U.S. Holding 51,000 Iraqis In Prison, Most Illegally, page 1
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Topic started on 15-5-2008 @ 06:38 AM by budski

U.S. Holding 51,000 Iraqis In Prison, Most Illegally



The U.S. is illegally holding more Iraqis in prison than ever before---24,700---and is expanding its facilities to accommodate another 10,000, according to a published report.In addition to those detained by the U.S., the Iraqi government is holding 26,000 Iraqis in jail, bringing the total number of prisoners to almost 51,000.

“U.S. forces are holding nearly all of these persons indefinitely, without an arrest warrant, without charge, and with no opportunity for those held to defend themselves in a trial,” writes Ciara Gilmartin, the Security Council Program Coordinator at Global Policy Forum(GPF), of New York City.

“While the United States has put in place a formal review procedure that supposedly evaluates all detainees for release on a regular basis, detainees cannot attend these reviews, cannot confront evidence against them, and cannot be represented properly by an attorney,” Gilmartin said.These conditions are “in direct violation” of international human rights law, says Glimartin. Washington, however, claims due process does not apply as it is engaged in “an international armed conflict.”

Human rights authorities, however, say the conflict is not international and that human rights law applies at all times.In an effort to conceal conditions in its Iraqi compounds, the U.S. has closed them to human rights monitors such as Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and the International Federation of Human Rights, Gilmartin said.
(visit the link for the full news article)


reply posted on 15-5-2008 @ 09:10 AM by budski
reply to post by hinky



So for thinking that the proven detention of innocent civilians is bad, a person is either a simpleton or anti-american?

Do you also condone the proven torture of innocent civilains?

Tell me how you would feel if armed forces invaded your home, took away your male family members, held them without trial or charges, tortured them, granted them absolutely no rights, then released them a few years later as innocent.

The kind of thinking that you have displayed, with apparently no knowledge or comprehension of the situation is what has allowed bush to ride roughshod over the US constitution.

Perhaps you'll be happy when they have real nazi-style concentration camps not only for "terror suspects" but also for any who dare to disagree.


reply posted on 15-5-2008 @ 09:13 AM by Symer
reply to post by hinky


I have to admit I am sometimes jealous of such thoughts. The black and white world seems like such a simple place to live. Embracing stereotypes, not needing to do any actual thinking, just let your emotions speak and box the world up. We = good, Iraqi = terrorist, terrorist ≠ human, anyone who disagrees = anti-American.

Anyway, back to the real world: I assume the detainees are in prison for a reason. I am however having trouble believing all those reasons actually justify those people being in prison. I wonder how many people are just there for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or because someone being tortured for names finally broke and simply listed friends and acquaintances to get the torture to stop? If the reasons are legitimate, why aren't they charged with something? Is there any sign of trials starting, or at least anything resembling a justice system being put in place?

By the way budski, I seem to be missing the link to the article. Could you (re)post it?


reply posted on 15-5-2008 @ 09:14 AM by kerontehe
reply to post by budski


Could we have a source link please?

Just to check the veracity.



reply posted on 15-5-2008 @ 11:41 AM by budski
reply to post by COOL HAND



I thought the thread was about discussion of the article and the issues it raises, rather than your usual strawmen and derailing attempts when you read something you don't like.

If that's the case, prove that there AREN'T nearly 25,000 prisoners in US custody, as well as the 26,000 iraqi's in iraqi jails.


reply posted on 15-5-2008 @ 11:56 AM by johnsky
Originally posted by hinky
As long as they have suicide murderers going on within Iraq, they apparently don't have enough terrorists being detained. I don't give one **** how many of these people are being kept and held.

They treat their prisoners (our soldiers and contractors) by torture, mutilation, and then beheading. What makes a civilized person believe these people deserve any decent treatment.

Simpletons and anti-American people will tell you that because of our actions, they act this way. No, they kill innocent people only because of the false religion they follow and have no fear of death. Leaving them alone would only endanger more people as they would spread their terroristic ways to other countries.

The terrorist need to be either incarcerated or killed. It's that simple.



You don't give one **** how many innocent people get detained illegally?

Excellent... then you won't mind being locked up along with them.
Where do you live? I think I smell a "homegrown terrorist", I can't be sure, but I think we had better lock you up and torture the heck out of you just to make sure.


You might not care how many innocent people get locked up and tortured... but those innocent people DO... and when they get out... they won't give one **** how many of YOU get blown up.


... we are all angry at the terrorists. But hitting innocent people for it just makes things worse.

And no, ONLY SIMPLETONS AND ANTI-AMERICANS CONDONE THE USE OF TORTURE AND ILLEGAL IMPRISONMENT.

Free countries don't use torture, Free countries respect human rights...
Why do YOU hate Freedom?

[edit on 15-5-2008 by johnsky]


reply posted on 15-5-2008 @ 12:00 PM by COOL HAND
Originally posted by budski
They go to the PTB and say "abdul is an insurgent" so the military lock
them up with no proof (in many cases) other than someone elses word.


Where's the proof of that? The ones that the military locks up have to be proven by multiple sources (narc, evidence, caught at a meeting, etc). The Iraqis may be locking up people like you say, but the US is not involved with that.

Which begs my question of where is the proof that these 51k people were all locked up by US forces and not the Iraqis?


They are then held without legal recourse or trial.

Proof?


There's plenty of evidence about this.

Just not in the article you are using.


I'm not passing anything off as factual information - I posted a story and my thoughts on it.

Yet you are hinging your entire arguement on this article. You have shown no other proof.


If you don't agree with it, provide evidence other than YOUR opinion that refutes it.

I have told you that I can't, stop beating a dead horse.


The person who wrote the article is a very well respected journalist, and has named his sources in international organisations.

Well respected? Where? Do a goole search on him and see for yourself.


Now would you care to get back to the point of the thread, or provide some contrary evidence, or shall I just stick you and your strawman on ignore?


I have been working on the point of this thread.

But, if you want to put me on ignore then go right ahead. I can't stop you from doing that. Course that is like admitting you can't handle debating someone.


reply posted on 15-5-2008 @ 12:09 PM by The Godfather of Conspira
reply to post by COOL HAND



Cool Hand, reread my post above and here's your evidence:

On February 7, 2006, Mark Denbeaux, professor at Seton Hall University Law School and counsel to two Guantanamo detainees, and Joshua Denbeaux released a report on the Guantanamo detainees.
This report used information contained in the Combatant Status Review Board Letters, released by the Department of Defense, to compile a profile on the detainees. It provides a more detailed picture of who the detainees are, how they ended up at Guantanamo, and what evidence there is to support their classification as enemy combatants.
Some of the information contained in the report include the fact that only 8% of the detainees are classified as Al Qaeda fighters and only 5% were actually captured by US forces (most were arrested by Pakistan and the Northern Alliance and then turned over to the United States).

Global Security (more here)

[edit on 15/5/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]
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