What freedom do you have that can not be infringed or taken away arbitrarily?

reply to post by sarcastic


yeah, ...well YOU can take a vow of poverty, in fact send your money to me, seriously, why does everybody say that to reach "enlightenment" to have to take a vow of poverty, there are people that can have money and realize it's simply a tool, not an obsession.

reply to post by jimmyx

For those who prefer and live by poverty rather than exploiting and using others for our own gratification, I neglected to say we do have the choice whether to PAY or REFUSE TO PAY and TAKE THE CONSEQUENCES.

Funny, the consequence that we are no longer suitable for nor qualify for credit merely means that we may noW learn how to live without credit.

That's not a bad consequence, not at all when you think about it some more.



fixed typos




[edit on 16-5-2008 by sarcastic]

Fascinating thread Jack.

I would say that there is a real distinction from mass or group (collective) rights and individual rights.

Now for example I know that I have freedom of thought. Nobody on earth could stop me from thinking in a certain way. However considering public education, restriction of certain methods of thinking (for fear of being labelled racist, sexist, anti-american etc) have certainly curtailed the rights of most of the population.

So rights exist in sofar as you as an individual are able to uphold your own. In that respect, I shall always have free speech and though, even once Habeas Corpus has been taken away from me.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
You most certainly can. My second cousin lost her house, because her dead mother-in-law got sued for not paying her debts as a result of death.

The point that got missed here is that the mother-in-law couldn't be sued...Her next-of-kin were sued instead. A successful suicide can't be sued, tried for criminal offense, or even be charged taxes anymore...Only an unsuccessful suicide can get you into trouble.

From the Preamble of the Declaration of Independence

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

(Bold emphasis added)
In short, this has been true throughout the entire history of human civilization, even if the only weapons available are sticks & stones. Any kind of legislation or "Emergency Action" may subdue some people from considering to fomenting a rebellion, but the harder they squeeze on it, the more people will rebel. A rebellion may be put down, but that's only a temporary "cure." Unless the government in question changes for the better or kills literally everybody, there remains the potential for more rebellions to follow.

reply to post by 44soulslayer


Whenever your rights are negated in any way, they cease to become a right, and are only now awarded as a matter of privilege.

You will no longer have the right to speak, or think, if in so doing you are viewed to be a threat. Eventually, your rights may only be exercised under pain of death. So if you are executed for speaking your mind, then they certainly have taken your rights away. And I fear we are well down the road to this now, and it is being paved as we speak here today.

reply to post by MidnightDStroyer


I'll have to get back to you on this. I am working on a piece for ATS Premium that I hope to post within a week or so, that actually delves into what you have brought up here. So, I don't want to spill the beans yet.

[off topic warning] ((You'll find that under a vow of poverty there are very many less distractions to keep your mind occupied.
Here's a different method to achieve the same result.
Invest in a decent motorcycle. (i recommend a Rebel or Eliminator, only about 2-3 thousand dollars new. )

Pack only 2 changes of clothes, a small tent, and a few hundred dollars.

(bathroom necessities are optional)

Ride. Just ride. Do not schedule anything. Get lost on purpose.

Leave all the electronics home. (mp3 player too)


This achieves the same result. By leaving everything for an undetermined time, you free up your mind to think. As you travel, your thoughts can be unrestricted by familiarity. You have no obligation to wear a watch or timepiece, nor are you restricted by schedules.

When your mind is concluded and you understand everything that you set out to think upon, return home. But ONLY when you have understanding should you return. )) [end off-topic]


I believe the crux of the rights issue is this, any right can and will be altered or abridged by wicked and well-meaning people alike. It is the solemn duty of the holder of such rights to enforce those rights as much as he/she feels they are worth. If they are not enforced, they are lost.
Also, rights are a relative idea. meaning that I may believe I have more rights than you believe I do. In which case, I may decide that I still retain those rights, whether you believe them or not. When you decide to take action against my rights, i am obligated by my conscience to enforce those rights.

If I do not, then we can assume 1 or more of these:
* I do not believe my rights were worth the cost of keeping
* I am a shallow, lazy turd who wants what is mine but will not actually do anything for it. (these deserve what is coming IMO)
* I did not know that my rights were being taken
* I found excuses to stay busy and avoid the subject (also deserve it)
* I was too afraid of the person(s) taking my rights
* I knew the enforcer abridging my rights was only doing his job, so I was going to be nice. (also deserves it, he/she chose to ignore the evidence to keep the job)



The simple fact is that our rights have all been abridged, and the above are the most common excuses used. Even when sufficient evidence is brought forth, most deny and cover up their self duty to fight. This condemns their children to bear the same slavery, but they still won't shut their excuse-makers to listen to the truth.

This makes me question whether such a suicidal group of people deserve rescue. Why should I fight for a nation such as this? Sure there are a few innocent out there who are standing up, but the majority simply sicken me with excuses and vehement denial.

So, who will distribute the e-books without cost?

I know of this website called thepiratebay.org. Simply register and upload the e-book as a torrent. Since they are based in Sweden, copyright laws are nothing short of hilarious to them. Basically, they are untouchable through the courts. just read the "legal threats" section.

As for author payment, you would probably need to rely upon donations. Personally, If I found the book to have been worth the read, I would donate enough to cover a hardback edition. You will find that those who want to act by truth will be willing to pay well for relevant information, I think.

@Karlhungis

Try using tor. I believe it will minimize the tracking threat. Simply because you can click a mouse button and be logged in from any random location in the world. I would highly advise it for any who regularly use the web in a "suspicious" manner.

Here's another Constitutional right we don't have anymore...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

...further supporting my assertions which are clearly documented here...

Illegitimate Federal Government and the Rule of Martial Law in the United States








[edit on 6/19/0808 by jackinthebox]