I just had a weird foreboding about McCain...

reply to post by vor78


Ahhh, thx for clearing that up. My bad.

I'll go back and edit it so nobody else reads that and then responds without reading the rest (like some ATSers are known to do).

[edit on 5/15/2008 by bigbert81]

reply to post by FlyersFan


Ok, I must've missed your post on this.

If you're being serious, sad. I thought you'd be brighter than to believe that utter nonsense about prophecy crap.

And funny video. What I don't get though, is they still have the 2 party lines, PLUS Ralph Nader supporters, which kind of contradicts the point of the film.

$.09 per gallon, no wars, restored civil liberties, the cure for cancer. All sounds pretty good.

Oh, and while I'm here, I would LOVE to hear you concede the point of legality and the war. Your admissions to being wrong....sustain me. *puts each and every fingertip to mouth and sucks clean*




[edit on 5/15/2008 by bigbert81]

Originally posted by bigbert81
If you're being serious, sad.

NO! I fully expect we will all be stuck here in 2013.
Well .. unless we die off individually that is.

And funny video.

I thought it was a hoot.

I would LOVE to hear you concede the point of legality and the war.

Naaaaaaaaah. It was legal. STUPID perhaps. Definately executed in a dreadful manner (Even McCain agrees with that). But legal.

*sucks each and every fingertip*.

oh man .. I'm NOT going to go there .. I'm NOT going to go there!

reply to post by FlyersFan

oh man .. I'm NOT going to go there .. I'm NOT going to go there!

Yeah, I meant 'lick fingers clean', but I couldn't think of those 3 words for some reason. I hope you know what I meant though.

Oh, and did you read the article excerpts? It is illegal.

[edit on 5/15/2008 by bigbert81]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by LDragonFire
whats up with his big cheeks?

Skin cancer surgery on his face 8 years ago went deep.
This has puffed up his skin.

His arms don't appear to be the right proportion

He broke both arms during the Vietnam war. His captors refused to give him surgery that he needed on his broken arms.

I think he even moves funny.

His captors did surgery on a broken leg of his while he was a POW in Vietnam. They severely screwed up the surgery. They cut all his muscles, etc etc


He got all these injuries while serving America and while undergoing extreme torture at the hands of the enemy.

The skin cancer he got because he lives in Arizona - which has the highest skin cancer rate in America.

Satisfied?

[edit on 5/15/2008 by ]

thank you FlyersFan for posting that. Don't some of you realize that the physical appearance is irrelevant to anything important?
start looking for who is right for the job and who is actually going to do something to save our freedoms.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by Äŧґαΐł]

reply to post by marg6043


Obama worked with lobbyists to pass $12 million in breaks? Is this an error? You must mean $12 billion or $12 trillion right? Please check your source again.

reply to post by screamo


McCain is not just a war hero, but he is also a part of the war machine, similar to Bush Jr.. If anyone thinks McCain is going to end the war in Iraq, they are brainwashed beyond all hope and ignorant of America's history and of the way the "Militairy-Industrial Complex" works.

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together." -Dwight D. Eisenhower, Jan 17, 1961

Watch "Why We Fight". I doubt if even if a Democrat is elected that we will really get out of Iraq. There is oil there, after all.

mcain is like 100 years old.
he will be lucky if he lives long enough to see the next president.

reply to post by LDragonFire

you damm fool, dont you know the man was tortured for several years, thus his deformities.

I can't believe none of you brought his FACT into the discussion:

ALL THREE - Obama, Clinton, AND McCain are members of The Council on Foreign Relations. (and Hillary is a Bilderberger). Obama's foreign policy advisor is Zbigniew Brzezinski, Rockefeller's Nazi/cronie in The Trilateral Commission. Obama = "Change"? Yeah, right. Fresh face, same puppet masters.

Just like the 2004 election where BOTH Bush and Kerry are members of Skull & Bones - no matter who we chose, THEY still win.

Same thing here in 2008....

WRITE IN Ron Paul! The problem is, due to the media manipulation, the average (clueless)voter doesn't even realize they CAN write in Dr. Paul(or whomever).

A) the Federal reserve is not a bank but a private corporation made of banks that are voting members. This private corporation decides your fate each time they manipulate interest rates and money supply.

B) Bush may be shrewd politician, and not so bright president, but McCain is just plain angry at the world. He has a Temper and most people close to him not working in his cabinet dont truly trust him to be President. He will garner support for no other reason than he is nominee and politicians will kiss his butt to serve at the white house. This is a default position should be viewed with great suspicion

C) Voting for anyone because of what they underwent in a war, or not, is incredibly dangerous. The President should be someone that has experience and temperament to manage the nation, not withstand torture or avoid the draft.


Vote for the best person to sit in the Oval Office, not romantic war heroes...warriors are never the best president.

