Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter

reply to post by ATruGod

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"You equate God with Order? If so thats quite the joke.

BTW exactly who's GOD are we talking about. We know that the different Gods of different Religions have different expectations."

many gods... this is why the world is exactly where it is... i dont mean to be rude or anything but that clearly is the joke. i dont understand how people can actually think that way, i would say my opinion on the matter and exactly what i think of people who think like that but im pretty sure its not allowed on here.

i would also like to add if there is a god, then clearly there is only one true creator... one god to us all... "our god". i actually think
"his chosen people" is actually laughable... yeah god created us all but the people on this or that continent he likes better.. i just dont get how these people can be so ummm how can i say this nicely.. "blind" ?

if so called "aliens" created us through test tubes whatever it is you want to believe then someone or something created them aswell. it is not different gods who expect different things because last i checked most the prohphets from each religion pretty much taught the same thing its just funny how this world preachs but never practices what they preach. it is not different gods its different religions trying to attach surtin rules/regulations and punishments etc... it actually makes me sick to hear most the retarded stuff that comes out of peoples mouths lately about religions.

if god loves all and forgives all who are these people to tell others they are going to hell? god is going to destroy you all etc... its actually annoying and sickening i seriously hope this world wakes up soon, because if we dont you can pretty much already tell whats going to happen to us.


[edit on 14-5-2008 by Reality..]

[edit on 14-5-2008 by Reality..]

reply to post by Reality..

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1) The telling others "Your going to hell." that is mankind's BS. If there is a higher power/god/prime mover/etc I seriously doubt it/he/she/them condone that silliness or perhaps??? Just because a religion says something does not mean it's married to the concept. Which is something I find funny about atheists. They pick and choose what to attack and make massive amounts of Strawmen, usually about somethings Christianity has said and apply it to all spiritual beliefs.

2) It is altogether possible there is multiple being as such. Belief is a powerful thing, and as I see it that is where you get some of these beings. Basically some sort of entity feeding off the power of a group's beliefs. After a sort.

3) You can kill the concept of religion. Isn't going to change mankind's capacity for greed.

reply to post by Solarskye

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Agreed on that last part.
Disagree, with you like I have said before, that killing the concept of religion would do any good. The nastiness that is possible for mankind to comit will not go away if you take away one of its excuses and in the end your not anymore moral than the worst of the abusers/excuse users.

[edit on 14-5-2008 by WraothAscendant]

no no dont get me wrong... i agree with u totally about destroying religion is not going to change humankinds greed/jealousy/hatred etc... i agree with u 100%,
but i think if we focused more on the "we are all one" and all that other stuff we could actually advance... don't get me wrong some of the teachings actually taght some good morals n ways to help us not only better ourselves but try to help others in the process aswell.

but thats not what anyone focus's on or try's to put forward.. they damn anyone else who has another religion or people who clearly dont believe in the whole religion thing all together... "girls should not wear this" or "you cannot show any part of your body" etc etc so many things even the religions hold there own followers down. i wonder what would really happen if people actually listened to some of what those "prophets" and "messiahs" taught how this world would actually be.

Try this for an interesting article by Einstein:

www.monthlyreview.org...

reply to post by Reality..

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I think in the case of at least one organized religion it would be commiting organizational suicide to actually try to follow what their great figure tried to teach.
Not naming any names though.


But that doesn't mean that all members of this particular belief system doesn't.

Yeah,I fall asleep at night thinking about the fate of my mortal soul,I am just that selfish......
This is supposed to be heaven on earth,but we keep missing the point,and it really has very little to nothing to do with god as we would like to believe he,it...exists,the god you all believe in is a fabrication of religion,which is a fabrication of man,which is flawed from it's inception because it is created by man...
I really like the happy christians who are like drunk children,who believe all this bull#.
I have no opinion on religion really,it is a mystery to me how people can have faith in such vaguearies.

reply to post by chiponbothshoulders

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Yea go ahead and keep patting yourself on your ideological back.
So, wheres the proof there is no such being as a higher power?

Einstein is right on this case.

There is no God as explained by religions and in diversing so much, the religions explaining that God must also either be incinerated (to put it nicely ) or accept that they are wrong and begin teaching the truth about existence.

