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Earthquake of a magnitude 7.8 reported in China *UPDATE* 'to top 50,000' killed

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posted on May, 13 2008 @ 07:04 PM
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27jd, Witness, thank you again for your kind supports, despite that we had fiere arguments about certain basic topics, but you can see through communication we have learned from each other a lot and mutual respect is established. These are the very reasons why I kept on being here.

Other ATS members & mods, thanks for the applauses and the support too, these are most welcome and I will convey these strengths to the rest of China....

***********************

Interesting U2U received from Asala, which I would want to response about one line of "and giving facts through the whole thread" in public. This means a lot to me that people in ATS starts to realize and acknowledge that Chinese members of ATS are not simply here to spread propaganda and disinformation. Hopefully more will be more open-minded and put the paranoiia aside.

What I do want achieve in ATS since I became very active posting in ATS is to let a certain part of the outside world know that within China information flow is unlike many have let to believe and how ordinary Chinese people in general and my personal viewpoints towards certain topics are. Too often I noticed that there are too much ignorance in ATS, people who are denying to even listen to me or other Chinese viewpoints and opinions. I lost count how often I am accused of being a Chinese agent, even in this thread I was accused again.

I can bring facts to the board, not because I am privileged, but because facts are floating around the internet everywhere and anywhere. You have to open your mind and heart to look it up and see it. It is a pity the Chinese language proficiency outside China is so much less than for English. I will repeat myself again from other discussions, if you happen to join some Chinese websites and forums you will see the floating of information incredibly fast and open. Chinese Netizens inside and outside mainland China are discussing about any and whatever topics that you and me also see in similar forums and chatrooms, sometimes even fiercer and more emotional.

For this horrible terrifying disaster ordinary Chinese people like me are also starting to blame the local governments for being corrupt and ask out loud why there was no warning beforehand. Many are even theorizing that the government did not issue warnings because of the Olympics. I believe I already tackled and gave my PERSONAL opinion about the warning issue, so no need to repeat it in this post. What I want to say is that China is still an under-developed emerging country, which holds a population of over 1.4 billion people by now, and that either you believe it or not, the majority do have a general feelings we are being directed to a better future with much more hope and more openness and prosperity. And constructive criticism is being given by more and more people from inside the imperfect China full of a lot of different pressing issues, such as corruption and pollution.

Again, please be more open minded and less ignorant, and try to put aside your paranoiia when you encounter a Chinese arguing with you. Maybe when you start to listen, then maybe you will also start to understand why this weirdo is saying these kinds of weird ideas...... Cultures are brought together and differences understood by listening first......

[edit on 13/5/08 by IchiNiSan]




posted on May, 13 2008 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by IchiNiSan
For this horrible terrifying disaster ordinary Chinese people like me are also starting to blame the local governments for being corrupt and ask out loud why there was no warning beforehand.


I think earthquakes are probably one of the most difficult natural disasters to predict. There are some seismic indicators, but those do not always accurately warn of a coming earthquake and even countries that spend more time trying to predict such things don't always get it right so I wouldn't rely heavily on your government, although this quake was predicted 5 years ago. Nature however, gives plenty of warnings. I understand there were hundreds of thousands of toads that suddenly appeared in that general area, it's believed they can sense minor tremors before the quake hits, and they were likely looking for safer ground to burrow in. Just as animals were seen heading for higher ground before the big tsunami in SE Asia. The earth warns us, we just ignore it sometimes.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by IchiNiSan
 


The support is easy..the heart ache..well is pretty hard. We are all world citizens sharing the one and only planet we know of, feeling pain and joy, life then death. Our differences matter not at the moment...only the struggle that your country undertakes now.

What ever weapons of debate that were used by you and I were set aside long ago as I learned to respect our differences and at the same time recognized our similarities.

Stay safe over there.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 08:16 PM
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Any suggestions where a donation will do the most good. It does not matter to me whether the organization is US, Chinese or International. Just want my money to help the victims of the tragedy and not be used for "administrative" expenses.

My heart and prayers to all that are suffering. A special prayer for the children.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 08:34 PM
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4000 paratroopers have been dropped in trapped areas now the weather is becoming less hostile.

landtroops are walking kilometres and have opened routes to the trapped areas.

Still 60,000 people without news. 100,000 trapped, because the only bridges to their mountainous areas were destroyed. Airborne support to drop food, medicine and tents are being arranged.

Confirmed deathtoll 12012 people and thousands of orphans
These orphans Wen Jiaobao already pledged the central government will for sure take care of them no matter what.

Still thousands of people missing and another thousands trapped under debris and so on, rescue workers are digging people out rock by rock.

Not sure about search dogs, have not seen footages of those on TV or read it somewhere. Left a post somewhere else to ask around.

It seems like it is because of the Earthquake that is causing the rainfalls.


