Originally posted by sizzle
I am talking about truly earth-shaking, powerful knowledge. Knowledge that would make a difference to the masses.

Oooh, sounds juicy! Do tell

It's a wonder the earth had not been shaken already because of it...or are you claiming responsibility for global disasters?

Originally posted by sizzle
Btw,
The secrets that I refer to, (that were once held by the Knight's Templar's) are not in reference to whether Jesus married Mary Magdalene and had a child, or about the Spear, or the Chalice or any of that rhetoric.

I am talking about truly earth-shaking, powerful knowledge. Knowledge that would make a difference to the masses.

Please share, I am wondering what you are referring to here. Where could we find this knowledge?

One such subject that the chruch admits to removing from the bible was one of your study subjects (demons & angels). They said it was because those subjects seemed to grab peoples attention more than the things people should focus on in the bible.

Originally posted by ravenflt
One such subject that the chruch admits to removing from the bible was one of your study subjects (demons & angels). They said it was because those subjects seemed to grab peoples attention more than the things people should focus on in the bible.

Other than this being a study subject, this seems to be a correct statement. Angels were never intended to be a focal point for study. There was a cropping up of angel cults that seemed to believe they were of greater importance. People were praying to them, appealing to them, perhaps worshipping them? That's not a good thing when the rest of the book says God should be receiving these things. A lot of detail turned into obsession in the human mind for some reason. This is pretty much true with anything. The more information there is on a topic, the more people want to delve deep. There's nothing wrong with knowledge, but everything wrong with missing the point.

Personally I think there's such a thing as TMI (too much information) about demons as well with great consequences. I know I've shared information on the topic in the past only for it to be used against me. I don't mind what was done to me, but I do very much mind what was done to the person using it.

Originally posted by jhill76
Is there anything that would stand out, in which the church says we should keep hush hush?

Nothing that needs 'hush hush'. As mentioned before, the books didn't get torched nor are buried in the ground. There are details of hierarchy (of sorts) and specific names. Some accounts of possession and how they were dealt with Old Testament-style. Big problem is that many people don't know how to "read but do not use" like handing someone a sword and telling them never to swing it. Curiousity takes hold of course and someone cuts themself. The New Testament makes dealing with demons a lot easier with Christ.

Originally posted by jhill76
Spear of Destiny - IS it real? The only thing i know about that is from the movie Constantine.

Ah movies, the infinite source of knowledge and wisdom...

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by jhill76
Spear of Destiny - IS it real? The only thing i know about that is from the movie Constantine.

Ah movies, the infinite source of knowledge and wisdom...

Actually I was referring to sizzle post:

The secrets that I refer to, (that were once held by the Knight's Templar's) are not in reference to whether Jesus married Mary Magdalene and had a child, or about the Spear, or the Chalice or any of that rhetoric.

I am asking is the spear real as this is the second time I have heard of it. Nothing to do with the movie, but again, most movies are based off something. I am pretty sure when they made Constantine they got advisement from a church and maybe even a satanist.

Like when they make military movies, they usually have a military adviser so the movie will have some realism to it.

This History Channel had a couple shows that dealt with this topic. I think it was called Banned From the Bible if I remember correctly. According to the scholars interviewed there were a few different reasons given for why particular books were left out. As it's been awhile since I watched it I can't give a detailed lineup for you, but I'll pass on what I remember.

Some books were left out because they didn't really fit in the order that was being established. They wanted to story to make sense to the reader and didn't want to jump around. Books concerning the Virgin Mary were left out because they came before the books about Jesus and would lead the reader into thinking she was more important. They wanted the story to be about him so they removed some of those.

Some books were duplicates so they chose either one or the other. Usually they chose the one that fit with their idea of what the religion should be about.

The last type were books that were just too dangerous to include. These were books that delivered a message that the priests did not want out in the public. One book (can't remember which one), basically said that everyone would be saved in the end regardless of what they had done. This type of message could not be out in the public since they would have no control over people's actions. If there truly was no punishment for doing something wrong, then what's to stop people from doing whatever they wanted. Way to dangerous so it was out of there.

If you get a chance to watch it, check it out.

Just for the record. It is quite exhilarating and yet so exasperating to see a wisp of air breathed into such a harried and abused subject.

