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But both cases show that this is not an act of sexuality.
Particularly the part that says that some have been born eunuchs.
How is that even possible??
Leaving aside the 1 in a million chance that a male might be born without testicles,who exactly is Jesus talking about?
Your own Mormon church tells you you can have a homosexual predisposition but you can not act on it. So you can call your self a homosexual but you have to remain celebrate for life. Or you could get in recovery.
Alcoholics get sober with Jesus. Drug Addicts get straight and Homosexuals convert to heterosexuals with the power of God. You can overcome sin instead of trying to rationalize it.
Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by Bigwhammy
I know what it teaches.And i bring up the same questions with them as i do
on places like this.
I brought up the eunuch quote because i would like to know ppl's opinions and interpretations.Matthew 19:12 is an intriguing verse,especially when you take Isaiah 56:4-5 into account.
And,as i've probably said before so forgive if i'm repeating myself,if a gang of men at anytime or anyplace demand that ppl be brought out to them so they can "know them" then this is not sex,of any kind.It is force,which means it is rape,which isn't sex.Sex is a consenting act between 2 adults,rape isn't.
Did the Angels agree to go with the men of Sodom? No,they didn't.They knew these men were trying to take them by force....
Parts of the Bible do say that homosexuality is wrong.Is that truth or misinterpretation of pagan ceremonies? Personally I don't know,i'm still studying the topic.What i do know is Sodom's sins had little to do with homosexuality and the story of the locals and the Angles also has nothing to do with homosexuality.
Yes,and some ppl who have been married for 20 30 yrs can suddenly fall in love with someone of the same sex.There is not one type of "gay" there are no rules to how ppl are.
Most gays just are what they are,they have known since their sexual awakening.Some ppl are shallow enough to try gay sex because its fashionable or bcoz they think relationships will be easier if they date someone of their own gender.I personally wouldn't class such ppl as homosexual.Some get classed as gay because they were abused as children and the fear within them makes them find the opposite sex repulsive and,as all humans long for human affection,they will be with someone of the same sex rather than spend their life alone.
Some ppl will genuinly "conquer" their gayness and others will claim to have but will still get the urges the rest of their lives.why? because they are gay,not straight! But because they are surrounded by ppl who instill them with self hatred they feel they have to conform.Anyone who treats you like that,over anything,and you would want to change who you are! If you are with ppl who accept you,then you will be happy with yourself.
You are straight,imagine you have to kiss another man/woman.Society demands it.How does that make you feel? Sick? Uncomfortable? Does every fiber of your body tell you that it is wrong?
Thats how i feel when ppl tell me that i should "conquer" my homosexuality.
The idea of being anything more than friends with a man goes against my nature,just as you kissing someone of the same sex goes against your nature.
As i said to my Bishop recently;can God truly be all loving when he is condemning 10% of the population??
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts.
Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Yes,and some ppl who have been married for 20 30 yrs can suddenly fall in love with someone of the same sex.There is not one type of "gay" there are no rules to how ppl are.
Most gays just are what they are,they have known since their sexual awakening.Some ppl are shallow enough to try gay sex because its fashionable or bcoz they think relationships will be easier if they date someone of their own gender.I personally wouldn't class such ppl as homosexual.Some get classed as gay because they were abused as children and the fear within them makes them find the opposite sex repulsive and,as all humans long for human affection,they will be with someone of the same sex rather than spend their life alone.
Some ppl will genuinly "conquer" their gayness and others will claim to have but will still get the urges the rest of their lives.why? because they are gay,not straight! But because they are surrounded by ppl who instill them with self hatred they feel they have to conform.Anyone who treats you like that,over anything,and you would want to change who you are! If you are with ppl who accept you,then you will be happy with yourself.
You are straight,imagine you have to kiss another man/woman.Society demands it.How does that make you feel? Sick? Uncomfortable? Does every fiber of your body tell you that it is wrong?
Thats how i feel when ppl tell me that i should "conquer" my homosexuality.
The idea of being anything more than friends with a man goes against my nature,just as you kissing someone of the same sex goes against your nature.
This argument must come from a gay website. I have debunked it before.That point is completely fallacious!!! Remember when Abraham bargained with God to save Sodom and got it down to 10 righteous men? He could not find even 10. SO... The decision to destroy Sodom was already made before that "rape" event occurred. But the rape never happened either. The angels blinded the men. So that was not the reason! You are referring to the 2 angels that were sent to destroy Sodom that those men wanted to rape. So that act was not the reason..it was already a done deal.
See the thing is its any sex out side of a traditional marriage as defined by Jesus.
ANY sex so its not just picking on homosexuals.