27jd, yes we way too often ignore signs of nature, so that's why scientists really should start to become more and more open-minded and see how they can make use of animals to create early warning systems for whatever kinds of natural disasters. Anyone know if there are research centers dedicated to this?

leo Strauss, the Red Cross seems one of the most often mentioned NGO which is actively supporting the governmental efforts. Maybe you can make some inquiries of the Red Cross in your country. I know that in mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau & Taiwan all charity organizations and a lot of activities are being organized.

Needless to say, during a press conference the Chinese government informed the public that the two relief shipments to Myanmar were sent, and if requested by the regime there they will try to prepare more if possible. So also don't forget the victims in Myanmar. Difference is that for the victims there it might be that they will never see those international donations....



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by Leo Strauss
 


Red Cross would be the safest place for your donations. There are however many groups that you could contact in order to contribute. This link has a list of groups and organizations in N.C that are mobilizing for relief. Most cities and states would have listings within news papers and almost all universities I know of are usually pretty quick about collecting donations.

www.nbc17.com...



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 09:01 PM
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Sharing an interesting article regarding the buildings. It cleared up a lot of question marks in my mind:

An expert answering questions about the intensity and building codes...

CHINA EARTHQUAKE: Anatomy of Destruction


NEWSWEEK's Katie Paul spoke to Weimin Dong of Risk Management Solutions, who has served on technical committees at the California-based Earthquake Engineering Research Institute and has studied earthquake-related insurance issues in China.



And in this region most buildings are only built for an intensity of 7?
That's the best. China's earthquake design code was not enforced until 1978, following the Tangshan earthquake. Before 1954 there was no design code. From 1964 to 1978 there was a very rudimentary design code. After 1978, that was a wakeup call. But in the rural areas a lot of the buildings are old and were built before that, and the requirement for intensity 7 is only for new building. Many of the buildings in the area were not designed for earthquakes at all.

How rural is the area? Could you describe the kinds of buildings one would find there?
The city Chengdu, the capital of Sichuan province, is about 95 kilometers [60 miles] from the epicenter. This area has a lot of masonry building, brick building, adobe building. Some maybe have a wood frame building with some clay surrounding it. The buildings aren't really engineered. They do have some reinforced concrete buildings that I saw in several pictures, but those were still built for an intensity of 7 and would not be strong enough to resist an intensity of 9 or 10. [Based on that] we shouldn't be surprised that 80 percent of the buildings collapsed.



Is there still a chance that there could be a miracle rescue of those 900 kids under the school?
I've seen a picture of the two kids that escaped from the school. What they said is that they just ran faster [than their classmates]. Maybe in the short term [they could be rescued], but if it takes too long, they could die. It didn't seem like the schools were designed and built to satisfy the seismic code. I just looked at the ruins in the pictures, and it doesn't seem like the building design considered the impact of earthquakes at all.

Note: still 800 children left under the debris, rescue workers are still trying to save as many as possible.


sharing a few pictures:


Colege student waiting to be saved. Some people confirmed he was saved!


This is why rescuers could not reach the epicenters


A quite clear map to show you how moutainous China is.



[edit on 13/5/08 by IchiNiSan]

[edit on 13/5/08 by IchiNiSan]



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by IchiNiSan
 


I found some news footage of the school rescues. www.youtube.com...

Well I am sure the Chinese people will demand greater care in the future construction of buildings and bridges, especially those buildings that hold the most precious of us all..our children. In this country we learned some hard lessons and I live in a city where most construction is at least 75 years old. I live in an even older building. It's historic and beautiful but terribly dangerous in the event of a high magnitude earthquake.

[edit on 13-5-2008 by Witness2008]



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by IchiNiSan

For this horrible terrifying disaster ordinary Chinese people like me are also starting to blame the local governments for being corrupt and ask out loud why there was no warning beforehand.


there was no warning beforehand because the science of earthquake prediction is incredibly inexact. Even with the non-scientific methods, such as earthquake clouds and animal behavior, they provide no indication of how intense a quake will be - and the intensity is the issue in this case. If this had been a 7.0M, I have no doubt that the damage would have been limited to a few unfortunate deaths at the epicenter and perhaps a hundred injured. They also are not at all accurate - I've seen earthquake clouds myself, overhead - and the epicenter of the quake that occurred was over 200km away.

At this point,we can only rely on governments for preparation and response. The Chinese government have thus far done an incredible job of responding to the crisis, at least from what I've seen.

As far as preparation, I don't know what local building codes are like, but I'm sure the laws will be tightened following this quake. One thing I'm sure will be investigated is the possibility of construction companies using inferior materials/methods to save money. this came up here recently - numerous condominiums, hotels and at least one hospital were not built to proper codes. Developers had left out support columns and cross-bracing to make extra money, and a few local officials were caught having taken bribes to deal with it. If that turns out to be the case in China as well, one can only hope that they will be treated as mass-murderers.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by vox2442
 


Indeed, after hearing more from guys like you I came to the conclusion that the government, central or local, and no matter how corrupt, was not really to blame for not warning anyone.