When the proof for God surfaces (which it never will) besides in the delusional minds of a select faithfully subjective religious billion on this planet (or even elsewhere, if you wish to argue so much), then we can all go back to our happy little churches and ignore logic and universal science.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

I come from a relatively unique upbringing.

From day one, my parents did not raise me, or my siblings, with any mention of religion or the notion of God. We never went to church. They didn't talk negatively about religion, but more importantly they didn't drill their belief systems into our minds. They were just neutral on the subject.

In my teens, and on my own, I started to contemplate spirituality with no preconceptions about various belief systems.

Mainstream western religions, based on Christianity, were non-starters. What struck me from the beginning was how they were fear based, controlling, and as Einstein said childish.

Eastern religions made more sense to me. I grew up near the ocean and mountains and have always had a love of nature. Taoism has been the closest I've come to embracing an "organized" religion. Though I would call Taoism spiritual and not religious.

One thing I realized about myself is that no matter how long I thought about the meaning of God, or studied various religions, I never was able to cross the line and have absolute "faith" about a supreme being.

On a good (spiritual) day I might have a 99% belief in something spiritual.

However I never had 100% certainity in God.

Why is that?

I wasn't brainwashed with organized religion as a child.

To subject a child to any organized religion, before they can form their own opions as a free thinking adult is a terrible thing to do as a parent. Garbage in, garbage out.

As a wise sage once said. If the religous fundamentalists spent as much time studying quatum mechanics as they do studying the bible, the world would be a better place.

In reply to midtown5dw and others,

Man oh man would I LOVE to have a cup of coffee with you and discuss these matters for hours. I do so weekly and regularly with scholars, athiests, agnostics, and everything in between.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, technically, whatever you label yourself as, you belong to that group that claims that label, and in a sense every group has a religiousity to it. And if a number of people who represent "your group" doesnting wrong, the rest of the members of your labeled group will be stereotyped by that fault of a few

I agree with you 100% that in todays world technology and ease of living has gotten us far off of instinct and spirituality in general. Add to this materialism, egotism, corporate fascism, the list goes on and on....so much so that there are very few, "genuine" people in todays world.

Now this next part is directed more toward others posts: I hate religion just as much as the next guy, and from being a young buck/lad, I've been told what to believe and never took it serious. But, to genrealize and say religion is responsible for all ill wills of the world, thats a false statement. I'm not trying to protect religion, I'm just saying if you look past the literalism, disregard the dogmatists, and ignore the religion part, there are truths within that will lead you to God.

I could just as easily say, I hate science because of the atomic bomb and all the people Killed. Thats an ignorant statement on my behalf because in hating all of science because of the bomb, not to mention science also has literal right winged dogmatists also,....that would be me disregarding the whole subject of science and in doing so, I would be missing out on the beauty of strings, higgs bosons, quantum fields, infinite mathematics, hawking, einstein, and so forth.

So by grouping religion and putting into a negaitive dogmatic box, your completely missing the point of whats in-between the lines.

Not only that, were you to reach a spiritual experience and enlightenment some how as an athiest, agnostic, or philosopher.....upon reaching that state without any religion at all....you would automatically look past the dogma and crimes of "people" that claimed religion and would find truth in Jesus, in the fact that Buddha did reach a form of enlightenment (he came before Christ) and you would automatically begin to comprehend the reality of miracles and the fact that all of existence is just as much spiritual as it is physical.

But because of groups of ignorant and evil egotistical individuals that "supposedly" represented God or a certain religion and made it look bad, you take the messages behind it as being what those false people were....false and full of lies....which isnt always the case

A gun is nuetral. A cop uses it to protect, a murderer to kill, but in itself it's nuetral. Writings about God and how to reach enlightenment are ultimately good, but we can even say they are nuetral....... but if you have a psycho walking around representing it...it's very easy to mistaken the psycho for the message.

Of course a true philosopher and intellectual will ALWAYS look past dogma, religion, literalism, and the negative actions of others. Did science create the bomb and kill people or did people create the bomb and kill people.

Let's not get distorted here, the way most of you seem to be viewing this matter. If you genuinely from your heart tell God that you are seeking him (or set that as a desire within yourself), believe me....your whole life will unravel in ways you never thought possible....but like a philosopher you have to have an open mind and pay attention to everything and every situation around you.

