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Sometimes Drama Bombs really are True Stories....

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posted on May, 12 2008 @ 07:22 PM
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When members drop a "drama bomb", quite often they are accused of being overly melodramatic or manipulative. Making dramatic, suspenseful claims in order to attempt to further various agendas.

However, in some cases these members, while perhaps somewhat fearful for their personal safety, really are just trying to fight for what they believe is True, Good, and Just.

For example, what people like Michael Salla and Alfred Webre tell us about "Galactic CoIntelPro" is true. There is, and always has been, a fairly significant amount of counter-intelligence activity surrounding the [alleged] ET Contactees. Sometimes people get creepy dudes lurking around uttering veiled threats and whatnot.

When people make such reports, we should not be quick to condemn them for dropping "drama bombs", but at least consider that they may be making a sort of battle-cry for assistance - not unlike Boromir blowing the Horn of Gondor in that one LOTR scene.




posted on May, 13 2008 @ 07:45 AM
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reply to post by MrdDstrbr
 


The ongoing problem with the extraordinary subject matter we deal with on ATS, is that by its nature it will attract people who either have have a deep seated need to belong, or who have convinced themselves, via ingrained psychological or societal problems, that they have important knowledge to share. Of course, there are those who join these boards just to rattle our cages. Teenage hormones have a lot to answer for.

However, I agree with you totally that there are many who have approached us with genuine stories. I applaud them and at the same time feel sorry for them, I truly do, because the other type has tempered our objectivity to the point that it is almost impenetrable.



When members drop a "drama bomb", quite often they are accused of being overly melodramatic or manipulative. Making dramatic, suspenseful claims in order to attempt to further various agendas.


Never a truer or more concise appraisal of the situation. (By the way; love "drama bomb". I've met a few folks who have entire payloads at their disposal :lol



However, in some cases these members, while perhaps somewhat fearful for their personal safety, really are just trying to fight for what they believe is True, Good, and Just.


And this, for me, is the clincher.

What we have to remember is that not everyone can express themselves in a manner that is comfortable, or acceptable, to those who read their posts.
It's a stone cold fact that we don't all have the same intellect or level of education that allows us to cope with what must be alarming and perplexing experiences, or be able to relate those experiences in a readable manner.

Often, this manifests as emotional frustration, and can be spotted as such quite easily. But equally frequently, this irritation rapidly becomes written disappointment and aggravation directed at those who were supposed to help. As soon as this happens it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy for any poster who instantly labelled the OP as a fraud. That is a very hollow, very cheap victory.

How annoying must it be to want desperately to impart a personal account to ATS, only for it to be shredded because of a writing style? That's intensely unfair, in my opinion.

But we cannot be blamed entirely for this encircling pack mentallity. Our behaviour, unfortunatley, has been conditioned by the continuing bombardment of fraudsters, shysters and obsessives. And it's this segment who have managed to insiduously condition us to expect lies and falsity.

And this leads me to another matter that has to be considered.

I am guilty of goading most of those who espouse wild and unconvincing theories or experiences, the "I am an alien" "angel" "higher-light being" etc.

This may seem hypocritical, considering my previous statements, but I do it under the guidance of a logical rationale; I cannot reason why any advanced intelligence etc. would choose to exploit an underdeveloped, ineffective medium, and utilise it to channel its "life changing" messages.

What would be the point of doing this, as all it achieves is to dilute the message's coherence and lessen its impact.

Those who profess enlightenment with the use of poorly executed, effusive, vociferous, self-serving language, yet who still post with an inability to convey any well researched substance or meaningful insight, are entirely indicative of an irrational need to fit in, or not to miss out.

This sort attempt at fooling us has an almost palpable desperation.

It can be argued that it also comes from a lack of education, but the point has to be made that a lack of schooling sometimes does nothing to lessen certain people's unrestrained need to deceive and beguile.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by Beamish
 


Nice debunk/discredit job there Beamish


- "deep seated need to belong"
- "ingrained psychological or societal problems"
- "teenage hormones"
- "emotional frustration"
- "irrational need to fit in"
- "palpable desperation"

Great attempt at character assassination.................

All I can say is that I've been around on ATS for a good two or three years now, and my hope is that there are at least SOME people on here who know me well enough by now to know that I am NONE of those things.


Coming forward with these kind of experiences is never easy, especially without proof.

I can personally vouch for the whole "Galactic Cointelpro" thing, as pertains to Gilliland and Greer. That's all I want people to know.

