Soldier refuses to serve in Illegal Iraqi War

reply to post by Electricneo

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True.

I would rather hang out with a real good soldier, a true soldier who fights for what is right. Than hang out with a sheep/zombie/brainwashed type soldier who does deeds for his master no matter what.

A real soldier is one that thinks for himself, and fights for what is right, one who has morals and free will.

If your going to have to kill, you must have a VERY good reason for it, the iraq war is not good enough.

That's not the argument for going to war the Bush administration gave.
Lots of Third World countries have shot at our jets-Syria, Libya and
might I remind you of the bombing in Beirut during the early 1980's and
the hundreds of wounded and dead marines.
How come no war then?
Because this war is all about greed for oil period.
Anyone who thinks otherwise lacks awareness, period.

Anyone who still backs Bush and Cheney after they looted the treasury
for their oil baron buddies and war profiteers is as dumb as lead paint on a dung beetles anus.

reply to post by Electricneo

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I dont support this war, but since you think it is for oil, maybe you could enlighten us as to when Iraq will begin flooding the market with oil.

reply to post by _Phoenix_

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No, my reasoning to kill is for the man next to me. You'll never understand and i'm not saying that's a bad thing. My one and only goal is to fight as hard as I can for the men I serve with. I want to see those men go home to their familys. I'm not going to apologize for that either. When you enlist it's what you swear to do. The military, particularly the grunts, often will tell you "screw politics." None of that matter where the bullets meet the meat. And that's what it all comes down to. I witnessed a Marine who had his brother killed in a hot zone. He was allowed to deploy home. Seven days later he was back in the hot zone. Because he couldn't leave his comrades there alone. It's what your expected to do in the military. It's what you SIGNED up and VOLUNTEERED for. There is no draft as of this day.

Uh.....hello? Just your friendly DAV member here reminding you if this guy doesn't have a choice on who he points a weapon at today, you aren't going to like him any better when he's ordered to point it at you.

Will you be screaming for him to do his duty then?

I do understand.... You care for your friends.....

reply to post by slackerwire

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Iraq was invaded because Saddam Hussein was going to FLOOD the
market with $30 per barrel oil. This was widely reported in England and
throughout Europe but hardly in the US corporate media. If Hussein
flooded the market then oil companies couldn't launch their strategy
to get oil up over $100 per barrel as they've done and have all Americans
be scammed suckers.

reply to post by Electricneo

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Well you completely ignore the speculator factor in your little quotient there.

Exactly how many barrels are flowing out of Iraq every day?

reply to post by slackerwire

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I don't believe you get my point.
They (US oil barons) don't want oil flowing out of Iraq right now.
Why sell it now when if they just wait a few years they will get
over $200 a barrel?

reply to post by Electricneo

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Because $200 barrels is beyond the breaking point.

Which companies will be pumping this oil?

Out of what specific wells?

reply to post by slackerwire

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Shell sold oil to the Nazis so I'm sure that their CEO worms are there
with their mouths drooling. Exxon, Chevron you name it -you think
any of these oil companies are so pure that they're going to turn their
nose up to Iraqi oil. Many fingers are in the pie.
The specific wells are all the oil wells in southern Iraq-all of them.

Quitter? Maybe. But according to Article 92 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), a soldier is obligated to follow LEGAL orders. Those which would or could be considered illegal or unconstitutional do not apply. Therefore, if the war is unconstitutional or if it violates treaties signed by our government, the individual soldier has every right to refuse those orders. I would not support quitting just for the sake of doing so. This is why the UCMJ was written and why the administration is having such a hard time prosecuting those who are using this section of the UCMJ in their defense. Apparently, all of the lawyers at the DOJ and in the White House didn't have the forethought to change these laws before they got us into this "war without end."

reply to post by Electricneo

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Sorry, not quite specific enough.

You act as if you have factual knowledge that this is happening, so what specific companies will be pumping out of what specific wells?

Or you could simply admit you dont really know, this is just your opinion, and that you are merely speculating.

reply to post by slackerwire

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Veterans Against the War in Iraq testified in front of Congress last
week. It was broadcast live on Cspan. There were former officers
asserting as much. They called them "moneygrubbers". Did I write
down all their names-no, it's not my job, however they were there.
These courageous veterans can be easily contacted and they would be
happy to give you specifics and dates and even name the criminal commanders
that are in collusion with the oil companies as well as Halliburton, Bechtel and other war profiteers.

reply to post by Electricneo

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Thats your source?

Seriously?

Some guys who are against the war?

Thats it?

reply to post by slackerwire

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Not "guys" soldiers who were actually there.
And witnessed what exactly was and is going on.
Hello, Witnesses are the best sources in the universe.
Ask any lawyer, judge or jury.
Much better than the witless armchair pundits that brainwash.

reply to post by Electricneo

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I spent 18 months there, and I saw no such thing.

Actually, groups of eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable.

Since you believe otherwise, and fail to take into account any biases they may have, then you must also believe the people who claim they witnessed no such activity there right?

reply to post by slackerwire

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Everybody is different serving different roles in different sections of Iraq.
Some soldiers who clean the toilets, wash the dishes or chop onions will not
see much.
By the way- the officer that testified (under oath I might add)
served alongside General Petraeus

reply to post by Electricneo

I was a security contractor, I wasnt in the military.

Think spending time around high level officials wouldnt provide some offhanded comments?