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Bill Moyers: Every American should have 'Cheneycare'

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posted on May, 13 2008 @ 07:13 AM
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Bill Moyers: Every American should have 'Cheneycare'


rawstory.com

Moyers reports that nurses are now among those at the forefront of the battle for affordable health care for all Americans.

The California Nurses Association (CNA) criticizes such "Cadillac healthcare" favoritism and contrasts it to the limited options afforded to the majority of Americans. The CNA has launched an ad campaign saying that "if Cheney were just a regular American, he'd probably be dead by now."

(visit the link for the full news article)



Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
How many of you have health insurance?
The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care (& Other Refs)




posted on May, 13 2008 @ 07:13 AM
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This is an issue that has been around for a while. Sky rocketing health care costs, and many people crying that the government should step in and take care of everything. I don't necessarily think that is the answer. Namely when you look at some of the fraud and corruption in the system. Also if the government is going to take care of all of our health care needs, then the government can have some say in how healthy your living is. That will not go over to well. So what do you think should be done about health care costs?

rawstory.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 07:53 AM
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Yes, sadly Cheney, as the host body for a hyper dimensional reptilian entity, has many benefits to which the slave class simply does not have access.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 07:58 AM
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I think its probably a disaster in the making. Afterall, what does the government have its hand in that isn't a total mess? Not a lot. But, what the hell, lets give them another $200-300 billion a year to flush down the toilet because that $2.5 trillion we currently give them just isn't enough.

That's not to say that our current system isn't screwed up. It is. What should be done about it? Honestly, I have no idea, but I do know a bad idea when I see it. This is a bad idea.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by RedGolem
 


Sky rocketing health care costs, and many people crying that the government should step in and take care of everything. I don't necessarily think that is the answer. Namely when you look at some of the fraud and corruption in the system. Also if the government is going to take care of all of our health care needs, then the government can have some say in how healthy your living is.


Q. If you "know" eating a super-sized Big Mac with trans-fat fried French Fries every day will KILL you and or cause you to incur humongous medical bills 20-30 years out, should not someone DISALLOW you (or me) to commit suicide on the slow? AND at the expense of others?

Americans remain as Carnation Milk cows, contented, and are generally wistfully oblivious of the struggles every nation has gone through to elevate health care into a HUMAN right and NOT a profit opportunity as it has always been here. It is as if we are PROUD of our ignorance. It's mostly due to our over-fed anti socialist propaganda barrage from almost every source. America has been under a RED SCARE since 1917.

Many medicines sold here are actually made in Ireland. So why should a medicine made in Ireland cost $60 in the US, $30 in Canada and $20 in Germany and France? And I assure you, the Canadians, Germans and French are much more careful of the purity of medicines used in their countries than Americans are here. US Government LIES to the contrary notwithstanding.

Which of course the current system makes the PMA - Pharmaceutical Manufacturers Association - very happy. The FDA recently testified before Congress that 1) “Active” ingredients in America’s medicine industry are made in over 2,000 foreign plants scattered around the world. The FDA tries to make ONE annual inspection of each plant but admitted it did NOT now the address of some of those plants. 2) It was strongly implied in the testimony that DUE to lack of ADEQUATE staffing, the FDA was NOT making the annual inspections on time if at all. Lack of staff is THE singular achievement of the Reagan Revolution.

America is paying about 18% of its GDP for health care. Nearly TWO times as much as any other nation on the planet! If we had the world's BEST health care, that could be excused, but we DO NOT have the best health care. By all measures of a nation’s health, we are in the low teens to upper teens in outcomes depending on what standard you employ.

BUT, there is no other nation on earth were all MEDICAL doctors make a million dollars every 2-3 years even if incompetent. We have NO way to check on medical competency OTHER than the ATLA!*

The ATLA is America’s ONLY consumer safety watchdog!


*American Trial Lawyers Association.

[edit on 05/05/2008 by donwhite]



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 08:17 AM
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reply to post by donwhite
 


What gives the government the right to tell anyone how to live their life or what they should or shouldn't eat? Nothing. If they want to eat a grease burger or smoke a cigarette, that's their right, IMO. That doesn't mean I should have to pay for their choices, mind you.