There is no such thing as coincidence. Everything is specifically tied together like a huge interactive puzzle and we are all united in ways that you dont even believe.

I claim 100% that the truth is that God is real and I have an interactive relationship with this God. I personally know him and Love him like a father because I experienced first hand the truth that I have a soul and he made that aspect of me, as well as creation all around me. Everything you look at has a design to it and is intelligently constructed.

Whereas the majority of you arguing against me HAVE NOT sought out and experienced directly whether God exists or not. Your all full of second guesses and speculations, and until you begin to genuinely seek for yourselves from your whole being whether God exists or not, you will remain within those guesses and specualtions, unbeknowingly while others walk this planet knowing 100% the truth of his existance..... but you second guess them as crazy and wrong. Then when you reach your death bed....your whole frame of mind changes...I garuntee you the way you think and things you are saying now....wont be so on the death bed at old age.

But this is the nature of our planet, of human beings, depending on how we are brought up, the filters that we use when we are presented with any stimulus, be it any subject or object, opinions are inumerable.

We live in a duality, where we have polar opposites of opinion...but only 1 side is correct in all matters...well partial correctness also exists.

But....God either exists or doesnt. Only one side is right. I know with my entire being he does and there is no such thing as faith in my life....my faith is replaced with truth. And there is such a thing as absolute truth.

To say there is no such thing as absolute truth...makes this statement absolute.

God is 100% real and I'd bet my soul on that one.

reply to post by dominicus

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just want to have a brief unbiased say. Forgive any excess use of rhetoric.

0] For the atheist what is the purpose of life? Why not just commit suicide since youre just wasting time with goalless life. No one will puish you.

1] I know that noone knows.

2] Couldnt the aliens who supposedly created us have infinite knowledge and capability alike God. Isnt it possible some civilizations ot there can move galaxies around instead of building space ships and even more survive a supposed big bang? Above Sin and need for distraction.

3] God is beyond us. Why cant we humans accept fatality? why are ppl so bent on afterlife? I expect to live a satisfactory life then die and disappear. God surely cant have anything against that.

4] Recently I have been interested in the concept of time. Never really paid attention but now I know that there is no past or future, just a dynamic cycle man has tried to chronicle. I wonder what ppls take on this is.

5] God is not perfect or all knowing. He created Adam but little did he know then that Adam would need Eve. He is an experimenter. He effectively has no divine right nor does he know everything to come.

7] Couldnt The Jesus of AD0 be the antichrist.

8] What did he come to redeem us from? I wasnt there when some ancestor called Adam ate some sort of forbidden fruit. Nor was I there when Cain Killed Adam. We are all independent. I shall not let myself be punished for some fault 3000 years ago. I dont need a redeemer.

9]Most Importantly, We did not chose to be created which beats the purpose of freewill. Life is an imposition not a gift. If God sends me to hell for these comments despite having loved my neighbour, remained a virgin till heterosexual marriage, having had good conscience..... then really hell be it knowing that those in heaven are not there justly. Some guys live the life of a hermit in a monastery and then they claim to withstand temptation.wow. fantastic.


I feel the most righteous human living is that which least harms oneself and others period. No Bibles or Quurans. It is truly impossible to be perfectly humble. IF you are so you r not human.

reply to post by dominicus

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Perfect construction does not require a God. It simply is, belief in a creator or not.

Perfect structure is because of the integrated laws of the universe working cohesively and coherently, as they always and only will.

As for souls and etc. You're entitled to your opinion although it means absolutely nothing when it comes to facts. If you want to prove a soul to the world then become a scientist, lest you'd have us blindly follow your lead like so many other tyrants (not calling you a tyrant, but do you understand where us citizens and Humans sit on blind faith? That's all it's ever done to us, if you want us to believe, or at least to believe what you say, then prove it).

And as for betting your life that God exists... well you've already done so.

To be honest I've been involved in a lot of these Godly threads lately and it's really giving me a headache. I can't even begin the psychological diagnosis that I'd love to infuse here.

Mt intellect and time are better spent elsewhere than arguing with those who wish to exalt mere subjective opinion above objective science.

I agree that believing in this invisible diety may comfort you, that doesn't mean it exists.

