathy for someone who crys foul at being majorly overweight while they sit on the couch all day eating mcdonalds. I do have sympathy for the large person who has genetic factors, but I feel their problems are often overshadowed by the 98% of other obese people that swear the only reason they are obese is genetics as well.

I would love to be skinny but my whole life I've just been bigger. Not fat, but bigger - but guess what, I also could care less about exercise at this point in my life, I enjoy my low energy lifestyle and one day I may start exercising, but for now I at least eat healthy. The thing is though, I admit i'm lazy, I have no genetic factors that would cause me to be larger, I just would rather enjoy my MMORPG type games then go to a gym. Why cant the rest of the world admit their faults? If you're hundreds of pounds overweight, not "obese" according to the textbook definition which I think is bull, then I think you should take responsibility for it. Some people do have bigger bones, but come on, two hundred more pounds of bone? I dont think so.

Im just here to state some things i'm sure many people notice, and that is the fact that the majority of the extremely large people are that way for a reason, and its because of their lifestyles. Again, put any obese person in the army and I bet they come out under obesity.

Obesity SHOULD be looked down upon, its appaling both physically and emotionally. Most people are just obese because they are too lazy to do something about it, and thats the bottom line.

In regards to this thread, sorry was a bit off track, but maybe they shouldn't be taxed, even I see that as quite extreme now. But, there has to be something that encourages them to get off the couch and go for a jog, or to choose to eat a salad instead of a triple-quarter pounder. How often when you go to a fast food place do you see ONE obese person taking down immense amounts of food.. it happens quite a bit.


reply posted on 17-5-2008 @ 08:49 AM by The Godfather of Conspira
reply to post by deadline527


I have to agree with deadline here.

The simple fact is the majority of obese people become obese through the choices they make in life. I know plenty of obese people. They're not genetically disadvantaged, they don't have "big bones" and it's got jack all to do with the media.

Instead they choose to sit at home for a majority of the day, never exercise and eat incredible amounts of fatty, sugary, unhealthy foods.
And society has to carry their burdens for them...
That's just shocking.

Nobody has got a gun to half the American population's head telling them to scarf down 4000g of fat per day as I said before.
It's THEIR CHOICE, thus who else is to blame?

The way in which they try to excuse themselves for becoming obese by blaming genetics, the media, "big bones"; is just sheer denial. Of course they don't want to admit their fat because of their faulty judgment so they come up with half-baked excuses.

Same way smoker's blame their addiction on their "genes", alcoholics blame it on their fathers, heroin addicts blame it on being poor, etc...

NOBODY IS FORCING OBESE PEOPLE TO EAT THEMSELVES INTO OBLIVION.
I'm sorry for the caps but really is it that hard to see? It's their own choice of lifestyle.
They choose to eat fatty foods, not exercise and lead an inactive lifestyle. Nobody does this for them.

Why should society change itself to cater to the needs of one particularly selfish group of people whom the majority of, refuse to do anything about their own inflictions?

It's like saying smoking is allowed in all public areas and non-smokers just have to put up with their unhealthy lifestyle choices.
No instead of pressuring the obese to do something about their problem, the media makes them think their okay, their normal and there's nothing wrong with being physically unhealthy.

It's just so backward, the way obesity becomes an accepted standard. Being unhealthy is accepted?
Why do you think were trying to ban smoking everywhere and restrict alcohol?
God's sake people, stop trying to excuse this like it can't be stopped, I have a perfectly simple solution for it: A GYM.


reply posted on 17-5-2008 @ 10:06 AM by LostNemesis
I think there are many different angles to this problem. I have known many large people, who carry more weight than others for many reasons.
Some people very close to me all my life, some of the most loving, caring people to exist. I don't know ANYONE who aims to eat 4000grams of fat, at the hopes of contracting diabetes.

Having lived it myself, I can also say that there is a very large emotional aspect that is being ignored. I don't think I could possibly be the only one who was brought up by a single parent who worked their arse off just to provide, and didn't know a single thing about nutritional needs, or couldn't much afford it regardless. I heard stories about how his family had it's problems, and 10 for a buck burgers were the normal way to feed so many kids.

I am one that lost a LOT OF WEIGHT. I could say that I a proud to be "normal" now. But it wouldn't be the truth. I still remember how it felt, walking down the street and having people in cars chuck glass bottles out the window at me, or yell out things that hurt, constantly.

Just the other day, I remember walking by a few scrawny teenagers, walking the other direction with head down, just not to draw attention. This constant fear of peoples' hate never went away.

It should be considered unacceptible to physically or verbally assault someone who has never done anything to you. No matter how fat they are, since that seems to be the only justification.

Like a couple of the others here, I am female. I lost 70+lbs excess weight in just about 2 months. By NOT eating, and downing enough beer everyday/night to puke and pass out. The sad thing is, I don't think I should be alive after that, much less having anyone look up to me for it like they do.

Even now, I don't know how to "crash diet" like the media tries to sell to us. I think those pills they try to sell us are fake and do not work. But if you look at it from another angle, there are a LOT of girls who have opposite eating disorders, which stems from an intense fear of gaining weight, and getting criticism from people like some of the uncaring bastards in this thread. No offense... I know young, beautiful, sweet girls who are bulimic and anorexic. It hurts to see such young, intelligent girls going through this, but I'd be a hypocrit if I said I blame them for it.

I for one remember what it was like to get bashed by glass bottles, punishment only for the mistake of taking a walk down the street. And the constant hate-fueled vulgar things yelled.