As for the trial lawyers, well, they're about the only group that I trust less than the pharmaceutical industry in this country. That's another topic, however.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 08:35 AM
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reply to post by vor78
 



What gives the government the right to tell anyone how to live their life or what they should or shouldn't eat? Nothing. If they want to eat a grease burger or smoke a cigarette, that's their right, IMO. That doesn't mean I should have to pay for their choices, mind you.


The RIGHT? Simple, K N O W L E D G E. And therein lies the rub. Before there was 307 million of us. Before we had 3.8 million square miles. Before we had refrigeration. Before we had a good understanding of diseases and the means of transmitting such between people, we could do no better.

Now we KNOW so much more. There have been laws against suicide - I oppose such laws as violating the First Amendment - but almost all societies CARE enough about their fellow citizens to try to do them no harm. When Mr Crock bought the Golden Arches we did not know what we know today.

As for the second point. Anecdote. In the largest cities of India, every morning at the crack of dawn, flatbed trucks roam the neighborhoods for dead bodies mucking up the streets and walkways. The dead are unceremoniously tossed on the truck to be carried to a great cremation place where the day’s “catch” is burned to ashes.

Assuming we do not want to re-run that scheme of disposal here in the RICHEST country on earth, all of us are FORCED to pay for the sins of those who care not about themselves. The whole of us - represented by the government - will not let a person do that to himself or herself. I hope!

As for the ATLA. Who or what agency stopped the SWING axle Corvair? Who or what agency has constantly brought engineering defects to the public’s attention? Who or what agency has been responsible for raising the bar on health care standards and elementary items such as good record keeping? I could write a full page on the essential contribution made by LAWYERS to America, but it is already common knowledge to the informed.

[edit on 05/05/2008 by donwhite]



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by donwhite
reply to post by vor78
 



What gives the government the right to tell anyone how to live their life or what they should or shouldn't eat? Nothing. If they want to eat a grease burger or smoke a cigarette, that's their right, IMO. That doesn't mean I should have to pay for their choices, mind you.


I could write a full page on the essential contribution made by LAWYERS to America, but it is already common knowledge to the informed.

[edit on 05/05/2008 by donwhite]


Thanks for the condescending response. So anyone who doesn't worship at the altar of the trial lawyers association is an uninformed fool and an idiot, huh?

I realize that they make some useful contributions. So does the pharmaceutical industry. So does the oil industry. So does the government. So do a lot of other things that, on the whole, I do not trust at all.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by donwhite

Q. If you "know" eating a super-sized Big Mac with trans-fat fried French Fries every day will KILL you and or cause you to incur humongous medical bills 20-30 years out, should not someone DISALLOW you (or me) to commit suicide on the slow? AND at the expense of others?


No I don't think any one should be disallowed from eating what they want, or a multitude of other things. But I do think they should not have the right to complain at to the government that they deserve health care at the expense of the government. So what that means is if we get universal health care, then we will loose the ability to eat what we want, and probably some other things that are not healthy. I still think the best health care will be for only the richest. I would like to see that change, but as has been said in the above posts, there is to much profiteering going on, and it is way out of proportion. I would rather see that addressed much more then the universal health care.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 09:12 AM
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To me this is simple. We should have the same healthcare as Cheney I dont see how the people who work for the people can have better healthcare than the people they work for. The government doesnt have the right to tell us how to eat or smoke or bone or whatever that is a choice that an adult can and should be able to make.

I understand people dont want to pay for other peoples stuff but right now we already are....when you go to the doctor and pay that massive bill 40% of that bill is paying for the uninsured and illegal people who come over here for healthcare. So why not have it for everyone. In reality its not free anyways we still pay for it one way or another but the cost will be far less than the gouging we get now...I have Blue Cross and I pay $700 a month for health insurance and me and my wife are 26. We have 3 kids. I mean give me a break and we never really go to the doctor.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 09:26 AM
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reply to post by vor78
 




Thanks for the condescending response.


TO: vor78

MESSAGE: I am sorry I came across as condescending.

I worked for the courts and lawyers for 17 years. Anecdote: For decades the GM intermediate size body was used by the Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme, Pontiac Grand Prix, Buick Regal and Chevrolet Monte Carlo. Under the sheet metal, the cars were mechanically the same. “A” Body car by the millions.
en.wikipedia.org...

