Was Hitler that bad?

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


You wrote:
"Why would a group of people choose to continue to "remind and teach" generations of people about something that happened (or did not) happen over 60 years ago??"
My take: A group of people chooses to teach their generations about things/events in history which are extremely important for understanding the truth about the world around them.What happened in Germany about 60 years back is extremely important for the Jews.Now nobody in their right minds can question that.Can they? It molded the Jewish history in an undeniable fashion and has determined the world perspective on Jewish affairs. Offcourse the new generations have all the right ot know the facts and the emotions associated with the holocaust.

You said:
"Then ask yourself THIS question. If it takes a modern cremation about 12 hours to completely turn a body into ash at 1200 degrees; how could Auchwitz (which had only 12 ovens) "process over 2 million" corpes in less than 2 years? How did Sorbibor "gas" Jews if the Jews themselves claimed they used a "diesle engine stolen from a Russian tank"?"

My Take:
At the risk of sounding arrogant;I think you need to get your facts right. It does not take 12 Hours it takes less than 30 Mins. I know this for a fact because I have attended 3 'modern cremations' .Now going by your logic;I guess 2 years is a long time.

reply to post by caballero


The U.N is corrupt, there is no denying that.

The truth of the matter is that yes the Jewish Religion did benefit in a social aspect from the war, and i don't think you're willing to go so far as to say it was intentional.

You appear to have a problem with looking at the actual facts of that time period, so i've decided to help you instead of exposing this thread for what it truly is.

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant

Originally posted by caballero

so stalin having killed 20 million people is still valid in my argument because twenty million people shouldnt be forgotten because of political stances. stalin was one of many including kim jong-il, pol pot, hu jintao, other leaders that have been genocidal.*

You knew the reason why stalin was not as condemned as heavily as Hitler, and yet you acted as if you didn't.

*That has nothing to do with what we are discussing here and Now.

Yes i knew and as i have said like three times now THAT IS NOT A VALID REASON TO NOT CONDEMN HIM FOR WHAT HE HAS DONE.

and that has everything to do with what we're talking about. i am trying to show that hitler, stalin, pol pot, hu jintao are all just as evil as one an other and we should not just focus on the evils of one of them.

you keep trying to ignore that stalin was evil with some nonsense reason that we forgive stalin because he is our ally or some crap, NO a man who murdered 20 MILLION! can not just be forgotten like that. your argument is not valid.
and what are you spouting out about? I DO NOT HAVE A BEEF AGAINST THE JEWISH COMMUNITY! I AM ON THEIR SIDE REGARDING THE HOLOCAUST. youre trying to turn my thread against me by making me seem like im some sort of neo nazi

[edit on 15-5-2008 by caballero]

reply to post by AryanWatch


how modern were their cremation ovens though? that would be interesting to know for the sake of an argument.

Originally posted by caballero

you keep trying to ignore that stalin was evil with some nonsense reason that we forgive stalin because he is our ally or some crap, NO a man who murdered 20 MILLION! can not just be forgotten like that. your argument is not valid.

My argument is not valid?

I ceased trying to argue with you quite some time ago, as i can tell that you will look for any opportunity you can find to turn any voice of reason that contradicts you into lies.

If you cannot argue your point in a civilised manner, then i'm afraid i'm going to have to consider the possibility you are nothing more than a liar, sir.

Originally posted by caballero
youre trying to turn my thread against me by making me seem like im some sort of neo nazi

[edit on 15-5-2008 by caballero]

Er, no, that would be your perception of the situation.

Since when did you have the ability to look at something and think "Yep, that's what he's doing, definately."?

It's quite a leap to go from "Is he saying what i think he is?" to "He's trying to make me out to be a neo-nazi".

You really do appear to be incapable of reasoning.

Originally posted by caballero
I DO NOT HAVE A BEEF AGAINST THE JEWISH COMMUNITY!

I didn't say anything about the jewish community, i said the Jewish Religion.

reply to post by caballero


No ma'm I beg to differ: It was not Islam it was Chengiz Khan.I have taken this from the internet:

Temüjin had killed the men who betrayed Jamuka, stating that he did not want disloyal men in his army. Jamuka refused the offer of friendship and reunion, saying that there can only be one Sun in the sky, and he asked for a noble death. The custom is to die without spilling blood, which is granted by breaking the back. Jamuka requested this form of death, despite the fact that in the past Jamuka had been infamously known to have boiled his opponent's generals alive.

