Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar


It is of interest to me as well the way he described the burns, as coming from vented gas that escaped through the 'hatchway' after the hatch had sealed. This sounds like a form of mildly explosive decompression, something expected when sealing and equalizing pressure in a docking module. It could well have been superheated air that burned him, air that had entered into the pressurization chamber (the hatchway of the craft) that was then vented out of the craft when the pilots restored cabin pressure (their own preferred atmosphere and pressure) to the craft before take off.


-WFA

Fantastic desciption you gave us here WFA, exellent stuff! thanks for your great input!!

Originally posted by sherpa
reply original post by IgnoreTheFacts


Clearly you have aligned yourself with this hobby and feel agrieved that others do not share your view of how it should be treated, perhaps you yourself have been "burned" for believing or being part of it and feel the need to chastise others the same way you have.


Whatever, personally, other than giving yourself a momentary high, I cannot see the point of your abusive posts they don't change anything other than causing bad feeling towards you.

What a fantastic reply thanks Sherpa!

Know lets stay on the topic!

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Unfortunately, I can think of a mundane way to get that burn.

Possible scenario:

Drunk man trips, landing face down, tummy across the campfire grill.

I'm not saying this happened, there's no proof. It's just a POSSIBLE explanation.

Thank you Anonymous person for thinking of a way it could be done.
That's at least some effort put forth, and I for one appreciate it.

I don't necessarily agree that it's a likely explanation, and I'll tell you why. A prospector is constantly on the move. They will set up small camps (these were called towns in the American West, and grew into some of the modern cities we see there today). Most of these camps are temporary. It is only in such a camp that you would find a campfire grill, especially one large enough to create the pattern seen on the man's torso.

A prospector (if he's lucky) will have a few of his mates/friends with him, and perhaps a pack animal. If he's not lucky (and this is the described scenario in the case report) he'll be alone and on foot. Even alone and on foot, it's common for prospectors to head out far away from camp.

A prospector on such an exploration, would necessarily only carry with him the gear required to survive and complete his task. Sleeping gear, a change of clothes, a good knife, a pan or two, a pick (type of small axe) and a good walking stick. You'd need a canteen of fresh water and a hat (VERY important for gold panning, you NEED the right hat, it's a trick of the trade).

I digress, the point is, nobody is going to carry a campfire grill way out into the unexplored wilds while out looking for precious metals.

So I find it unlikely that your suggestion is the actual cause of the man's injuries.

I do thank you though for a realistic suggestion. Perhaps you should join ATS and setup a username, so that I can associate your willingness to think with an identity?

-WFA

Originally posted by GUNSINWAR

Originally posted by sherpa
reply original post by IgnoreTheFacts


Clearly you have aligned yourself with this hobby and feel agrieved that others do not share your view of how it should be treated, perhaps you yourself have been "burned" for believing or being part of it and feel the need to chastise others the same way you have.


Whatever, personally, other than giving yourself a momentary high, I cannot see the point of your abusive posts they don't change anything other than causing bad feeling towards you.

What a fantastic reply thanks Sherpa!

Know lets stay on the topic!

Wow, that was out of left field!

Where does that guy get off putting your thread down?

Anywho....

To the guy who said that this could be super heated air that burned him....

I would believe this however......

This wouldn't explain his lingering after effects, nausea, apparent radiation sickness without any radiation present, and the smell of burning electricity around him that lingered for weeks.

I really don't think hot air would do all that, but I could easily be wrong.

Thanks for sharing your theory!

Great thread!

Originally posted by IMAdamnALIEN
To the guy who said that this could be super heated air that burned him....

I think that was me

Originally posted by IMAdamnALIEN
This wouldn't explain his lingering after effects, nausea, apparent radiation sickness without any radiation present, and the smell of burning electricity around him that lingered for weeks.
I really don't think hot air would do all that, but I could easily be wrong.

I totally agree with you. In fact, I'm certain that superheated air wouldn't cause those effects. And I'm in agreement that some other factors must have been in play. I only found the superheated air theory consistent with the burns themselves, and the pattern, as it correlated to the victim's account.

There must have been other factors involved in whatever happened to him, and there must have been a quantity of irradiated material close to him for certain, to produce the observed results.

I've got nothing on the smell. Anyone have any ideas about that? I know that overcooked meat can smell like that, does anyone have any data they'd like to share? I'm at a dead end it seems on that aspect...

