Obama Still Loyal To His Church

youtube.com...

I like this one.

Realshanti = first person I noticed whom hit the nail on the head. I just don't understand the push to associate the only brown person that has a shot at the white hose with racism against whites-didn’t you know the man’s half white and there are white folks who go to that same church. And he's a freaking politician, whom as far as I’m concerned is all down for the NWO. But none the less it’s not right for people to be trying to link this guy with fictional “Black separatist” movement, to take a quote from fox news. Just look into the words of some of the churches who support the republicans, Rev. Heyge, Rev. Parsley? They are all about killing Muslims & taking down islam- which is ok since we are at war with a Muslim country?
Does it really all go back to social issues and ones perceived place in society-in this case its not a black person's place to speak out and point out how the country has messed up, unless they want to take the risk of being labeled a “Black separatist” a racist, someone who hates whites and lives in the past who can’t get over slavery. I guess in the eyes of an ignorant few, who will only see this issue through one pair of tainted eyes.
I don’t get it its obviously a media blitz, and no one will recognize it- “liberals” don’t even recognize it or Hillary wouldn’t even be an issue.
I just think its all about the race thing, there is such a thing as white fear, and this whole issue has brought it forefront. You guys are down right ignoring 2/3rds of this entire thing and focusing in this blown out of proportion nonsense.
And other pastors alluded to the “sins” of the US bringing problems down on us. Katrina and 9/11.
But now all a sudden this brown guy is a racist, right and if he was a white member of the same church what then? I thought ATS would be about a different point of view but I guess it takes all to uncover the truth...

reply to post by wutone


Hey wutone, a single black racist (Rev Wright?) has as much political influence on public policy as a single drop of rain on your vegetable garden. To hold Obama responsible for the state of mind of his ex pastor is ridiculous. And Democrats as racist? Heck! They were the original racists in this country. Abraham Lincoln was a Republican! But public policy affects peoples lives and those who are in power must be held accountable. Obama says he wants to end this status quo. He wants change, not a continuation of this same old program. A definition of insanity is doing the same old things over and over and expecting different results! Give change a chance. After all he is not running for Absolute Dictator!

Originally posted by Inceptor
If you agree with Pastor Wright, then you're agreeing with a racist. His comments are offensive to white people, and if you think that this isn't going to have an effect on the general election come November, you're living in a dream world.

Go to the church in question's website and look at their ten-point mission statement. Substitute white for black, and Europe for Africa then you come back here and tell me you don't think it's racist.

[edit on 13-5-2008 by Inceptor]

There is a difference, and let me tell you what that is.

If it was the doctrine of a 'White' church that said 'white' instead of black, it would be coming from feelings of superiority over blacks.

Since it says 'blacks' however, it's from a feeling of being victimized and rising up against their 'oppressors'.

Not the same thing, so it'd be foolish to assume they are.

Originally posted by Inceptor
If you agree with Pastor Wright, then you're agreeing with a racist. His comments are offensive to white people, and if you think that this isn't going to have an effect on the general election come November, you're living in a dream world.

Go to the church in question's website and look at their ten-point mission statement. Substitute white for black, and Europe for Africa then you come back here and tell me you don't think it's racist.

[edit on 13-5-2008 by Inceptor]

Can't substitute "white for black" because it wasn't the black Europeans who came to these shores, committed genocide on the native population, enslaved millions of africans, murdered millions more in the process and never said "kiss my ass sorry bout that...oops..." racism is not an equal opportunity , tit for tat proposition.....racism = one ethnic group having power over another ....if you want to know who has power over who in this country simply look at the prison population....its self evident....who was it who was lynched and who did the lynching with impunity?
who were the victims of the Tuskeegee medical experiments? They weren.t white....
who fought for this country in every damn war despite the fact that they were treated like complete crap and second class citizens for their trouble....