If Islam was boiling people alive;I would need to see the evidence somewhere. I understnad that 'who boiled whom or not' is not important in this topic. Hitler is condemned more than others majorly because of the 'popularity' of WWII as an historical landmark,the literature devoted to the event and the political viewpoint for or against Germany which different countries hold. Everyone in the world knows Hitler. Saying anything in favour of Hitelr is asking for trouble. Whereas how many people actually know which part of Africa Sudan is for ex. or how many people know Temujin or how many people actually know about what happened in Somalia. I doubt there are many.

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant


this must be some sort of joke? i feel i have been more than civilized with your nonsense.
you cant excuse the man who killed 20 million people with the lame reason you think is so valid. where is the logic in your argument enlighten me please.
I dont know why but you've started about saying im against jews? where did you get that? and im the one who is wrong? this is possibly the worst joke i have ever had played on me.
i dont have a beef with their religion either and i am more than capable of reasoning and thats loads more than i can say for you.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by caballero]

Originally posted by caballero
hu jintao-
has stopped all resolutions on sudan from ever passing to protect assests to china while over 400,000 have died in sudan. china backs the sudanese gov't that backs the janjaweed which is the militia thats killing everyone.

It's funny...but I briefly brought that point up under a similar context as you have created in this thread. The idea of those that would prevent such horror from ever happening sitting by as this particular one takes place.

I was told essentially America was busy, and literally that our leaders don't care about a "bunch of Africans killing each other".

Of course the situation is much more complicated than that uninformed posters write-off comment would suggest, but it does show how we as a nation selectively decide what constitutes a tragedy...let alone a historical holocaust. Even one in the making, in our very own generation.

We are prejudicially conditioned to accept and disregard one horror over another.

Was Hitler bad?

Evil seems more accurate...but yes.
As evil as those you listed and not any more or less.

To answer your broader and less obvious question of whether or not we choose to highlight or ignore those horrors that do not directly affect us, whose victims don't remind us of our neighbors Dick and Jane across the street in any fashion then the answer is an emphatic yes.

The fact is no one cares if the victims involved are deemed worthless.

- Lee

Originally posted by caballero

you cant excuse the man who killed 20 million people with the lame reason you think is so valid.

So, which reason would that be?

I haven't tried to excuse Stalin's crimes even once.

Get your facts right.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by Anti-Tyrant]

reply to post by AryanWatch


first Caballero is spanish for gentleman, second ok but i was referring to islam karimov. he is listed on the human rights watch list for his crimes against humanity.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by caballero]

Originally posted by caballero

I dont know why but you've started about saying im against jews? where did you get that? and im the one who is wrong? this is possibly the worst joke i have ever had played on me.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by caballero]

No one is saying you're wrong either.

What i am saying is that You have purposefully deceived members of ATS for the intents of allowing individuals with anti-semitic values to spread their beliefs in a manner that appears wholly innocent.

Do you get me?

I am not even saying that anti-semitism is wrong.

I am saying that deceiving people is wrong and you would do well to learn why.

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant


i have told you more than once I did not start this thread to bash on the jews. Ever since the aryanwatcher guy came in here i have been watching his posts for anything close to praising hitler, because i did not set this thread up to bash jews or worship hitler. plain and simple i dont understand how you came to that conclusion.
read my first post, it says nothing about jews or that hitler was great. it says that hitler was evil but so were other genocidal leaders why do we only focus on hitler. stop playing around with my words and making my intentions out to be something they are not. Alright? i dont know how to be any clearer about this i do not want to bash jews or priase hitler on this thread.

reply to post by caballero


My problem is not the possibility of you bashing jews or praising hitler.

My problem is that you have deceived people(s) on purpose, which others can look at and think to themselves "This individual has lied to others, i wonder if there's any way i can do that type of thing and turn it to my own benefit".

Ignorance Breeds in Deception, no matter how mundane the Deception is.

reply to post by lee anoma


and its very sad to think that we put some humans lives over other humans lives, its absolutely disgusting. in my opinion hitler, pol pot, stalin are all the same kind of disgusting evil. thats why its strange to only focus on hitlers evils, like i discovered pol pot from a comedian. why hadnt i heard of him before?

reply to post by caballero


I understood your point and thanks for the reply.

Perhaps you should do that more to the people that are on subject (even if they disagree with you) and less to anyone trying to bait and pull you off track. Endless arguing back and forth is getting us all no where so just don't interact in the trap of semantics.

Cheers,

- Lee

reply to post by lee anoma


very wise words i also felt the same way and took our mindless arguing to u2u to try and resolve it with out having to bring the thread down. im sorry to everyone who were disappointed with that silly show, but we canstill move on from this and continue with good healthy debating on the subject at hand.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by caballero]

[from u2u]
now can we move on stop with the childish arguing and go back to the thread and debate like gentlemen?

Okay, once you tell me - and i ask this for what must be the dozenth time, Where did i defend Stalin's Crimes against humanity?