I'd rather be dead than live it again. Believe me, no one thinks it is fun or cool to carry extra weight.


reply posted on 17-5-2008 @ 10:24 AM by TheRedneck
There has been a lot of information presented here that says eating too much or not exercising enough makes one fat. This is a theory based on the concept that calories in = calories burned + calories stored. Calories in, however, cannot be determined by the amount of food one ingests, but by the amount of nutrition absorbed from that food. Also, calories burned cannot be calculated by the amount of physical exertion alone, but also by the amount of total energy used by the body, including the brain which uses more calories when engaged in deep thought than a similarly sized muscle.

In short, the equation as we have been using it, is flawed. Too many variables have not been taken into account. for instance, the recently discovered hormone Cortizol (also known as the 'stress hormone') has been shown to have a direct effect on a person's size.

If it were as simple as it is 'supposed' to be, then there would be a large decrease in a person's weight as soon as they stopped eating (dieted) or began exercising. This is not the case. It actually appears to me that the stress levels a person undergoes have a more direct relationship with a person's weight than eating habits or amount of exercise. Dieting forces the body into a 'starvation' response, releasing more Cortisol, making the body have a natural tendency to store energy whenever possible. While the person is dieting, there may be no energy to store, so the person may experience a small weight loss, but once that person returns to a normal eating regiment, the extra energy available is stored rather than used or ignored. They gain more weight than before. Sound familiar?

So don't be so fast to assume that everyone who is overweight is so because of their eating habits or laziness. In truth, they may be that way in large part because of the very arguments you are making, which cause them untold amounts of mental stress when your flawed 'remedy' doesn't work.

TheRedneck
(6'-2", 180 pounds, so unbiased)


reply posted on 17-5-2008 @ 10:24 AM by Lilitu
reply to post by Extralien


Discriminatory?

Being from Singapore and having traveled through much of E. & S.E. Asia I can tell you that the overwhelming vast majority of obese people one sees are tourists from N. America and to a lesser extent, Europe. Why is that? It is because those cultures have a problem. One obese person eats enough food to feed anywhere from 3 to 10 normal people, perhaps more. That is so wrong! Any obese person reading this should ask themselves how many starving people must die because they insist upon stuffing their fat over-bloated monstrously grotesque bodies with more food than they need to survive.

Back to discrimination. There is enough food in this world to feed everyone. What is it about this culture's obese human oddities that makes them more deserving of other peoples food? How do they decide "I should eat this and not them. Let the staving masses eat dung."? Is that not discriminatory? Is it not immoral?

To be fair, it is not just the obese. A lot of food gets thrown away or fed to house pets. Sorry but a starving human has more value than your stinking dog. And no, I am not suggesting we should feed the starving with dog food. The money spent to feed useless animals would be better spent feeding useful human beings. The tons of food which is thrown out ultimately feeds stray/wild animals, insects and bacteria so take smaller portions and learn to eat only what you need to be healthy. Buy less and eat it quickly. There will be less to throw out because it went bad.


reply posted on 17-5-2008 @ 11:05 AM by LostNemesis
Originally posted by Lilitu
reply to post by Extralien


To be fair, it is not just the obese. A lot of food gets thrown away or fed to house pets. Sorry but a starving human has more value than your stinking dog. And no, I am not suggesting we should feed the starving with dog food. The money spent to feed useless animals would be better spent feeding useful human beings.


Um. Dude. I hate to say it, but my "stinking dog" has more value to me and others who know him than most people. I personally, do not see the connection to my dog eating well, and the starving third-world.
That said, I doubt starving a member of my family would feed anyone in the third world.

That is SICK. Why don't these people in starving countries rise up against their government and demand rights, instead of guilt tripping those who have loving "house pets". Seems to me, I remember reading about people in Korea eating "house pets". Different cultures have different feelings when it comes to how we treate intelligent, domesticated animals.


reply posted on 17-5-2008 @ 11:09 AM by deadline527
While just browsing web sites, I came across quite a read that is relevant to the conversation at hand. It talks about certain chemicals, specifically BPA, found in plastics that may contribute to obesity as well. Ill post a few quotes and let you guys read the rest, but ill be the first to admit that if things like this are true, then im sure there is many other chemicals that are found in households that might attribute as well. This may lead to the fact that people in underdeveloped countries are not obese due to the reason they do not come into contact with some of these chemicals.

Now, I still stand fast that diet and exercise is the MAIN reason for obesity, and while this may again, only pertain to a small percentage of the obesity population just as genetics, this is a very good read.

www.sciencedaily.com...


While eating too much and exercising too little are still considered the major cause of obesity, scientists have recently started investigating whether chemicals known as endocrine disruptors, which mimic or alter the effects of hormones in the body, could also play a role in making people fat.



One of the chemicals under scrutiny is Bisphenol A, or BPA, an ingredient in polycarbonate plastics. Past research has found evidence that it leaches from plastic food containers and bottles, from plastic wrap and from the resin that lines food cans. It has been found in a large percentage of people examined in developed countries. Besides urine and blood, it has been noted in amniotic fluid, placenta, umbilical cord blood and breast milk. Laboratory experiments have found that BPA can increase the production of fat cells.



In another experiment outlined at the conference, Suzanne Fenton, a research biologist at the US Environmental Protection Agency, found that when the chemical perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA) - a greaseproofing agent used in scores of products from microwave popcorn bags to pizza box liners and other food containers - was given to pregnant mice, their offspring were unusually small at birth then became overweight as adults. In contrast, the mice whose mothers were not exposed to the chemical had a normal growth pattern, as did mice that were exposed as adults only. PFOA is detected in the blood of people around the globe, but is detected at up to 100 times higher concentrations in people living in industrially polluted areas.



In one study, Professor Beverly Rubin, a neuroendocrinologist at Tufts University in the United States, found that female mice whose mothers were exposed to BPA from early pregnancy through day 16 of lactation showed increased weight in adulthood. Food intake and activity levels were no different between the mice who became fat and those that did not.

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