I have read the ten point mission statement of Obama's church...I found it refeshing but then I'm not afraid to face the hard facts of life in these united states....

ever been harassed by the fed for speaking out? - I have
ever been jailed for speaking out? - I have
ever spent time in chains with hardened criminals asking you "what the fk did you do to get chained up like that?" - I have
ever had a cop beat the # out of you at a demo? - I have

Have you ever stood up for the rights you take for granted? I have

Please do your homework and do something useful before you spew about how racist black people are - cause you are talking out your....well you get my drift...
Ta
realshanti


P.s. just re-read this and god it sounds self-righteous dunnit? LOL...nothing personal, seriously


[edit on 14-5-2008 by realshanti]

Originally posted by realshanti
Please do your homework and do something useful before you spew about how racist black people are -

:shk: Back atchya.

EVERYONE on this planet is capable of bigotry, prejudice and racism. Black people are no exception to that. Wright and his minions preach the gospel of misery and perpetual victimhood. Michelle Obama's 'speeches' are perfect examples of a black racist with mental health issues of imagined perpetual victimhood.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by realshanti
Please do your homework and do something useful before you spew about how racist black people are -

:shk: Back atchya.

EVERYONE on this planet is capable of bigotry, prejudice and racism. Black people are no exception to that. Wright and his minions preach the gospel of misery and perpetual victimhood. Michelle Obama's 'speeches' are perfect examples of a black racist with mental health issues of imagined perpetual victimhood.

Well I clearly HAVE done MY homework - as in backing up my arguments with some facts - your answer is just slander against persons ( the Obamas) you disagree with - nice....well done...

I'll say it again because its evident you didn't understand the definition of racism:

RACISM: one ethnic/racial group exersizing POWER, often institutionalized, over another ethnic/racial group....

Do Blacks as group in this country exercise power over your daily life?....what??? NO??!!! ..............didn't think so....

Can you trace your blood line through birth records to the country of origin (not simply the continent)??....you can???!!!!! excellent

If you're of African heritage, can you tell me what language your great grandparents spoke or what region they are from, what nationality? Or do you have more pertinent information like the name of their owners...

What percentage of your community is in jail or likely to experience prison?
Is it in the neighborhood of 40%??.....

If I have Black or Brown skin and I publically point out the racism and historical injustice of my people's experience , by your definition I'm just a mean ol bigot.... thats truly rich....

To sum up: Okies I've been posting for a short while now .....I am a little surprised at how willing people are to believe the swill fed them around the elections, i.e.that the question of racism is an equal opportunity hatred.. it is NOT....racism is about POWER and to say that all people are equally capable of racism is gobbledygook from the "establishment handbook of spin... racism always involves the power of one racial group OVER another...racism cannot be separated from that power relationship...
I rest my case.
Ta
realshanti












[edit on 15-5-2008 by realshanti]

Just to be clear on this thread, here is the ACTUAL definition..

Or should I say, DEFINITIONS.. Plural...

Racism:

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Dictionary.com

Now we can all be on the same playing field in this discussion...

Semper

reply to post by semperfortis


So, are you in fact accusing Obama of being a racist then?

Can you provide any sort of statements made by Obama?

What do you believe his agenda is (as far as accomplishing things in the White House as a racist)?

reply to post by Sublime620


Easy now...

Let's not manufacture things that are not there shall we?

That happens far too often and really makes for a poor conversation.

If you look closely, I simply provided a correct definition where one was needed. If you intend on making assumption from that, well that is your prerogative, however understand that YOU are making this issue, I have not.

Semper

reply to post by semperfortis


Just honest questions. What, sir, are you trying to convey with this thread then?

reply to post by Sublime620

Just honest questions. What, sir, are you trying to convey with this thread then?

That one is an easy question...

Obama Still Loyal

Read the first post.

There is often a misunderstanding in the intent or perhaps a better word should be, the goal of a thread. The creation of a thread should in no way indicate the authors agreement with what is posted. Especially when it is clear in the authors own words that there are questions the author is looking to have answered.

Perhaps there is no intent to "convey" anything, perhaps only a conversation is being sought.

I have questions, and your attempt at labeling all those with questions about Obama as racist, does not shine a favorable light on you, or any Obama supported attempting to quiet those like me. Especially when you make inferences and assumptions as in your previous post.