All of those very popular GM models used 2 lower control arms to locate the rear axle. The assembly also included upper movable arms splayed to further locate the axle. The rear coil springs (2) were mounted just above the lower control arms which ran backward from the car’s frame to the axle. Over the years due to lack of a drain hole in the arms (omitted in the interest of manufacturing economy) the control arms were subjected to rust. In all too many cases the rusted arm was weakened enough to cause instantaneous and catastrophic failure without warning to the driver.

Using the discovery process allowed in civil actions, the ATLA lawyers discovered that GM had known about this problem and its consequences for several years before the case I assisted on occurred.

The only ISSUE at the trial I attended was whether the plaintiff could introduce the discovered evidence showing the defendant knew about the defect but intentionally elected NOT to recall the 8 million effected vehicles. Cost analysts had assured GM it would be cheaper to DEFEND the suits than to make the recall.

When the judge ruled the plaintiffs could introduce the evidence for the jury to weigh, the defendants made a $7 million settlement offer which was accepted. Yes, the ATLA lawyers got 33% of the award - $2.1 million - but they had to pay taxes on their fee whereas the injured parties do not have to pay taxes on their awards.

Without the LAWYERS, the plaintiffs had NOTHING. With the lawyers the plaintiffs received over $4 million.

The Republican Party has endeavored to slow or halt the trial lawyers effectiveness for as long as I have lived. The big surprise is there are any product liability suits at all. Or any professional liability (malpractice) suits.

[edit on 05/05/2008 by donwhite]



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by donwhite
 


Not a problem. I probably provoked that response anyway and shouldn't have even mentioned it. Its not directly related to the original post.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 10:48 AM
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Might I point out that the reason for the 'skyrocketing' cost of health care is the OBSCENE profit surrendered to the insurance carriers, pharmaceutical companies and the so-called 'health care' providers?

The industry has been propagating a fairytale about their costs. They pretend that 'they' pay for the research, that 'they' are suffering from 'trivial' law suits, that it 'our own fault' for not being healthy. Yet 'they' are knee deep in government regulatory affairs, constantly capitalizing on policies they either helped to, or outright created themselves.

These priests of 'health care for profit' will DO ANYTHING including lie about public health and safety to promote and maintain the illusion that they aren't DIRECTLY controlling costs.

There is NO reason it has to cost as much as it does to provide health care, lacking the outright price gouging - we CAN afford to provide everyone in this country with quality care. In fact, from the perspective of creating and maintaining a system which keeps it out of reach of those in need, in deference to profit, these 'health care' industry talking heads and corporate moguls could be rightly designated as committing crimes against humanity.

The problem starts and ends with the corporatization of the institution of health care (thank you MBA's). Institutions are NOT MEANT TO BE RUN LIKE BUSINESSES - and what we are seeing is the result. Blame 'higher' education for creating the mindset that this is 'how it ought to be.'

And before some patsy chimes in about how much it costs to conduct medical research; I warn you, I know more about the abuses of this 'money laundering' racket called research than you probably want to know. Suffice to say, we [the people] pay for over 90% of all research by way of government taxation and exposure to risk. The rest is a shell game of money spread around between universities, 'foundations', and businesses.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


Maxmars
Thanks for the info!

Might you be able to post a link that has that information you mentioned on it?



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by RedGolem
reply to post by Maxmars
 


Maxmars
Thanks for the info!

Might you be able to post a link that has that information you mentioned on it?


I'm not trying to be be coy or anything, but since that rant took such a form it would be hard to determine exactly for which point you would like a link/source.

I am frequently arguing these points because of my work of the last 5 years or so (which was directly related to 'research' and grants financial reporting and management) much of which was 'medical' in nature.

I suspect that the profit gleaned by the industry on a 'per service' or 'per product' is probably not in question. But I would rather you specified rather than me blaze down a trail in which you're not interested.

Please be advised, that I cannot give you details of specific activities that could be construed as 'active' nor of course anything that could be construed as criminal for obvious reasons.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 11:57 AM
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USA is going of Rome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


sooner or later , it will become a third country , while Russia,China and India will be world powers again



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by BrezhnevX
USA is going of Rome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


sooner or later , it will become a third country , while Russia,China and India will be world powers again


Brezhnev ...I watch all these posts that you do and Im telling you the way you post is pathetic...If you came across a little more realistic and less hate and down with American Im sure more people would pay attention I have seen you make good points but your attitude really sucks.....Also you post has nothing to do with the topic its just your typical down with America crap. I have my issues with our government but frankly I still think we are the best damn nation out there we just have some cleaning up we need to do....