Originally posted by Hallberg Rassy
Vote for the best person to sit in the Oval Office, not romantic war heroes...warriors are never the best president.

Sometimes warriors ARE the best. For two reasons -

1 - they understand that sometimes America needs to take military action in order to defend itself from VERY REAL enemies.

2 - most importantly - they have seen the horrors of war UP CLOSE and they know the pain and damage it can cause. Someone like McCain, who suffered from war, would be more likely to try to avoid it if at all possible.

I do agree with you on the temper part.
He has a reputation for having a very troubled temper.

reply to post by whiteraven


Any President could call ALL troops home at will. So, we CAN get out. But, it won't happen. It's going to be a mind boggling, long, drawn-out war. I don't see this ever dying down as long as we have troops on Iraqi soil - as long as their are religious differences in the Muslim world. Sure, a President could bring our troops home and America would be fine. But, that leaves the people of Iraq in a tough spot. I don't necessarily agree with pulling all troops, but I don't see a clear means for "Victory" either. There's going to have to be some give and take to establish peace in that region. And it's going to involve the U.S. coming to terms with the fact that there is no "Win" in Iraq. The best we're going to be able to do is a stale mate that results in some sort of agreement to keep a moderate amount of troops in Iraq while quelling the religious difference that seems to torment the country ... the same differences that affect the entire Middle East. It's going to be a LONG time.

reply to post by whiteraven


I was going to edit my post to correct that just after I posted it, but decided not to. If I were McCain, a former POW, and in the running to become the Commander in Chief, I'd probably say that I thought we could win as well. But, I highly doubt he even has an idea of what Victory would be. He's only trying to show an essence of patriotism for his image as a candidate. I think McCain is much more realistic than some of his town hall ramblings may make him seem. But, that doesn't mean that I would support another "War President" in office. I just can't afford it. And neither can the rest of the working nation.

Maybe Ron Paul wouldn't be the best choice for the turmoil taking place in the Middle East, but he's certain the BEST choice for America in terms of the best interests of America. McCain, Obama and Clinton are the best choices for Domestic and International Special Interests.

You have to take a look at the whole view. Who really has the your best interests in mind. This isn't a conclusion you can come to when you judge a book by it's cover (or it's MSM). You have to be familiar with each candidates stance on all issues, foreign and domestic. While I don't agree with everything Paul thinks about the situation in Iraq, he's be hard fought to reverse some of the efforts that are going to be required in that region. And I doubt he could get everything that he would like to done domestically, but it's a turning point.

I'd rather pull over and figure out what wrong with the engine, rather than ignore it just to get to the bank. At least at the end of the day I'll still have a car.

reply to post by screamo

He survived two airplane crashes and a collision with power lines.

McCain and his fellow pilots were frustrated by micromanagement from Washington, and he would later write that "In all candor, we thought our civilian commanders were complete idiots who didn’t have the least notion of what it took to win the war."

McCain was almost killed on July 29, 1967 when he was at the epicenter of the Forrestal fire.

The ensuing fire killed 134 sailors and took 24 hours to control. As Forrestal headed for repairs, McCain volunteered for the USS Oriskany.

In August of 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery, and McCain made an anti-American propaganda "confession". He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable, but as he would later write, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."

McCain became enmeshed in a scandal during the 1980s when he was one of five United States Senators comprising the so-called "Keating Five". Between 1982 and 1987, McCain had received $112,000 in legal political contributions from Charles Keating Jr. and his associates at Lincoln Savings and Loan Association, along with trips on Keating's jets that McCain failed to repay until two years later. In 1987, McCain was one of the five senators whom Keating contacted in order to prevent the government’s seizure of Lincoln, which was by then insolvent and being investigated for making questionable efforts to regain solvency. McCain met twice with federal regulators to discuss the government's investigation of Lincoln.
On his Keating Five experience, McCain said: "The appearance of it was wrong. It's a wrong appearance when a group of senators appear in a meeting with a group of regulators, because it conveys the impression of undue and improper influence. And it was the wrong thing to do." Federal regulators ultimately filed a civil suit against Keating. The five senators came under investigation for attempting to influence the regulators. In the end, none of the senators were charged with any crime. McCain was rebuked by the Senate Ethics Committee for exercising "poor judgment", but their 1991 report said that McCain's "actions were not improper nor attended with gross negligence and did not reach the level of requiring institutional action against him."

en.wikipedia.org...

There are just a few reasons McCain would make a terrible President. Those are facts that the wikipedia democracy has prevented McCain's campaign from 'sanitizing'...

Plus Who wants a known Drug Addict and Thief as First Lady?

