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Bill Moyers: Every American should have 'Cheneycare'

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posted on May, 13 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by donwhite
Who or what agency has been responsible for raising the bar on health care standards and elementary items such as good record keeping? I could write a full page on the essential contribution made by LAWYERS to America, but it is already common knowledge to the informed.



Aren't trial lawyers also part of the reason that health care costs so much?

I believe there should be a cap on money awarded in malpractice cases, this would help bring down the cost of the doctors malpractice insurance, doctors pay up to $200,000 a year for malpractice insurance. Doctors that have never been sued STILL have to pay a huge price for this insurance! Is this fair, no!

And why do doctors charge so much, well, they have to make $200,000 for insurance before they even start paying for their supplies, instruments, office help, rent, ...

Do lawyers want to see a cap put on malpractice settlements, hell no!

Lawyers are most to blame for these high insurance premiums, pushing for larger and larger settlements to fill their pockets.

Do lawyers help to raise the standard of our health care, agreed, do they also help RAISE the cost of our health care, definitely!

[edit on 5/13/2008 by Keyhole]




posted on May, 13 2008 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by RedGolem

So what do you think should be done about health care costs?


Sheesh, there's a lot of threads about healthcare today. I posted a thread on it with an idea on how to fix the rising cost of healthcare a while back, so once again, here's the link: Healthcare for all!

Enjoy.

TheRedneck



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 02:53 PM
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I have an idea: The notion that lawyers are partially to blame for the rising health care costs is I think putting the cart before the horse. Here's Why;

The next time you are going to go for a procedure (this is what gives rise to MOST medical malpractice lawsuits) ask the doctor how you could go about having the procedure videotaped. Rarely, some may entertain the idea, MOST will not. After the doctor is done squirming and writhing, let him explain WHY he or she won't perform such a procedure under video recording.

Then ask yourself, how confident is this doctor about his skills? Next tell him you would like to, from this point forward, record your medical visits. Assuming he or she does not have you removed or simply walk out themselves. Ask yourself. Why does medical malpractice insurance have to be so high? Could it be because most doctors are following a 'flow chart' of 'common practice protocols' and thus rolling the dice regarding your health? Unless your condition rises to the point of being obvious, what makes you think it anything more than a game of statistics? Thats why insurance costs is high, because when doctors fail, their failures negatively affect a human life and the consequences can be economically devastating to the doctor. They are called actuarial tables and they are the best friends of insurance companies.

The medical profession as it is today has been totally co-opted by the corporate mentality. The less wealthy you are, the more likely your 'regular' physician has a quota imposed upon them for billing. There is no time for creatively tailored health care any longer, it's mostly a 'try this' or 'try more of this' or 'let me refer you to a specialist.' A 'specialist' means more of the same at a higher cost to you and the insurance company because the risk of failure is that much higher.

Lawyers are merely the opportunists feeding off the inevitable failure in the mathematical model insurance companies have adopted to deal with 'negative outcome'.

None of this explains why profit on a pill is in the order of magnitude of 100,000 to 1. Or why a freely donated human organ can run in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Or why my GP should get a 25 dollar co-pay, but the cosmetic surgeon in Beverly Hills should get 300.

And in all this, how is it that doctors can mangle or kill their patients through mismanagement and hubris (they like to call it clinical detachment) and never face any consequences. THEY get to have insurance for that.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


Well said Max I agree there are issues in regards to doctors and their work. I also agree that in SOME instances the lawyers chase ambulances and look to sue for little to no reason for the sake of cashing in on someone elses misery. I agree though the doctors dont help the situation out at all in some cases.

There is no reason pill makers need to make the profits they do. But as long as they have to satisfy the shareholders you and I will have to pay the premium. Its ugly but the truth.

Our healthcare system is so flawed that there really isnt an easy answer no matter how you put it. My mentality is if the government gets healthcare then why shouldnt we I mean we pay their bills. I know its big government and its against what I usually say either get the government to get their own health insurance or give it to us all.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by mybigunit
My mentality is if the government gets healthcare then why shouldnt we I mean we pay their bills. I know its big government and its against what I usually say either get the government to get their own health insurance or give it to us all.



I agree, why do my taxes pay health insurance for somebody who's working for me, when I can't even afford it for myself! (Hell, it's not like they are doing a good job and deserve it!)

I guess all we can do is gripe about that though, it's not like they are going to read this and see OUR point of view and understand where we are coming from stating this. Nor would they probably even care!

[edit on 5/13/2008 by Keyhole]



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by Keyhole
 



(1) Aren't trial lawyers also part of the reason that health care costs so much? I believe there should be a (2) cap on money awarded in malpractice cases, this would help bring down the cost of the doctors malpractice insurance, doctors pay up to $200,000 a year for malpractice insurance. (3) Doctors that have never been sued STILL have to pay a huge price for this insurance! Is this fair, no!


1) Yes. It's called "defensive medicine." I have heard anti-lawyers say 15% and I have heard lawyers say 7%. Because it is partly subjective, it is very hard to "know" just how much law suits add to medical costs.

One thing we do know is that defensive medicine has resulted in many people learning about other conditions early enough to benefit from treatment, so we ought to add the number of lives saved into the equation.

2) Damages are of three kinds. Special damages are those expenses actually incurred or reasonably to be incurred. If you cut off a young guys leg, you can figure every 10 years he'll need a new prosthetic device. General damages are usually called pain and suffering. This is why you will hear people argue whether the victim died instantly or lingered on. A quick death is cheap, but a prolonged death is costly!

Punitive damages.
A civil penalty. When the defendant's conduct is especially egregious, the jury may add a punitive damage award. Say your surgeon comes to the OR intoxicated but he operates on you anyway, leaving his scissors inside your tummy. This foreign object causes you weeks of excruciating pain and you're forced to submit to a second operation to remove the scissors. All operations are dangerous. 50 patients out of 10,000 die on the table for no apparent cause. The jury might add a million dollars to warn other doctors to stay sober or stay out of the OR. Trial judges usually cut unreasonable awards substantially to be more consistent with the injuries suffered.

3) Good drivers have to buy insurance too. I am not privy to malpractice insurance costs, but I question that many doctors are paying $200K. That sounds like a heart transplant doctor. Or the proverbial brain surgeon. I think most doctors pay $20-$50K depending on their specialty.

But I have never seen a real doctor who closed his doors due to the cost of his liability insurance. Methinks this is an Aesop Fable complaint. An urban legend. But this is a diversionary argument at its best and an intentionally misleading argument at its worst. I have also heard that 80% of malpractice is never acted on by the patient-victim.

FACTS. More facts.
On insurance premiums this would be one of the easiest areas to furnish FACTS. How many doctors pay X number of dollars versus how many doctors pay Y number of dollars. How many claims. How long in practice. How many patients. And etc. All of those FACTS figure into premiums. For all I know, the $200 K premium mentioned may be LOW?

[edit on 05/05/2008 by donwhite]




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