This is the political season, and this is a political forum. Some amount of "back and forth" agitation is to be expected, but if we stick to what the poster has said, and not what we either, "want him to have said" or "assumed" he said, the conversations will be far more productive and civil.

Semper

reply to post by semperfortis


Or you can just label me a "liberal" and move on as you do to so many others. Do not patronize me about partisan politics.

I never put a word in your mouth. It was all in question form to try and understand what your objective is. You will note there is much talk of Obama and his church being racist. There is, in fact, an entire thread devoted to how his followers are racist.

So, please, reread my posts. I never said you called him a racist, I was just asking questions around what I thought you were trying to convey ( in fact, the first question was "are you saying he's racist?"). No need to be so defensive. You clarified your point, and that should be enough. No need to martyr yourself.

-sub1ime

[edit on 15-5-2008 by Sublime620]

Originally posted by realshanti
its evident you didn't understand the definition of racism,

No, apparently YOU don't.
Thank you Semper for posting the full and proper definition of racism.

Can you trace your blood line through ... what language your great grandparents spoke

Who cares? Off topic.

What percentage of your community is in jail or likely to experience prison?

Whatever percentage breaks the law - and that's off topic as well.

by your definition I'm just a mean ol bigot....

If you blame white people who are alive today for slavery .. if you fail to realize that ALL people on the planet have slavery in their past .. if you sit in a pew for 20 years listening to anti-white garbage that blames whitey for everything wrong on the planet and then claim that you never heard any of it ... then yes you'd be a bigot.

to say that all people are equally capable of racism is gobbledygook

To say otherwise is ethno-babble.
EVERYONE can be racist if they are put in the proper position to exercise it.

BTW - this is an ELECTION which involves the power of the White House and the power of the vote as well as the power of the voting block. Did you catch that? POWER.



[edit on 5/15/2008 by FlyersFan]

reply to post by FlyersFan


I don't think white people deserve blame for slavery (or their gross mistreatment of other races until recent years), but the least we can do is understand that there is a healing process.

Originally posted by Sublime620
the least we can do is understand that there is a healing process.

Healing? Yes.
But Black Liberation Theology isn't a 'healing' process.
It's just lies and blame and it's really holding people back.
It's not healthy.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by realshanti
its evident you didn't understand the definition of racism,

No, apparently YOU don't.
Thank you Semper for posting the full and proper definition of racism.

Can you trace your blood line through ... what language your great grandparents spoke

Who cares? Off topic.

What percentage of your community is in jail or likely to experience prison?

Whatever percentage breaks the law - and that's off topic as well.

by your definition I'm just a mean ol bigot....

If you blame white people who are alive today for slavery .. if you fail to realize that ALL people on the planet have slavery in their past .. if you sit in a pew for 20 years listening to anti-white garbage that blames whitey for everything wrong on the planet and then claim that you never heard any of it ... then yes you'd be a bigot.

to say that all people are equally capable of racism is gobbledygook

To say otherwise is ethno-babble.
EVERYONE can be racist if they are put in the proper position to exercise it.

BTW - this is an ELECTION which involves the power of the White House and the power of the vote as well as the power of the voting block. Did you catch that? POWER.

Actually the definition posted by Semper supports my arguments - I understand racism very well....your denials aside...

The "right" circumstances for racism to exist are an imbalanced power relationship between two distinct ethnic/ racial groups -

One Black man running for president does NOT mean that Blacks as a group have institutionalized POWER over any other group...

the fact that 40% of black men can expect to see prison time is not simply a question of Law breakers getting "theirs" - its an example of institutionalized Power of one racial or ethnic group over another...there are many studies on the subject as a quick google will show anyone whose interested...the court system is so corrupt at this point as to have lost all it original intent...

And why take offense when someone points out historical fact and the truth of their experience....????....Why do you take it on as "blame"
....???No one is blaming you personally...just asking that you open your understanding....