In 1989, Cindy McCain became addicted to opioid painkillers such as Percocet and Vicodin, which she initially took to alleviate pain following two spinal surgeries for ruptured discs and to ease emotional stress during the Keating Five scandal, which involved her as a bookkeeper who had difficulty finding receipts. The addiction progressed to where she resorted to stealing drugs

en.wikipedia.org...

Or is she the Second lady, since he divorced his first wife because she didn't look like a model anymore... so he replaced her with a newer model...

On July 3, 1965 McCain married Carol Shepp, a model originally from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

In 1979, McCain met and began a relationship with Cindy Lou Hensley, a teacher from Phoenix, Arizona, the only child of the founder of Hensley & Co.

His wife Carol accepted a divorce in February of 1980, effective in April of 1980.... McCain and Hensley were married on May 17, 1980.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by bigbert81
It is illegal.

No it's not. (we could so this forever)

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
ALL THREE - Obama, Clinton, AND McCain are members of The Council on Foreign Relations.... (WRITE IN Ron Paul! )

I can't believe it ... I actually gave an anonymous poster a star!
O Anonymous One ... I say it all over the boars - Obama, Clinton and McCain = CFR. No change. No hope. No Unity. FROM ANY OF THEM.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by reject

 

You should be worry, very worrry, McCain is favor by the same people that got Bush elected in 2000.

The same people that pushed our war, that is bankrupting our country and that is giving away our children future for profits and greed.

Yes, you should be very afraid, because McCain is nothing more than another Bush with a different face.

I think you're wrong to brand a republican with that just for the sake of him being a republican.
You're being very rash.

So what if he's favoured? He needs to be cause they are as likely wanting someone to bail out the country from the mess it's in and put right whats been done wrong.

When will some people just chill out and stop fretting themselves at something that is republican or right wing?
Yeah ok the NWO or shadow brokers etc are pulling strings and providing the tunes but they'd be doing the same stuff if it was leftist or rightist leader. They do there thing and we can just watch and wait.
If big bad things descend then we can take action.
Until then we are pretty much playing the waiting and seeing whats next

I think the Bush bogeyman has got too many folk jumping at their own shadows. Yes Bush made some errors, had bad advice and possibly has a dodgy agenda as to the ME wars.

Bush is a different kettle of fish to McCain.
When I see McCain on the campaign trail I don't see someone who will take sht and be cowed by his people pushing an agenda. I also reckon he's as straight up as you can get in politics.

Jeez, can you imagine sitting in front of the guy in the whitehouse and saying 'Right Mr President, this is what you're gonna say today!' He might be in his 70s but I think he'd tell you to back off!
Alright you might argue he'd be putting himself at risk from within but for someone who's gone through hell in Vietnam he won't be fearful of that.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by WatchRider]

Wow, even when PROVED wrong, you still argue.

Why am I not surprised?

Drop the ego, and concede the point. You have clearly lost.

[edit on 5/16/2008 by bigbert81]

Originally posted by cindymars
Well I think they all blow and we are all screwed (can I say that word?)

Im not even registered, why do all you folks that come here to ATS and know what a joke it all is, care who is running, none of them will do anything good. Just my opinion.

This is so true. The three that are running are all on the same team. We should already know this by what happen when the dems won the house and Pelosi became speaker. What changed nothing and nothing is going to change for the middle class beside our decline into the lower class. Wake Up!!!!

reply to post by reject


If anyone in America thinks their vote counts, they are sadly mistaken. These presidents are hand picked by courtesy of your Illuminati, NWO and Black Pope it is a fraud voting system, they manipulate the votes for who they have already chosen. You should be able to figure this one out on your own w/FL in 2004 Bush lost, but there he is still in office. It has been a political distraction game for us dumbing down Americans stupid enough to play along w/their Democrat/Republican game so behind the scenes they are manipulating every possible law and hoarding all our tax money. Collecting income tax is unconstitutional. Don't believe me, DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH!!!

reply to post by LDragonFire


I agree with everything you wrote. I don't feel bad about agreeing because McCain has no issues with perpetual war and death so he can take some jabs.

I read that he broke his arms ejecting from his plane because he didn't cross them. Panic can do that to anyone. I also read that his father was a top military guy and that because of this the Vietnamese kept McCain in "really good shape."

My take on this is that McCain was held for almost the entirety of the war. He was captured in 1968 and released in 1973. According to common knowledge there were pows there into the 80s and even now possibly. Rambo 2 was about going after the pows that were still being held.

IMO most of what you hear about McCain is fabricated and all that happened was a cleverly orchestrated ploy to keep an elite out of combat yet keep his honor as a son of top brass.

I've heard all the mumbo jumbo about what the msm says happened to him so everyone can save it. McCain's dad and grandfather were both admirals and dodging the draft or getting deferments for McCain would not have sufficed for a future in politics and they couldn't risk him actually being killed.