Some will believe me, I hope, and probably most will not - but please, just do me a favor and spare me the "deep seated need to belong", "palpable desperation" crap


Investigate the Mount Adams Sanctuary, ATS. Your best chance of getting evidence of Contact is there.

Trust me.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 05:12 AM
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reply to post by MrdDstrbr
 


I'm afraid you have completely misunderstood who I was aiming at, MrdDstrbr.

My apologies if I did not make it clear enough who I was targeting, but let me assure you that the comments you outlined, and indeed the whole piece, were not aimed at you.

In fact, you epitomise the polar opposite of who I was attempting to describe. You come across as a rational, concerened person who is deeply dedicated to researching and standing by what you believe. I will indeed search for "Galactic Cointelpro" etc, purely because of the articulate, concise way you have put it forward.

I was describing people who dwell on the extremes of the subjects we hold dear. That is obviously not a place you inhabit.

If anything, your reply to my post bears out my theory. It is a classic case of someone who truly has something important to divulge being manipulated into becoming defensive simply because you were conditioned to expect an attack.

I don't blame you, but will ask you to read my post again in the light of what I've just explained.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 05:25 AM
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Well well, this is an interesting topic - one i didn't think i would be seeing for a good few months yet.

Now, the point has been made that sometimes people do get caught up in their experience, and yes it is acknowledged that often this can be used against them by those seeking to discredit them or otherwise profit from their emotional conduct - and while it is important to provide people with the room nessecary to breath on this experiences, it is also important to remind them to maintain a level of impersonality, if only for the sake of their sanity.

Too often have i seen this happen, whereby individuals have experienced issues which to others would seem horrifying when the individual in question is infact approaching the subject with the cold precision of a surgical blade, and yet because of other members inability to approach the discussion through the same practicality the discussion is blown apart amid a storm of emotional commentary.

I myself am guilty of this.

Beamish, you said before you felt sorry for such individuals - i tend to disagree, in some cases i actually admire their ability to be so secure they can express themselves in that way.

Luckily, there is a thread on ATS which addresses this thing, this D-Ego, and it can be found via a study of the FAQ section.




posted on May, 14 2008 @ 07:00 AM
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reply to post by Anti-Tyrant
 



Now, the point has been made that sometimes people do get caught up in their experience...


I'm not so sure it's a case of worrying about people "getting caught up in their experiences".

As far as I'm concerned, those who have had experiences and then go on to be swept along by the sentiments and passion aroused can be designated genuine.

If we can read a certain breathless excitement for any given topic, or a sincere need to know between the lines of their posts, then that is to be not only encouraged, but nurtured, too. We can never have too may folks who are animated and enthusiastic, as long as it is focused. They emit a driving force in the quest for truth.


...it is acknowledged that often this can be used against them by those seeking to discredit them or otherwise profit from their emotional conduct


And this is exactly where MrdDstrbr thought I stood in my response to his post.

As I've explained in my reply, the conditioning we all suffer from, even the "discrediters" and "profiteers", has been forcibly imparted on us by certain posters promoting spurious theories, beliefs and organisations. Surely you cannot disagree that ATS, and the Aliens &UFOs forum especially, has been plagued by "entities" and "aliens" and near fanatical followers of misleading belief-systems.

Now, the point has to be made here that this type of divisive post may well be intentional, or a product of psychological or emotional problems on the part of the poster.

Either way, they have produced a ground swell of doubt that has permeated and tainted a lot of members abilities to discern reality from falsity. Hence, we get a plethora of replies to original posts that are simply and instantly dismissive without paying any heed to the need for reason and consideration of any and all claims.


...and while it is important to provide people with the room nessecary to breath on this experiences, it is also important to remind them to maintain a level of impersonality, if only for the sake of their sanity.


And I couldn't agree more. Giving support and a degree of understanding cultivates a comfortable environment in which experiencers can relate their stories without criticism.

But this is my point; we can only do this if we're dealing with a heartfelt, questioning, enquiring post, not the haughty, conceited, self-aggrandizing posts of the hoaxer full of their own, hollow self-importance. Nor the poster who decides that after reading a few online pages of sci-fi elevated to fact, they have the right to tell the world about it, and act as if they are on a "divine" mission to do so.

I'm reminded of a recent member (now banned) who joined and immediately started to promote a specific, psuedo-religious standpoint. His posts were full of "love" and "understanding", but was met with question upon question he simply was not prepared for.
His tone changed through the course of the thread from benevolence to anger, until eventually he started another thread, full of expletives and accusations.