Abstain if you want to be a Christian and follow the Bible.
See you are really focused on yourself here and missing the big picture. According to scripture, God is condemning about 80% of the population most likely. It's all who are not in the Lambs Book of Life. Which there are many non Christians... so your not a special minority to God. Just a sinner.
I hope you aren't offended by the analogy. But drunks can't help their predisposition to drink either. I thought it might help... everybody has a cross to bear and it never seems fair. Best wishes.
I agree. But straight ppl do not get treated like gay ppl do in todays world.
Too many ppl see homosexuality as a disease, straight ppl who have sex before marriage are not seen in this way. You can be gay, still a virgin and ppl
would still see you as a walking "abomination"...
"...Abstain if you want to be a Christian and follow the Bible."
Which is what i and many others are doing. But it doesn't change my sexuality. I'm still a lesbian.
Holy cow! I've been trying to get this point across till I'm blue in the face. It's truly wonderful to be able to agree with you that prejudice against homosexual orientation, although often mistakenly associated with Biblical Christianity, is based on ignorance, bigotry, discrimination and is often also hypocrisy.
Desmond Tutu:"We struggled against apartheid because we were being blamed and made to suffer for something we could do nothing about.It is the same with homosexuality.The orientation is a given,not a matter of choice.It would be crazy for someone to choose to be gay,given the homophobia that is present."
Must it?
Its my own take on the events,though i'm sure many gay and non gay sites have mentioned it too.
Just because 10 righteous men could not be found does not mean that the event describes gay men.You can be unrighteous without performing a gay sex act.Obviously the rape never happened,but this was the intent.I don't think the men of Sodom,if they had not been blinded,were gonna sweep the Angels off their feet in a whirl of romance followed by the act of making love;correction-making gang love.
agree.But straight ppl do not get treated like gay ppl do in todays world.
Too many ppl see homosexuality as a disease,straight ppl who have sex before marriage are not seen in this way.You can be gay,still a virgin and ppl
would still see you as a walking "abomination."
Which is what i and many others are doing.But it doesn't change my sexuality.I'm still a lesbian.
asked the question to get my Bishops opinion only,Obviously you couldn't have known its not because i'm focusing on myself.You raise an interesting point,similar to his.God is condemning 80% of the population.So why aren't they being treated like homosexuals are? If this was true then ppl should be more accepting of homosexuality.But there not.
Not in the least.I'm a recovering alcoholic myself.
And i know the difference between being addicted to something and being gay.They are not the same thing.An addiction is something that has to be satisfied everyday,as you know.But when i wasn't trying to live a chaste life i didn't need to have some kind of intimate or sexual contact with another woman on a daily or regular basis.
I think too many ppl forget that the Old Testament is originally Jewish scripture,and their interpretation on Sodom is not the same as the Christian.Would you say that their interpretation is wrong??
At the beginning of the chapter that includes this passage, Leviticus 18:3 states: "After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances." Here, God is saying that the Hebrews are not to follow the practices of the Egyptians or of the Canaanites. Homosexual ritual sex in temples of both countries was common. Thus, one might assume that Leviticus 18:22 relates to temple same-sex rituals -- something that was ritually impure.
Hmmm as far as prejudice, seems like it's going the other way to me. It's pretty widely accepted in our culture. The sodomy laws have been repealed etc. And I have taken more flack as a Christian for speaking for the Bible position on this issue than anything else here at ATS. I was avoiding this thread because of that. It's not very PC to give the biblical position.
Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by Bigwhammy
Hmmm as far as prejudice, seems like it's going the other way to me. It's pretty widely accepted in our culture. The sodomy laws have been repealed etc. And I have taken more flack as a Christian for speaking for the Bible position on this issue than anything else here at ATS. I was avoiding this thread because of that. It's not very PC to give the biblical position.
I agree,up to a point.
And i'm sure some time on here i've had a go at you as well.lol.
I do admire ppl who stand by their beliefs tho,after all,as Jesus says;if you don't deny him he won't deny you to God.
But i also believe that a religion has to change with the times.It can keep its core beliefs and laws and still do this.
You have to ask yourself one question;should religious tolerance stand in the
way of social/civilised progression?
If you think about it,and the answer is no,then wouldn't women still be in a state where they are "kept" by their fathers and then their husbands,a state of submission,a state where free will is denied.Wouldn't ppl still be using Bible verses that talk of wicked/sinful ppls skin becoming dark as an excuse to be cruel to black,asian,oriental etc?
[edit on 12-7-2008 by jakyll]
According to scripture, God is condemning about 80% of the population most likely.
As the Bible does not condemn gay marriage,do you think it acceptable for gay men or women to marry?