Ever had someone lie to you because they thought it'd make you feel better? Because maybe you couldn't handle the truth. That's what God is.

In reply to anonymous ATS:

0) The purpose of an athiest is the same as everyone else's purposes. Life is classroom for the soul an the athiest plays a part in this grand play of duality. Suicide sucks and is a selfish and immoral way out. Everything has a purpose and is precious/priceless including you.

1) For you to say that you know that no one knows implies that you know everything about every person's, in existence, knowledge. That would require some hard core computing power to be able to know what everyone knows.

2) If aliens exist, they are aware of God. For them to have the same intelligence or any other characterstic of God would require that chracterstic to be infintely processed, being that God and all his aspects are infinitely never-ending. Sin and distractions are a whole nother matter...to be answered in one of the next few numbers.

3) Yes God is beyond us, but also with all of us, and we all live within God. It's a matter of adjusting your vision, consciousness, and senses to be able to see that God is real. He is personal and approachable. Anyone can accept fatality fine and dandy, but the issue here is that upon death you automatically enter the after life. You cast of your flesh and continue as consciousness. In this matter you have no say as non of us do. We all will continue on. God doesnt have that against you being a fatalist, because he knows this is where you currently are in your spiritual growth. Just like when you have kids, even if they stay in a limited way of thinking, you will still love them and acceot them.....however I'm sure you give them a nudge to be able to surpass the box their in.

4) Yes time is an illusion. Because of physical decay and the pull of gravity on matter, amongst other things...we have time. But take away solid matter, gravity, and other factors and there is only the present moment. This has been spiritually spoke of around the world for millenia.

5) Your take on God not being perfect perhaps comes from the Old Testament which is highly controversial. Some early Christians say the God of the OT is a demiurge and not the true 1 God above all Gods that Jesus came and represented. I hear you completely on this topic. Yet from my experience he is perfection and he is experiencing himself through every possible possibility, both physically, spiritually, infinitely, eternally, multi-dimensionally, and so forth.

6) You skipped number 6 and went to 7

7) Jesus couldnt have been the Anti-Christ. If you follow his teachings/precepts you will transcend yourself and enter spiritual enlightenment. The anti-christ wants everyone to remain within vices, ego, addictions, lusts, anger, killing, evil and so forth. There is no Love in the anti-christ. Judge a tree by it's fruits. Jesus' message was pure, but than evil dogmatists took it and polluted it with their own views and ways.

8) Jesus redeemed us from a fallen state. Something happend in the Garden of eden. Before, man kind had a 1 on 1 close and personal relationship with God, we were in tune with nature so much so that people roamed with lions and tigers unscathed, we had access to spiritual realms and so forth.

Something happened and mankind got tricked into a fallen state....the Bible is simply symbolically telling of the trickery and fall of mankind. Is it fair for us to inherit the fallen state due to adam and eve's mistake??? yes and no.

It's not fair because its their mistake not mine. At the same time it is fair because there are some actions by people that result in reactions that affect others who had nothing to do with it. For example the atomic bomb affected many who were against all war and fighting...and so forth.

Because of adam and eve humanity is basically simply in a fallen state of spiritual sleep. Jesus came to wake people up. In this fallen state mankind is no different than an animal or a dog succumbing to selfish lusts, emotions, addictions, egotistical, and other lower natures and vices.

Following spiritual precepts leads us to eventually transcending this lower nature completely and first hand experiencing God and pure Love.... and restoring us to a state of being before adam and eve caused the fall. Plus in a way its a huge global interactive adventure as far as who wakes up and who sleeps spiritually through out their whole lives.

Yes athiests and other spiritual sleepwalkers do show at times unselfishness, love, help others, for the sake of their kids or wives...will transcend their own needs, and so on.....these are all proofs that within and all around us is a divine nature and spiritual reality. Its these little notions that seperate us from apes.

9)Being created a human being is an AWSOME gift. If you stop taking existence for granted, every single breath is a mini miracle. Look around....its amazing to be able to comprehend, and bring into the world a child, and strive for spiritual awakenings, and it goes on and on.

But being stuck in limited perspectives, addictions, lower animal nature, hatred, greed, ego, lusts...these are all traps that keep us down and keep us sleepwalking to the ultimate reality that is all around us.

