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The Crisis At Home

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posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by The Nighthawk
 


Yes, many have 2 & 3 jobs. Many work their butts off to provide for their family.

HOWEVER, many dont. So now we have to decide, who is deserving and who is not. Because I see MANY undeserving people driving new expensive SUVs with flashy rims while collecting welfare and not working.

Are you willing to be that judge?


Or should we just allow those people to continue to live off of YOUR money?

And again. How are you helping the needy Americans? What part are you doing? When was the last time you volunteered?


[edit on 14-5-2008 by greeneyedleo]




posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by greeneyedleo
reply to post by centurion1211
 


Not to be egotistical, but really it is a good point. LOL


Thread after thread of bitching about the horrible government butting into our lives. The government wanting to know EVERYTHING we do 24/7. However, if we want the government to support us and take care of us (roof over our heads, jobs, food, healthcare) then we are OBVIOUSLY welcoming it into our personal lives.......quite the opposite of what people really want.

And I do don't want more government controlling my life. I will support myself and I will do whatever it takes to survive. Unfortunately, the children suffer. But really, who's fault is that? Is it really all the governments fault.

Because I can tell you this. A few families down from me it is NOT the government's fault that the parents are lazy don't take care of themselves or their children and choose to live on welfare, etc.


More personal responsibility, less government.


The scary thing is some of these people actually work and are still homeless but they only make 6 bucks an hour and have no other family to help them out. I mean like I have said in other posts I worked hard and caught some lucky breaks and that is why Im in the position I am in but there are people who take risks and dont catch the break and find themselves homeless not all the homeless are lazy squatters.

As far as healthcare as long as the government who works for us gets healthcare paid for by us then everyone should get healthcare or subsidized healthcare...I pay $700 a month for insurance its ridiculous...that in itself would put a lot of people in the homeless shelter. If I have to pay for it the government should they work for all of us and if all of us cant afford insurance then they should have to pay also.

As far as defense Im all for a strong defense but the problem is when you spend the kind of money we are on defense you have to ask yourself are we building a defense to defend or a defense to offend. I mean we spend triple the next 3 countries behind us in defense I mean thats madness. We should be able to protect our borders and if someone comes over and wants a piece then they need their arse kicked but right now were fighting 2 wars trying to fight a 3rd with Iran and 2 of the 3 countries never invaded or attacked us. Thats not defense. We also have bases in 130 countries..why? This country was not founded to be an empire or a police the world.

Now the last part Im sure most will agree big government and their phony wars on drugs and prostitution I mean give me a break we spend 50 billion on those alone....I mean quit telling people what to do if 2 people want to bone and charge money then that is their choice or if someone wants to smoke something naturally from earth then they should be able to but the government doesnt want any competition



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by The Nighthawk
reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


Amazing, isn't it? And what the "conservatives" here always fail to realize is that for most of the people in these dire situations, it is NOT LAZINESS. These people have jobs, sometimes 2 or 3, and still can't make ends meet. Many of them were well-off but fell into poverty when America's manufacturing sector collapsed (thanks to Big Business writing its own legislation to do away with tariffs, creating its own tax breaks and loopholes, and generally tipping the scales in its favor through campaign contributions). The housing collapse is sending more people to join them every day.


That's what the "liberal manifesto" says anyway. But what is your direct experience with these people? GELeo was sharing some of her real-life experience, not quoting sound bites. And as for the housing market, who held a gun to the head of any of these people that took at very risky negative amortization loans on houses they knew they couldn't afford? I guess (as mentioned earlier) you want the government to take responsibility for that, too.


[edit on 5/14/2008 by centurion1211]



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by COOL HAND
That is because Americans are no longer willing to do the difficult jobs that need to get done anymore.


Where do you GET this BS? It's like you're channeling dead crazy people!


I mean seriously, you think nobody wants good jobs? You think it's all lazy working-class Americans' fault that illegal immigrants working for five bucks a day have taken over construction, working for greedy fly-by-night contractors in violation of the law?

Exactly what "difficult jobs" do Americans no longer want?


Nowadays the cheaper labor that is available can do it for them, with less risk.


And completely contrary to labor laws.


This is why unions need to go away.


Union-bashing!! How original!! Without unions you wouldn't even exist because your family would have died out three generations ago from crappy working conditions, 80-hour weeks and barely enough pay to put a loaf of bread on the table once a week.

Ye Gods, the foolishness that is Conservatism.