And all of this is separate from the question of whether Obama would make a good president btw...As I have said elsewhere - whoever is elected will have the opportunity to reinstate Habeas Corpus - if this is NOT done then we'll know whose side they are on and it won't be the side of "the people"....till then its all just talk...








[edit on 5/15/2008 by FlyersFan]

reply to post by Sublime620


Are you really going to stick with this NOT being an inference?

So, are you in fact accusing Obama of being a racist then?

No where did I insinuate Obama is a racist. Perhaps you really did not read the thread.

And what is this if not trying to engage an argument..

Or you can just label me a "liberal" and move on as you do to so many others.

Now you have brought partisan politics into this and then immediately accused me of doing it??? Where is the common sense in that?

Obama is a Liberal if I am not mistaken.

Now as you can see, and we all can, you have made an accusation there that was unwarranted and unsolicited.

You come on at the fourth page and begin asking me what my intention was in posting and all the while making the inference of racism and YOU want to accuse someone else of martyrdom? Now THAT is rich....

I never said you called him a racist,

Please try and maybe be a little more clear than, for in my slow witted way, this:

(as far as accomplishing things in the White House as a racist)?

Bespeaks volumes in opposition to your now defensive postulations to the contrary.
Again, read the entire OP and see for yourself that I never accused anyone of racism. Those were your words and inferences.

Sublime, I have no idea what your agenda is here, but please don't try the word game with me. I don't play it here. ATS is not the place for it and you have been around long enough to know that.

I post threads that I hope will be interesting, controversial and thought provoking. Sometimes I succeed and sometimes I do not. In my humble opinion, four pages is pretty successful and I appreciate your contributions. However, the innuendo and off candor remarks in transparent attempts to insinuate a point, is not worthy of ATS or the members you are conversing with.

As I stated before, if you are unsure of the topic of the thread, just read the OP, inferences aside, I meant what I said when I posted it.

Semper

reply to post by semperfortis


Look, let's drop this. I was asking if you if that's what you were saying, and then went further because I asked further questions along that line. That seems to be a popular view around here, and that's what I thought you were insinuating.

All you had to do was say "No." and it would have answered all of my questions. No need to make a martyr out of yourself.

Let's move on....

Liberation theology is not only practiced by African Americans. It is also found among native groups in South America and other populations that have been disenfranchised by a dominant majority in their countries. I know two Catholic priests who teach liberation theology in Latin America, though I'm not sure of the Vatican's position on it--I assume it is with their blessing. Liberation theology's aim is to uplift its congregation to an awareness of that community's inherent worth and to empower it to act in its own behalf, often after hundreds of years of being dominated.

I don't think there are many people who would argue that African Americans have not been disenfranchised for 300 years and are only now, in the last generation, emerging from that condition of subservience. It is not surprising that many black churches teach liberation theology and that many still feel anger toward the dominant majority. Obama himself has spoken about that anger and encouraged people to talk about it and understand it in a rational way.

I myself have used the word "separatist" to describe Obama's church and I apologize for the offense it may give others--I mean none. By separatist I mean that it aims to uplift its congregation with or without the blessing of the white community; that it defines itself apart from the dominant majority. By the definition provided by Semper this might be called "racist ," though I think that is too simplistic a way to describe a very complicated relationship of the minority to the majority. Are there African Americans who hate and fear whites? No doubt. But they're not passing laws to make us sit at the back of the bus. They have never had the power to dominate us in the same way we have done to them.

While I accept Obama's membership in, and loyalty to, his church, I have to think about the fact that he is aspiring to be a leader of ALL the American people, whites included. Black anger is frightening to white people, justifiable as it may be.

Obama has done well to disassociate himself from some of the beliefs of the Rev. Wright--there are certainly things Wright has said that I strongly disagree with. But to be fair, there are things white ministers say that I also disagree with.

Looking at Obama's stand on the issues, his voting record (there is a reason for his abstaining in some instances, which I won't go into here), his writings and many of his speeches (I haven't heard all or even most of them) I see no reason to conclude that he is suffering from black rage, or that he will be less than even handed in his dealings with all races.

It is important that he communicate this to the American people.