Monks in a monastery withstanding temptation is just one aspect of that life style. If you can withstand these things than you are master of your self, if you cant than you are a slave to them. Monks are spiritual and self scientists. They study how far the psyche can go within God and when they experience things, these experiences objectively corespond to the experiences of other monks...so we have objectivity.

It is possible to be perfectly humble. Spiritually speaking any virtues are possible to reach 100%. If chess player can reach master status through years of study, so can mastering humblness be achived 100%.

You can try to be righteous, not harm others, and so forth, but you are still batttling with sleepwalking, and are still unaware of God. Worst yet is being tricked by your own ego, your own intellect, and staying there for the rest of your life.

Again there is spiritual truth that can wake you up to if you read between the lines, and look past dogma. You can either try to be the best you can be in a limited and sleepwalking state of being, or you can crush all your old limited ways into dust and take off like a soaring eagle on the wings of transcendence and divine realities.

Once you experience the divine....you'll yell at yourself for not going through the change earlier in life. God is real

in reply to LastOutFiniteVoice,

Perfect construction does require God, because God is within all things and sustains all things. Where he to pull back out of any matter or construction, it would cease to exist...it would be a void.

I know souls exists because I have experienced my own and am aware and able to manipulate my own. There are many others that have written about this same instance....so I dont live on faith but I live on experiencing truth directly and knowing it to be true.

Science doesnt study spirtual sunstances, the soul, and spiritual realities. So it is limited. But where science stops short of, we have spiritual scientists in monks that prove objectively and beyond faith that God exists because they experience God and when they have written about these subjective experiences, and we compare them to those of others who sought God...since all the experiences are almsot exactly the same...we have a phenomonon and level of objectivity.

I have proven to myself and many aroud me in my personal Life that God exists and have helped many athiests to see the light and become knowers that God exists.....faith and belief is for children.

Science is limited and does not seek God nor anything that has to do with spiritual topics. So why go there for proof of God???? I went to those who sought God and with discernment looked past dogma and fake priets and found a high level of operational life knowledge that when put to practice opened the doors of Infinity and realities of God.

You sir, have not undertook this undertaking and are therefor operating in limited level of operation. You see you get headaches from these threads because your fundamental logic and reason operational mode will not let you comprehend something that requires a moment of transcending logic and reason to make sense of it. These topics throw a wrench into dogmatic logic and reason... these are moments where the machine taht is your current state of being gets the wrench tossed into into and almost brakes it.... but your so used to the machine that you refuse to upgrade it...let alone realize that your machine is recieiving energies and currents that allow it to operate.

Whereby you can choose to operate in your limited machines, or realize where the electricity is cmming from, follow it through the wires to the source of the electricity. Then when you get to the source......you become one with the electricty.

It's basically a matter of all of us being Neo and most athiests refuse to take the red pill because they think this matrix is real. Whereas spiritual disciplines and practices are all red pills that brake you out of the matrix.

Its not that believing in an invisible diety comforts me...its that a real God exists whether anyone chooses to see so or not. Nobody but God has a say so into this really.

I have had many people lie to me to make me feel better but I know the truth that God is not that. Its a matter of you lying to yourself that God is not real so that you can belivie that you are God or that your intellect is God or that your addicitions, vices, or whatever else you idlize is your God.

He is 100% real and subjective truth is still truth. Science is not God, is limited, and does nt know everything...so I cant for the life of me figure out why do you look for science to prove your God??? What if it takes another 1,000 years before science finally admits God to be a fact.

I hope you understand the natur of this argumanet, which I am ultimately stating as fact that God exists and he is the red pill. So symbollically you are argung against a bunch of people who have taken the read pill, no the truth, no the matrix is not real, and live with this truth daily.

Whereas you have taken the green and and are arguing that a red pill doesnt even exist. How can you know this if you havent taken the red pill????? Your ultimate argument is philosophical infinite loop that you can remain stuck in for the rest of your life.

I find this amusing that the follwers of Einstein do not mention Heisenbrg's
or Heisenbergs uncertainy.

Or how about "God does not play dice."
Einstein was "famous" for defending Ood in an "uncertain world".

Peaace to you and yours.

Maybe because it's hardly news? Everyone knows of Einsteins objections to the Heisenberg principal.

[edit on 22-5-2008 by kegs]