-WFA

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Unfortunately, I can think of a mundane way to get that burn.

Possible scenario:

Drunk man trips, landing face down, tummy across the campfire grill.

I'm not saying this happened, there's no proof. It's just a POSSIBLE explanation.

You are forgetting the facts!

Remember this made it to the ever popular "Unsolved Mysteries"

I really dont think this story would have even made the cut if there weren't significant evidence involved.

Remember, the doctors and scientists that studied this man were completely baffled by what they saw. A man tripping over something and accidentally burning himself, WOULD NOT leave ANY doctor or scientist baffled in the least!

Don't dismiss the facts!

The decompression idea was the best I have heard so far. But to say this man burned himself is just silly.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by IMAdamnALIEN]

Originally posted by sherpa
reply original post by IgnoreTheFacts

The word "Ufology" is a modern and misleading word and I would never call myself a ufologist because it suggests credence, unfortunately there is very little.

Hobbies are not a discipline nor a professional field so people have the freedom to pursue them as they see fit, if that way is not your way then I am afraid your tipping at windmills you are not going to change that.

Clearly you have aligned yourself with this hobby and feel agrieved that others do not share your view of how it should be treated, perhaps you yourself have been "burned" for believing or being part of it and feel the need to chastise others the same way you have.

Perhaps it is frustration that no apparent progress is evident and the actions of others is the reason for this, maybe but I doubt it, you see there have been many people who have dedicated years if not lifetimes to the hobby some of which have had credible scientific backgrounds such as Auguste Meesen, James E Mcdonald, Jacques Vallee, J Allen Hynek, Peter A Sturrock and yet there has been very little change.

Whatever, personally, other than giving yourself a momentary high, I cannot see the point of your abusive posts they don't change anything other than causing bad feeling towards you.

I have been here long enough to know this will not change you but at least this post makes me feel better and by the way I look forward to any thread you may post that treats ufology in the way you would approve.

edit to add bold to reply line

[edit on 15-5-2008 by sherpa]

Ah, it has nothing to do with what I approve of or not. I'm not one of those fools who post subjects such as this in order to garner points or recognition from my fellow forum members. You know, those hollow threads that are posted a few every day or so by the same members over and over trying to fill the void left by folks like John Lear and sleeper. It's almost become a reality show around here. Like "Who can rise to be king of the useless thread starters?" Hell, the few threads I have started were stupid too, and I decided it was much better to reply to threads than dredge up useless things like this and post them as if I had some real clue to discuss. Please.

But by giving such foolish threads like this (that don't deserve further thought) you are doing nothing but ENABLING the foolish to perpetuate the foolishness.

And some of you wonder why this subject is not taken seriously. Again, if you can't understand why I say this, then I am sorry to say that you are a part of the problem that you guys spend so much of your time here complaining about. I could point to posts made by some in this very thread that CLEARLY illustrate this very point, but you wouldn't see it, because your all to blind to how things really work. And before you all discount my position (ignorantly so, I might add) you need to know that I am privy to things that most of you probably dream about, this is not coming from some ignorant fool living in a trailer park fantasying about things that takes his mind of his miserable existence and his desire to believe in anything that will make him feel better about his current situation.

Again, this UFO case has nothing beneficial to give to the subject, nothing can be followed up, investigated,m and there are OBVIOUS plot holes that anyone with a firm grasp of common sense, reason and logic can see.

The only thing discussing this case produces is the very thing that you guys are against. Again, I am sorry you are not keen enough to understand where I am coming from, and I am sorry you all feel the need to constantly enable threads such as this that do nothing but cast doubt on the subject you all claim to believe in (blindly and without common sense I might add)

And yes, I now ATS would be a boring place without all the threads like this (and the other threads that are even more of a waste of time....seriously, hit the main forum and read the titles...if you don't laugh out loud you are a little too open minded) But there need to be a time where folks like yourselves, those that can actually hold a competent conversation about the subject, realize that we need to focus on things that will propel this subject into the realm of the majority. Yes, it will take years. But this subject didn't get to where it is in a day either, so you can't expect to fix it that quickly too.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by IgnoreTheFacts]

[edit on 16-5-2008 by IgnoreTheFacts]

