'Quiet' U.S. Confession: Weapons were not made in Iran After All!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
The real quagmire will be when america pulls out of iraq and civil war begins. Thousands will be slaughtered and the middle east will be even more destabilized then it was prior to the invasion.

Take that to the bank!

I refuse to believe that. The facts point to the presence of the US as the primary destabilizing factor in Iraq. The civil war exists there now, and has been raging since we took over. There are now at least a dozen factions all fighting along tribal, religious, and political lines, there are Iraqi patriots who rightfully see us as occupiers, there are Al Qaeda terrorists (mostly backed by Sunni-led Saudi Arabia to prevent Iraq's Shiite majority-led government from fully coming to power and allying with Iran), and there are thousands who pick up a gun or set a bomb just because they want revenge for a loved one we or another faction killed or maimed. In this environment the best thing we can do is pull out. There is no victory. No endgame. No "success". To suggest otherwise displays ignorance of the history of the region, ignorance of the psychological and sociological issues at play, and ignorance of the plain, simple fact that this occupation is intended to continue indefinitely so profiteers can make money from spilled blood.

Originally posted by The Nighthawk
One of the things that people seem to forget, in rushing to judgment about Iran's motives in this mess, is that even if the weapons (or some of their components) did come from Iran it may not have been sanctioned by the Iranian government. How many Americans own AR-15s and similar paramilitary weapons legally? How many own grey-market weapons that are essentially identical to US military hardware? For those that do, does it automatically mean they got them from military sources with the blessing of the US government?

True. Iranian made does not mean Iranian government supplied. With that said, with all the rhedoric coming from Iran about "death to America" and their lack of concern to the US aligations of their weapons killing poeple in Iraq, I tend to be leaning to Iran's involvment. Perhaps not in this case, but overall...yes.

Originally posted by eyes2open
True. Iranian made does not mean Iranian government supplied. With that said, with all the rhedoric coming from Iran about "death to America" and their lack of concern to the US aligations of their weapons killing poeple in Iraq, I tend to be leaning to Iran's involvment. Perhaps not in this case, but overall...yes.

Where, exactly, is your source for this information?

Iran strongly refutes allegations of helping insurgents:

Iran on Monday dismissed as "illusive allegations" made by certain Iraqi and US officials over arms supply to Iraqi insurgents.

Foreign Ministry Spokesman Mohammad Ali Hosseini said such irresponsible allegations run counter to good neighboring ties between Iran and Iraq and Tehran strongly refutes them.

Source

As for the "Death to America" crap, can you find a source that isn't tied to or funded by a right-wing think-tank?

*Note: I need to address the Iraq situation to make my Iran point, sorry...

Well, I'm curious. My instincts say that if we were to pull out of Iraq quickly you'd see a lot of bloodshed and then a stability would be established in a few short years, while for us to bring this region (kicking and screaming) into the "Western fold" is going to take alot longer. The new indigenous order would of course be set up along the same lines as every previous order in the region: that is a civil war, perhaps perpetual but that will (is ) the norm there, with one or two top dog groups armed to the teeth with weapons and primitive ideals. And that is regional stability historically.

We should do an immediate withdrawal. Not becasue I personally believe it will save lives in the long run, but it's what most people want. Then, we'll see. We should insist on international transparency, but NO financial/material input to the region until they self-stabilize meeting a set of international criteria. (Sound familiar? That's because we've already done this and "they,"- being the inhabitants of the region- are content to remain in a noncompliant state and the UN will accept that. So be it, but it seems like a waste of time to make policies and expected standards without any ability to "promote" them... Several key UN nations continued to deal with Iraq even though Saddam was in blatant violation of some basic UN tenets.)

The Saudis ARE a huge factor/influence here, but that may change or should. (Another broad topic to addresses elsewhere...)

The Iranians. Well, "we" don't like them becasue they are trying to establish a modern civilization apart from the West. Sorta, (I stress "sorta") like Cuba. That is, a nation in compliance with MOST of the universally accepted rules of how people should be treated, but not totally wrapped up and party to Western economics and cultural influence.

That always pisses the guys in the board room off!!

[edit on 15-5-2008 by djerwulfe]

Oh poo... I forgot my original point. And it has already been made, but I'll put my spin on it.
It doesn't matter what the Iranian government is actually doing or not doing, or intending, etc. If they don't play ball, we will screw them, "evidence" or no. I mean if the US government actually gives a # enough to provide some type of case for penalizing/disrupting Iran to the American public, all they have to do is pay some guys to buy some Iranian arms and deliver them to Iraq. Or one of many other solutions. The truth is, based soley upon the geographic proximity there are in all likelihood materials of Iranian origin present, but, * as has been pointed out already, here* in reality that is a far cry from an Iranian State intervention or material support of military actions aginst US forces.

I have seen a lot of evidence that indicated that the Iranians want to be on peacful terms with the West, but truly the West only considers a nation to be non-hostile if they have Mcdonald's.

Still the drumbeat for more war goes on. Truely pathetic.

The Neo-cons who pushed the Iraq invasion are pushing this as well. The are nothing short of arrogant son of a bitches.

They pride themselves in their intelligence but their agenda is ideologically driven and they have no curiosity, no interest in the truth if it does not jive with their preconcieved conclusions.

Intelligence goes only so far... without curiosity, it doesn't count for all that much.