Bunch of selfish pr!*%s.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211


That's what the "liberal manfesto" says anyway. But what is your direct experience with these people? GELeo was sharing some of her real-life experience, not quoting sound bites.


Do you know what a libertarian is Centurion? You throw that word out like its some evil?



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by mybigunit

Originally posted by centurion1211


That's what the "liberal manfesto" says anyway. But what is your direct experience with these people? GELeo was sharing some of her real-life experience, not quoting sound bites.


Do you know what a libertarian is Centurion? You throw that word out like its some evil?


Do you?

For me, quite the opposite. After Bush, I feel I'm trending that way myself. Now if you meant to write "liberal" ...



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Yes, many have 2 & 3 jobs. Many work their butts off to provide for their family.

HOWEVER, many dont. So now we have to decide, who is deserving and who is not. Because I see MANY undeserving people driving new expensive SUVs with flashy rims while collecting welfare and not working.


And the reason that happens is because YOUR conservative "heroes" destroyed the enforcement mechanisms that were supposed to catch such abuses and put those people back in line. You foolishly accept the idea that "government is broken" when it's your own people who broke in in the first place, deliberately, for the express purpose of bringing you to accept this line of reasoning.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by The Nighthawk

Ye Gods, the foolishness that is Conservatism.

Bunch of selfish pr!*%s.


Ah, the name calling starts because they've run out of the sound bites that have been provided to them and don't have a clue of how to think of any more on their own.

That's how you can always tell that you've mentally beaten them like a dead horse.


[edit on 5/14/2008 by centurion1211]



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by The Nighthawk
 


I have no "heroes" that are in office. Sorry. LOL


And the "welfare" issue has been a problem probably before I was born. So, lets not blame it on the PTB...but blame it on those abusing the system.

Remember "personal responsibility" is key



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:17 PM
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Foreign aid, except that type trying to be given to Myanmar, is the number one worthless bribe, and it nothing more than bribes, that drags down everybody it touches. From the tax payers who's pockets its taken from to the despots and crooks it goes to. Defense budgets don't even get close to the money spent on this foolish endevour. 40% of our military are on food stamps and an average of 27% file for bankruptcy within they're term of service. That great meglomaniac Woodrow Wilson found out what being without our military on a sound footing was. FDR found out also. We cannot afford to get into that situation. Entitlements and massive single payer healthcare cannot be maintained in the manner we are trying to force down taxpayers throats. The government has no mandate under the constitution to undertake such an endevour.
Zindo



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by The Nighthawk
 




Bunch of selfish pr!*%s.




Reeeeeeeealy? You think so huh. Again, please answer: What have YOU done to help your fellow Americans who are in dire straights?

Then come back and tell me who is selfish.


Also, the name calling....reallly



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


No I mean you throw the word liberal or libertarian out there like we are some sort of evil people...Ill let you in on a little secret our founder fathers were libertarians...basically we believe in freedom and small government and the government that does exist is to serve the people not the people to serve them. I used to be a hardcore Bush loving republican after 9/11 then I woke up and realized man these guys tout small government, low spending, and freedom but then do quite the opposite. They spend money like its going out of style




They take away freedoms like its going out of style

eminent domain
patriot act
safety deposit box seizures and on and on

and they create even bigger government like homeland security and bigger dept of education and energy I mean give me a break. When I started adding all this up along with how after one of the biggest booms we had in history from 2003 to 2007 incomes for working class people went NO WHERE and that has never ever been done in history during a boom period...
You want more freedom and less government less taxes and strong currency vote ron paul or vote mccain and get your big government u ask for....



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by The Nighthawk
Where do you GET this BS? It's like you're channeling dead crazy people!

I mean seriously, you think nobody wants good jobs? You think it's all lazy working-class Americans' fault that illegal immigrants working for five bucks a day have taken over construction, working for greedy fly-by-night contractors in violation of the law?


Everyone wants a good job, but not everyone is capable of working a good job. There is a difference.



Exactly what "difficult jobs" do Americans no longer want?

Anything that requires them to work long hours for minimum wage.





This is why unions need to go away.

Union-bashing!! How original!! Without unions you wouldn't even exist because your family would have died out three generations ago from crappy working conditions, 80-hour weeks and barely enough pay to put a loaf of bread on the table once a week.