I mean you magazines cant even talk about Putin getting some hot chick without being shut down I mean give me a break.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by Maxmars

I suspect that the profit gleaned by the industry on a 'per service' or 'per product' is probably not in question. But I would rather you specified rather than me blaze down a trail in which you're not interested.

Please be advised, that I cannot give you details of specific activities that could be construed as 'active' nor of course anything that could be construed as criminal for obvious reasons.


If you were to have information that could be related to criminal nature I would not ask for it. I would suggest that it be forwarded to the authorities.
I was wondering about the information to the source of that the drug companies pay for a very small amount of the research that they claim to be paying for. I am aware there profiteering is way over the top.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by BrezhnevX
USA is going of Rome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


sooner or later , it will become a third country , while Russia,China and India will be world powers again


My first thought is Russia, China, and India are very much world powers now. You statement makes it sound like you are referring to them in a past tense.
You should also listen to mybigunit. What he is saying is correct. You are coming across as being hateful. Being hateful will not get you any where on this site. Make your point and show your evidence. If all you are looking for is to be hateful I am sure there are sites that specialize in that.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by RedGolem
 



(1) No I don't think any one should be disallowed from eating what they want, or a multitude of other things. But I do think they should not have the right to complain at to the government that they deserve health care at the expense of the government. So what that means is (2) if we get universal health care, then we will loose the ability to eat what we want, and probably some other things that are not healthy.


Well, the issue of what to eat or not to eat is not exactly the same as whether a person is entitled to health care due to birth only. At church Sunday a lady was soliciting money to take a bus back to her home in Mexico so she could obtain needed health care. Hmm?

1) It is becoming more and more obvious we cannot afford to treat the maladies - health issues - overweight brings with it. Already 25% of school age children are rated as OBESE. You’ve no doubt heard that once a fat cell is created it is neigh unto impossible to destroy it. Akin to second hand smoke, I see where one state has passed a law BANNING anyone including parents from smoking in a car with children in it. The bio equivalent to the physical seat belt laws. it will not be too long before the allowable Breathalyzer reading for drivers will be ZERO %. Just as it should be for lead in paint. Etc. Thank the MADD Mothers for that, not the state or federal governments.

2) To oh so many people, it is obvious we cannot afford the duplications of 3,000 heath insurance companies wiring a dozen or more policies each, offering 40,000 different coverages to be administered by 50 states and DC. And so on. A trial lawyer's full employment bonanza for sure, but a luxury we cannot any longer afford. Or ought to be smart enough to stop ASAP.

Whether SINGLE PAYER is a smart concept whose time has come or is a DIRTY word as the Health Care Providers Over Rich Lobby would have us believe, we must do something different soon or go broke.



I still think the (1) best health care will be for only the richest. I would like to see that change, but as has been said in the above posts, there is to much profiteering going on, and it is way out of proportion. (2) I would rather see that addressed much more then the universal health care.


1) I don’t suppose it has ever been another way. The R&Fs - Rich and Famous - always have it up on us P&P-er. Poor and Poorer. The R&Fs are better born or smarter of just plain luckier than the rest of us. But as a society, when dealing with fundamentals, we can start with the Declaration of Independence, “All men (and women) are crated equal . . . “ Let those who want and can afford superior health care fly to Switzerland or Dubai for it. But it ain't allowed here! Any single payer plan must be a single tier provider.

I can say only one more thing on this theme: Pending real CFR - Campaign Finance Reform - that is, no PRIVATE money will be allowed in PUBLIC elections. Until then and only than can we HALT the sale of America to the highest bidder.

2) I offer just the opposite. UNTIL we get universal access to health care, we cannot even hope to FIX the profiteers. During World War 2, to discourage individual greed - which we worship today - the top tax bracket rate was 91%! Corporations paid an additional 20% EXCESS profits tax based on pre-war earnings. Where there is both good government and the public will, things can be accomplished. We do not have that will today. It may well have to get worse before we are ready to make it better? (See my India anecdote above.)

[edit on 05/05/2008 by donwhite]



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