Seems like there is a building code in place after the Tangshan Earthquake in 76. But the question is how strictly followed it was. We will see later and now only focus on rescuing efforts, which is most urgent for the first 96 hours...



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 10:22 PM
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Has anyone determined if this event was possibly initiated by HAARP to disrupt the olympics?



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 10:59 PM
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Having read this whole thread up to this point, and seeing all the pictures; there's something that really stands out above the devastation. All the pictures show cooperation, supplies and on site medical care. I think that's brilliant. Here in the U.S.A., when there is a disaster, people work together to rescue people and rush them off to hospital. I've never seen a U.S. photo of an I.V. drip hooked up to someone trapped.
Little things like that go a long way toward saving lives. I'm deeply impressed



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 11:55 PM
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I know a lot of you may not be religious.

There is a reference in the bible Warning about the end of times

And it describes frequent natural diasters, Earthquakes, Etc

The bible and koran, both books describe the same thing and warnings about the end of times

Also prophets have predicted this too

Either this is a sign of the end of time = Or this is just a coincidence/natural

For me i would stick with the bible/koran/end of times story

I am not mentally sick of out of my mind, It's interesting to read

Yes folks, The bible and koran speak of the same subject

Just use a search engine and you will see

There are more and more natural disasters \


Anyway, With the world population over 6 BILLION PEOPLE!

And we are in the golden age.

Any more future development and we would be SCREWED

What about resources? food? money

With a large population...It's impossible

You know the saying "TOO MUCH OF ANYTHING IS BAD" well it implies to the world population

And lord, Look at how many evil people exist!


Anyway, When judgement day rolls around the corner, And all the scientists and unbelievers/sinners weep and get the see the truth

All i can say is, i tried to keep a clean record on my life - When i am judged, i hope i make it to paradise



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by Busymind
 


I work for EMS in Texas and it is sad to say ego is a big thing on the side of the World. People are fighting over who is in charge and all of that. Plus, people in charge don't want civilians helping out in anyway. Look at New Orleans, over 100 firetrucks were waiting to get into New Orleans but FEMA wouldn't let them in. WHY?



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by Busymind
Having read this whole thread up to this point, and seeing all the pictures; there's something that really stands out above the devastation. All the pictures show cooperation, supplies and on site medical care. I think that's brilliant. Here in the U.S.A., when there is a disaster, people work together to rescue people and rush them off to hospital. I've never seen a U.S. photo of an I.V. drip hooked up to someone trapped.
Little things like that go a long way toward saving lives. I'm deeply impressed


First, my thoughts and prayers go out to those in China

I also noticed this and was impressed. My heart goes out to all of the medical, fire, rescue ect.. helping with this. I can't even imagine working in conditions like that where there is no hospital to take anyone to (at least for such a long period of time).

I have been very impressed with how everyone seems to be helping each other and the level of care that the injured are receiving.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 12:20 AM
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Well, this is no longer on CNN.com. I guess 12,000 dead is only worthy of 48 hours of coverage. We need to focus on Hillary and her pointless win in WVA.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 12:41 AM
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Karlhungis, that's the U.S. edition of CNN, so figure... The Asian edition still has the Earthquake at the homepage... still ... ah no energy to bash on them....



See how the people has to stay in the open.









These are the reasons why it is so difficult to reach the victims intrapped areas



Here is a webpage with a sequence of picture, seeing how buried people are saved! (Warning: at least a few pictures is a little bit graphic, heavily wounded ones...)
news.qq.com...




[edit on 14/5/08 by IchiNiSan]

[edit on 14/5/08 by IchiNiSan]



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Good job, vitchillo, i was waiting for somebody to say it was a conspiracy involving a machine that can create earthquakes, and it only took us 16 posts to do it. keep up the good work guys.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 04:09 AM
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reply to post by IchiNiSan
 


ultimately the responsibility lies with the government, seeing as they have full control over the country and did nothing in the way of prevention (safe guarding building). Even after the previous earthquakes and warning 5 years prior to the incident.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 04:20 AM
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reply to post by purplemonkey
 


(refer you to the Newsweek article)

resources are always scarce, no matter in which country you are, in under-developed countries even more

and it has more to do with corrupted local officials in my opinion who might have used the money dedicated for retrofitting the old buildings to enrich themselves, and people who were not long-term oriented in sensing what risks are ahead.

you mentioned that Wen JiaBao went to there for a PR stunt? I say he went to there to make sure no any delay in rescuing the people and all neccesary resources will be dispatched for the area and crisis, because I believe deep down in the central leaders they know the Sichuan governor is incapable (note last snow storm crisis). So I would not be surprised if he and many others are going to be replaced. one thing I am hoping for is that there will be a re-forming of the local governmental layers.



[edit on 14/5/08 by IchiNiSan]



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