Fox footage vs Japanese footage

G'day!

This is the "Japanese footage"

YouTube Link

I don't know who shot this one (if you know please tell me)
It shows a "Plane" descending from just above the smoke from the right side of the screen, the speed looks pretty constant.
Then we have the infamous Fox "nose out" footage

YouTube Link

The plane seems to just "appear" after a zoom in and is nowhere to be seen in the wide shot.

If the Japanese footage is real, the plane should have been visible somewhere on fox's wide shot.

Have I got my math a little Twisted? or is the Japanese footage fake and the plane really did just magically appear?
Personally I think they both look a bit odd (i.e. fake)

It could be the angles of the film, but where the plane hits on the first one seems to be higher up then on the fox version. I think its just my eyes playing a trick though...anyone else see this?

reply to post by twisted-timothy

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This very subject is discussed in this video.

Google Video Link

reply to post by Boone 870

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Thanks Boone! this is exactly the kind of rational debating I was hoping for
Excellent find, the Hardline host looks incredibly familiar

reply to post by twisted-timothy

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You're very welcome. Part two of the debate can be found here. I have not watched it yet.

The host is Ron Wieck, he posts as pomeroo here and at the JREF forums. Be sure to check out some of the other videos on the Google link I provided, he has hosted several debates between conspiracy theorists and debunkers.

Watched the first part so far,
now even though I think poor Ace has an impossible task, to say the least, I just love to watch a civil and respectful debate or discussion. That was so refreshing regardless of the topic.
I wish Al queda and....whomever, could have dialog like that.

Nice find Boone, thats an awesome bit of footage.

thanks for posting

That link to part 2 actually goes to part 1. Do you know when part 2 will be online? I watched the first one and am very intrigued.

yeah i got lost there too....

the stuff i got lost in was just as good though

the question is WHAT THE HECK is that UFO/missile that zooms by in the Japanese video at about :08 of the video????

I agree. I was excited to see an even debate, except the host totally stopped that. His build up was basically saying, "Here's Ace, and he will be representing the crazies." He goes as far name calling the truth movement as "paranoics and fantasists." Of course he does that by saying "some would say." Fox news would be proud. Next, he tells a story of an obviously diluted person who makes a statement that Al-Queda is defending Israel. Immediately after that irrelevant story, he introduces Ace. This gives an impression that Ace and that person share the same thoughts. The host acts as if he has a show to present both sides equal, but then goes on to categorize the Ace guy as being just like everyone else he has talked to. By doing that, he sets a negative tone for one side and a positive tone for the other. After the horribly slanted lead in, he says he is going to shut up and let the guys talk, and then he proceeds in talking over just the Ace guy the entire time. Including interrupting Ace's beginning his presentation by again equating him with other people this host has met. The host is unbelievably biased and insulting to his audience. Obviously he feels his audience won't be able to make up their own mind after hearing the info, so he goes ahead and lets them know before any info is given which one is crazy and which one they should believe.

The actual discussion between the two gentlemen was great. Both made great points and had great rebuttals. The guy refuting Ace's claims was very respectful and pointed out what he agrees and disagrees with. As a result, Ace shows the same respect back. This is good healthy debate that should be taking place on many issues, not just 9/11.

The host needed to just lay down the premise of the show and let these two guys discuss. I actually appreciate someone offering a forum for two different view points, but I would never watch this show. The host seems to treat his audience like low IQ adolescents.

reply to post by Alethia

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This is part 2, sorry about that.

Google Video Link

Here's the direct link.

reply to post by Boone 870

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Thank you for the links, I think there was a very rational explanation for the chopper footage.

That shot was not done live on 9/11, but must have reached the Japanese later. I remember reading specifically about it. It was taken by an amateur far away from the towers in a parking lot (as it appears).

It's unique in that it's one of the only angles (if not the only angle) you can get a good sense for how fast these planes were truly going when they slammed the buildings. Every pilot I've heard thinks 500 or 600 mph in a passenger jumbo-jet is a pretty ludicrous speed to be charging towards a building a little over 200 feet wide, just because of how far you have to be to set the approach up, because making even slight adjustments at that speed in such a bulky aircraft can have horrible results.

I happen to have seen both tapes and I honestly think that the whole 9/11 thing is a big joke, and that goes along with Y2K and the 2012 thing all of it is a scam our country is savage enough to kill our own people so it wouldn't surprise me one bit if all of it was planned for some big cover up for some other event that is unknown to the public but one thing that actually stood out to me about some of the footage I've seen is the amatuer video of people saying it wasn't a plane that hit the second tower.

Well having watched part one of the debate, I was convinced about the analysis of the video they discussed--that is, the resolution of the chopper footage from Fox was too poor to capture the incoming jet--until I watched the Japanese footage.

That video is absolutely atrocious, the towers are just grey lumps and there is absolutely no definition of lower Manhattan, yet you can see the plane coming in quite clearly, and it is pretty damned big.

IMHO, you should have seen the plane in the Fox footage as well. I don't buy the "no planes" argument, I think it's bull, but there's something fishy with the Fox video (what a surprise).

reply to post by gottago

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The problem is that you can't compare the two different sets of films. For one thing if you notice in the Chopper "5 "footage, the background is more white. Looking at the footage of the Japanese film, the background is more blue. The *appearing* plane in the zoom shot, It has to do with the filters used. I thought there was a good demonstration of how the helicopter blended into the background and disappeared. 2 different sets of camera's 2 different sets of filters.

Also look at about 4 seconds in on the Wide Shot from Chopper "5", notice how even the large buildings next to the Trade Tower(the lower left of the Towers) seem a little blurred out? Then as the camera zooms in, we see them come into focus and almost appear.

Then of course, the speed velocity of the plane and the debris that shot out not matching makes the claims of Ace look rather amateurish.












[edit on 14-5-2008 by talisman]

There's no conspiracy here regarding the plane, sorry.

It's very simple. In the japanese footage the plane hits after 8 seconds, while in the fox footage the plane hits after 10 seconds, which means the japanese version is 2 seconds ahead.

This is the plane at the beginning of the japanese footage:

image source: http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/i6101n11.jpeg


(You can see the plane is at the very end of the smoke cloud.)


This is where the fox footage is at the same moment (remember, we need to add 2 seconds to sychronise both videos):

image source: http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/b28643q11.jpeg


(Already too far zoomed in to see the plane.)


In the japanese footage the plane then enters the dust cloud after 2 seconds:

image source: http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/i36252j11.jpg



It remains invisible for 2 more seconds, and then appears again at 4 seconds:

image source: http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/z618k11.jpg



And finally, this is what the fox footage shows at the same moment it reappears out of the smoke cloud in the japanese version:

image source: http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/a24415l11.jpeg



As you can see, there's nothing unusual about the fox version regarding the visibility of the plane.

But i notice the 2 structures at the beginning of the japanese footage, which could be from a bridge or funnels from a factory maybe, aren't visible in the fox footage. This could be due to the angle they where filmed but it seems strange to me. :/

image source: http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/l47934t11.jpg



I also noticed a litte flash or something a few hundred meters in front of the plane, which is very unlikely a reflection.

image source: http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/hackbart111/aaa-1.gif


Any idea what this could be?

reply to post by hackbart

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Good catch on the "FLASH", not sure what that is myself. It looks like a reflection of some kind, which is odd. I would love to see the high quality video of these.

Thanks Boone, great stuff.