There are so many texts, several of which have been cited here, that can bring an individual to much understanding. But the issue here is the need of a person of scholar to reflect on the theological, historical, and ambient writings associated with this period and the very many before. And, even more prevalent, a person who can understand the various ideologies and “religious” beliefs of this time as well as before. Given even that criteria, we are hard pressed to find a person of integrity that will not allow personal bias to jade an otherwise sterile approach.

One cannot just study the bible and books left out, of which I have found “Jasher” and “Mary” circumvent, without studying the Hebrew texts, ancient Sumerian texts, Greek, Norse, Visigoth, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc to come to a learned understanding. Even given this great task, one still has to have an understanding of civilization and education of the masses within each of these factions and time periods. What a very daunting task.

I will suggest one book that opened my path to a much broader understanding of political and monetary need for persons of power to implement certain sanctions. It is “Raptor” by Gary Jennings. While this book is considered “heretical” and fictitious, it is based on written “memoirs” of one individual who was court to a king during the early Roman-Catholic era and the demise of the Roman rule. You have to remember that at this time the church was trying to establish itself at the same time Rome was falling. Humanity seems to constantly replace one religion with another, ever seeking some truth that seems to ever elude. Or is it that it is replaced for us when we lose favor when the truth is never seen. There is so much I could elaborate on, but some journeys best served present.

You will be reluctant to admit that truth is not always found where you were told it would be. Often it is simply inside waiting to be heard. Believing is Seeing, Quite the opposite what has been brandished age after age.



[edit on 5/17/08 by rezial666]

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
In my studies I found Genesis 6 sorta puzzling and researched it a bit, I felt something was being left out, and it was, the Book of Enoch was the thing that was left out, I finally found this out and much later on read the Book of Enoch and found how the Bible supported it and it supported the Bible, books from the Bible even quote Enoch and things that happen in the Book of Revelation happen in the Book of Enoch, it's part of the Bible as far as I'm concerned.

I'm good with that and think there's nothing wrong with it. I think the issue is when these books are used instead of the Bible or used as a tool to try to contradict/invalidate the Bible. As you've attested, it doesn't contradict nor invalidate the Bible, rather suppliments it.

[edit on 19-5-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Evil Genius
This History Channel had a couple shows that dealt with this topic. I think it was called Banned From the Bible if I remember correctly.

This is the reason why I don't watch The History Channel. The "shocking revelation" of a title is a misnomer. There's a big difference between banned and not included. If you bought a tv, and the remote control didn't come with batteries, are batteries banned from it?

Originally posted by Evil Genius
Some books were left out because they didn't really fit in the order that was being established. They wanted to story to make sense to the reader and didn't want to jump around.

Some books were duplicates so they chose either one or the other.

These two are very solid reasons according to the canon.

Originally posted by Evil Genius
Usually they chose the one that fit with their idea of what the religion should be about.

The slant on this is suggesting that people were deciding what the Christianity is or isn't. In actuality, the text itself tells us what Christianity is and isn't both in the included texts and excluded texts.

Originally posted by Evil Genius
The last type were books that were just too dangerous to include. These were books that delivered a message that the priests did not want out in the public. One book (can't remember which one), basically said that everyone would be saved in the end regardless of what they had done. This type of message could not be out in the public since they would have no control over people's actions. If there truly was no punishment for doing something wrong, then what's to stop people from doing whatever they wanted. Way to dangerous so it was out of there.

I believe I know what sentence (because there was only one if I recall correctly) that commonly gets misread in this way. It'd be a big help if you could quote or refer to the one you're talking about so we can look at it objectively.

Here's an example of a similar verse that is in the Bible that commonly gets misread:

"This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." -
1 Timothy 2:3-4

Now, one can jump to the assumption that since God wants all men to be saved that God will save all men. The problem with this thinking is that we rationalize that God always gets what He wants. If anyone has been paying attention to what's been happening from Genesis chapter 3 to present, we know this isn't the case. In Genesis chapter 1 and 2, God got all He wanted, but not since then. There's a reason for this and would gladly go into detail if anyone is interested.

[edit on 19-5-2008 by saint4God]

I thought Id add somthing to this.

Maby they left the books out, because they inteded the Bible to both educate, and to make then better people.
Maby they didnt have some big bit of information in them thats going to destroy Christianity, but like, the information will draw away from the acutal purpose of the Bible.
Also, they may not have wanted you to learn about the afterlife, because if you know whats going to happen when you die, you may be a good person, only to get into heaven, not because you want to be a good person, and help people.