I did not say that unions weren't a bad thing in the past, just that they have become useless in this day and age. Now they are worried about the unions more than the workers they represent. I fully agree that they did some good in the past, but those days are gone.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by ZindoDoone
 


I agree on the foreign aid but thats because I dont think we should have to police or feed the world till our own backyard is cleaned. We clean that then we can be the police and kitchen of the world but frankly even when we get our backyard clean I dont think we should be doing it...



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:26 PM
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All these warmongers are going to get a proper kick up the behind when china starts doing this in the next few decades.

I wonder if they'll be bleating the same rubbish then as they are now, when america is bancrupt and on the recieving end of imperialism.

I doubt it.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
That's what the "liberal manifesto" says anyway.


Yeah, the "Liberal Manifesto". Like that part of the Bible where Jesus tells the rich to give up their money and serve the poor. Like the concept of keeping your own house in order before going overseas to bomb the Holy Hell out of innocent people. Like considering for a moment that the needs of Society must be met for the needs of the Individual to be protected. Like the idea of individual freedom not only guaranteed by Constitutional edict, but also guaranteed by not having to bust one's ass just to pay for basic necessities like housing and health care and having nothing left at the end of paying bills for anything else. Freedom comes from not having to worry about the basics of survival, not just from a guarantee made over 200 years ago that your own leaders no longer care about. Yeah, that manifesto.



But what is your direct experience with these people? GELeo was sharing some of her real-life experience, not quoting sound bites.


More than you might expect. As a repo man, a sometime reporter for the radio, as a LEO in training, and as a citizen of a monetarily-depressed area that is only recently, as I was leaving it, returning to some level of sustainability.


And as for the housing market, who held a gun to the head of any of these people that took at very risky negative amortization loans on houses they knew they couldn't afford?


Who held a gun to the banks' heads to support legislation allowing them to offer such risky loans in the first place, so they could have extra capital to invest in high-risk hedge funds? Oh wait, NOBODY!! In fact, they practically wrote that legislation themselves! They KNEW it was a house of cards from the start, but they were hoping the investments would pay off before the whole thing crashed. Now we ALL pay the price.


I guess (as mentioned earlier) you want the government to take responsibility for that, too.


If the government is going to use our tax dollars to bail out the banks (and make no mistake, they ARE), then yes, they should bail out the homeowners too.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Also, the name calling....reallly



Here I was just going to ignore that becuase it reeked of desperation.

It has been my experience that folks who have to use name calling here have already exhausted their brains and have nothing further of value to add to a conversation.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by The Nighthawk
reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


Amazing, isn't it? And what the "conservatives" here always fail to realize is that for most of the people in these dire situations, it is NOT LAZINESS. These people have jobs, sometimes 2 or 3, and still can't make ends meet. Many of them were well-off but fell into poverty when America's manufacturing sector collapsed (thanks to Big Business writing its own legislation to do away with tariffs, creating its own tax breaks and loopholes, and generally tipping the scales in its favor through campaign contributions). The housing collapse is sending more people to join them every day.


Meant to respond to this one before, but the page changed. Anyway, I still submit that you don't know or haven't been in contact with any of these people you are preaching about.

For example, I worked in downtown SF for 15 years. Now that is "homeless heaven" if there ever was one. Anyone who has ever lived there will be able to tell you endless stories about women who sit in train stations in the cold with a baby - a baby used as a shill to beg money when she could have easily taken the child to a shelter for warmth and food. Or the "veteran" that sits on a blanket all day with his pit bull (Petey) and a sign begging for money so Petey can get an operation. Try offering food or taking these people to McD's and they will turn you down because they want the money. For what?


Oh, but I forget, all those lazy people already working their butts off should just go to college and take out tens of thousands in student loans they may never be able to pay back, to get degrees in fields that won't even exist in five years when a Bachelor's won't be anywhere near worth the money and effort put into earning it. And they should do it all while under constant surveillance.


See above.


The Cold Civil War is heating up, and the militant Conservatives better watch their butts. Liberals aren't all tree-huggin' free-love hippies.


No, but I'll bet most of them at least used to be ...



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Also, the name calling....reallly


Every time YOU say the word "Liberal" you mean it as an insult. Don't lie, you know it's true. You start these attacks yourself. Deal with it.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Also, the name calling....reallly



Here I was just going to ignore that becuase it reeked of desperation.

It has been my experience that folks who have to use name calling here have already exhausted their brains and have nothing further of value to add to a conversation.


Nope. I just enjoy calling scum what it is. I have plenty more in the intellectual department. The name-calling starts with conservatives, and I just play the game my way. Don't start none, won't get none.



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