You guys can waste your brain cells attacking the messenger all you want, at least that saves you from dealing with the core problem., of which you may be too close in order to see (you know, the forest through the trees analogy and all that)

Go ahead and sick the mods on me. If you need them to defend you inner sensibilities, that is. This place would not survive unless there were large amount of brainless enablers (devoid of common sense, reason an logic) that do nothing but give very questionable things the benefit of the doubt, making us all look like nutjobs. This thread was put up there (and look at the stars and flags he is reveling in) by someone who wants to garner attention from the community as someone who is "on the leading edge" of investigation and ufology. Give me a break. This is an older than dirt case, and the only thing he brings to the table is "look at me, look at me...I posted something relevant....please star and flag me...I'm the next John, Mike, or Zorgon..." Again, I'm sorry you can't see through this obvious yearning of the OP, but that is a problem with Ufology these days. Sure, they start small, but when they post old crap that gets this much attention they are only deluded into thinking they know their butts from a hole in the ground and they should continue to be useless by posting more crap that will get more stars and flags from the ignorant masses.

Seriously, do you want me to point out some of the inconsistencies here? If I have to, it almost defeats the purpose, and will be lost on the enablers anyway, because there is nothing you can do in order to convince those that are too foolish, or mentally handicapped in some way, to see reality. Plain and simple. If you are angry at me, then I expect I have hit the head on the nail and you might want to look in the mirror before you reply (each reply to this message only serves to enable thoughtless threads like this in the future, so have at it, but don't let me catch you in other threads complaining about the sad state you have helped to keep Ufology in)

This UFO case is as DEAD as that useless Roswell case. Plain and simple. You can get on here all day and debate what you want to believe, but in the end, the bulk of the posts will only serve to enforce the stereotype that clearly states the majority in this community will overlook common sense, reason and logic in order to hold tight to their ignorant conclusions.

Seriously, lets all wrap our arms around the LEAST possible conclusion to such an outlandish "story" such as this and cling tight. We will all come out looking better for doing so, right?

My latest useless rant is not directed at Sherpa or WitnessFromAfar, I have read your posts for some time and know you weren't born yesterday, I apologize for coming off like a complete tool (which I know I did again in this post too, lol)

And yes, you see me use the words "common sense, reason and logic" over and over. Sorry it sounds like a broken record, but until I see it applied I will continue to use that phrase to describe the majority of the threads, posts and opinions found on here.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
My latest useless rant is not directed at Sherpa or WitnessFromAfar, I have read your posts for some time and know you weren't born yesterday, I apologize for coming off like a complete tool (which I know I did again in this post too, lol)

Clearly you didn't read my posts in this thread, or your latest reply would have addressed at least ONE single aspect of this case that you feel has in some way been debunked.

Do you understand that a general statement of 'this thread is bunk' means nothing?

What means something, is to say, 'this aspect of this thread is bunk, and here's the evidence I'm basing my conclusion upon'.

You see Ignore the Facts, what lies at the heart of our debate here is technique.

Even if we were discussing say that horrible Pokemon thread that broke out in here a few months ago...

Even the most ridiculous claims must be refuted with evidence, or else you're just barking at the wind.

I've read your posts in the past too ITF, and when you step away from insulting people you also seem to make a lot of sense.

What makes me so angry, and yes, I've gotten angry about this thread today, is that you should know better than to lay into people like that without at least offering a plausible alternative explanation.

Believe it or not, I'm actually interested in hearing that alternative explanation, and obviously so are Sherpa and others.

Can we just get through all of the 'you guys are so dumb for not seeing this' part of the thread and get to the part where you offer your alternative explanation?

I've made it really easy for you, you don't even need to offer an explanation for the case itself, simply for a single facet of the case.

Here are a few:
1) The Burn Marks
2) The Radioactivity

Do you have a plausible alternative explanation for the trace evidence found in this case?

I've found in my experience (especially here at ATS) that those who have an answer to that question will give it, and those that don't will continue to hurl insults to fill the gaping hole left by their lack of alternative explanation. And it's apparent that ATS readers can tell the difference.

I'm truly hoping that you're a member of the former group, and not the latter ITF. Prove my hopes right, if it's not to much trouble. I'm not trying to be a smart @ss here, I'm being serious.

What are your alternative explanations for some of the trace evidence found in this case?

-WFA