For this he was banned. It also went to prove that he was posting under a false intention; he wasn't here to enlighten us, he was here to boost his own ego.

Can we be blamed for forcing him into stepping over the edge? In my opinion, no. All that happened was that he was found out, via his unplanned approach, his deliberate lack of knowledge and a misdirected need to belong, no matter the method of achieving it.


Beamish, you said before you felt sorry for such individuals - i tend to disagree, in some cases i actually admire their ability to be so secure they can express themselves in that way.


I hope I've clarified this sympathy; I still feel sorry for the genuine poster who is belittled and rejected, not the poster who is bombarded with logic and reason and revealed to be a hoaxer.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 07:11 AM
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Originally posted by Beamish

I hope I've clarified this sympathy; I still feel sorry for the genuine poster who is belittled and rejected, not the poster who is bombarded with logic and reason and revealed to be a hoaxer.


Where you feel sympathy, i feel admiration - i believe it's in our best interests to support genuine posters even if their theories are unfounded.

This can be easily done if we merely evaluate the way that we treat posters whom possess theoretical value but actually have little solid evidence to back up their theories.

Often i find it amusing to find an original post filled with evidence and very little theory, almost as if the OP is attempting to find out how people will react to the information provided, as opposed to attempting to stir debate.

There is a sweet spot for those who know of it, and sadly it's something i've yet to locate.

I'm learning, though.



There is one thing that brings me to the point of enragement however, and that's when i see genuine posters being torn apart by "discrediters" and "Profiteers" for no reason other than the original post's content being contradictory to what is commonly accepted.

If a genuine poster posts something that is not scientifically or reasonably valid, all that is needed is for the facts to be brought to their attention.

Ignorance of those facts, regardless of the source, is not something that should be ignored.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by Anti-Tyrant
 



Where you feel sympathy, i feel admiration - i believe it's in our best interests to support genuine posters even if their theories are unfounded.


This is a sentiment that I believe I've already stated I agree with wholeheartedly.

And, yes, I'll join you in your admiration; it is admirable to stand up and voice an opinion, or a hypothesis, about a subject that fascinates but who's complexities escape the poster. That is in essence what we are all doing here; trying to make sense of subjects that are, by their nature, as yet intangible and indefinable.

Theorising is virtually how every invention, inovation or philosophy came into being; the simple method of applying the human mind to a problem, whether it be a material, or a spiritual one.


There is one thing that brings me to the point of enragement however, and that's when i see genuine posters being torn apart by "discrediters" and "Profiteers" for no reason other than the original post's content being contradictory to what is commonly accepted.


Unfortunatley, and in my opinion, those who are hell-bent on maintaining their safe and comfortable existence, even to the extent of denying anyone the right to assimilate valuable and possibly enlightening knowledge, are doing as much harm as those who espouse specious information and bogus wisdom.

They can be rightly grouped in with hoaxers and fraudsters.


If a genuine poster posts something that is not scientifically or reasonably valid, all that is needed is for the facts to be brought to their attention.


Yes, but in some cases, be prepared for the fall out!

I think there is a problem with this approach that has to be pointed out, however, when dealing with theoretical, philosophical and religious subject matter; facts aren't always available to answer, or even counter, these posts. Then we enter the wonderful mine-field of personal attitude and belief.



Ignorance of those facts, regardless of the source, is not something that should be ignored.


A question; surely any thing that is promoted as "fact" is completely reliant on the veracity of the source it is drawn from?

[edit on 14-5-2008 by Beamish]



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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Good points guys, and thanks for contributing to the discussion.

I don't think there's that much Cointel activity to discredit Greer these days, as he does a bang-up job of that himself, with all the bad business decisions and PR moves he makes, claiming to levitate cars, the ATS Mix diss etc etc....

But Gilliland is a whole other matter. He has a lot going for him these days - loads of independent witnesses, loads of video footage, big names like Salla and Webre and Joel Garbin supporting him - plus he doesn't charge for people to go there, so he can't be accused of having ulterior financial motives and written off that way.

Again, I have had the distinct impression at times that there are certain counter-intelligence interests out there who really don't want to see the ATS staff working closely with Gilliland or Greer, although I can't prove anything.

Believe me, or not. Do what you will with the information. But these days I am feeling such a strong connection with Mount Adams, James, and ATS, that I had to drop my little "drama bomb" and put this out there.



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