The powerful white light God is Evil

I don't know how many on ATS have had evil experiences. So I am not sure how much of what is being said is conjecture, wishful thinking or brainwashing.

I have spent a considerable amount of time in my life on the dark side. Not in the form of devil worship, or Satanic cults, or Satanic ritual abuse. I have had exposure to a lot of it though, and have professionally worked with it.

My exposure in the dark side were in less dramatic scenario's. I have found through my life that the obscure - evil , and the more covered over - evil , have at times the worst consequences or create the greater blindness. M. Scott Peck wrote "The People of the Lie." He describes the dark side well, in human society. And what he wrote, has also been my experience.

On a spiritual note: humans who are dark, are attracted to the light in someone who is spiritual, but not for long. It can be out of curiosity at first, but soon they scramble away. Usually they become very angry at the person who lives in the light and will attempt to bring them down. This is where it becomes very hard until the enlightened one gains more strength.

The light is much stronger than the dark. God is not dark! He resides in the light. So any reference as to him being dark or in the darkness is figurative. His acts however, can seem very dark and even evil, especially being seen through the lens of us lemmings.

Again, we don't have to like it, but perhaps we need to understand it.

Where we make a great mistake is; in putting God down on our level, trying to relate God to our frame of reference. We will fail every time.

Once a person gains the wisdom to understand the differences, one cannot go backward. Personal experience, and personal contact with both the God of Light, and the God of Darkness, will outweigh any opinion!

Whether Satan resides in the dark by design (part of a divine plan), or rebelliousness, is another question.

What is wrong with you people? Have you even bothered to study the religion that you currently slander. How can you say God is evil when all his teachings promote peace, acceptance, and love for fellow man? Throughout Earth's past there have been numerous situations in which life would have perished (at it's own hands) if not for the will of men trying to achieve a more tolerant existance. It pains me to read posts that promote a fallen angel bent on a path of destruction and the enslavement of man. I have learned to take a non-biased stand on issues and consider both sides of an argument before interjecting my opinions. This said, I can not fathom how a person could blindly follow a doctrine of evil.

As a side note... if you can not even grasp the english language or comprehend how to express yourself in writing (did you graduate high school?), how can you expect people to seriously consider your uneducated dribble. I think you should spend more time on learning how to write above a third grade level and less time slandering the one true God, the creator of man, and the protector of the weak and suffering. Ask yourself this: have YOU considered both sides or are you just regurgitating the ideals of a poisoned belief?

We all have the capacity to be a super being. We all have the capacity to be our own gods, and when we achieve that, we will ALL (even the Christians) realise that the concept of original sin is a lie, made by the great deceiver YHWH. Do you realise how ridiculous it is to believe that we inherit our father's sins? Do you realise just how OPPRESSIVE that kind of thinking is? Are we all meant to hate ourselves for mistakes we haven't even made?

You think my vanity is bad? It's nothing compared to the millions of self-righteous Christians you're in league with. Hell you're one of them yourself. If you didn't believe you're better than me then you wouldn't bother spouting your Biblical rhetoric like it's truth.

Your whole argument rests on the grounds that original sin exists. It doesn't. I know that, and I hope you realise it too one day.

Define your use of "super being"....sprout wings and fly around and save people?...become someone that shoots webs out of his wrist and swings around town capturing evil in his web? ....become an intelligence so advanced you cannot live on this stupid little planet anymore and jump to another universe....or do you come to the realization that your "super being" means you're better than everyone else?
If original sin is a lie, then how is it that people are still killing one another, commiting adultery, stealing. Don't you think those things are sins that stem from the original sin? Don't you think they are morally bad? If original sin didn't happen, then no one has died throughout history, and Julius Cesar is my neighbor and my girlfriend is Joan of Arc.
As far as passing sins along from father to son...I doubt a baby just born would be considered guilty of whatever the father did. I think you took that too literally....and no, we are totally not meant to hate ourselves for sins we did not commit....come on man!
And yes, I consider myself a Christian (NOT CATHOLIC) that believes in the "great deceiver" YHWH who spoke of forgiveness, peace, love, and all the other good things this "great deceiver" has done.
Actually, you're deceiving youself, and that's pretty tough to do, so I commend you for that.
And yes, your vanity stinks. You call me a self righteous Christian? I'm FAR from being "righteous", I struggle with it everyday. But I love the things I believe in and in the end, I hope I'm worthy enough. The only thing I do is live the best life I can live.
In closing, the last sentence you made about me "sprouting my Biblical rhetoric like it was truth" really just makes you sound like you're so much better than me. I shouldn't even be responding to this message because I know you'll come back with something better....

Hi There

I haven't read all the posts but my personal experiance is god painted by religion and ideas of what and who god is...is manmade. I was brought up as a Catholic but now as an adult i left the blind flock of sheep in the realisation that Catholics are infact worshipping SATAN but they don't realise it....Sad really!!

Yes I was told I would burn in hell unless I go to confession and have BLACK MARKS removed from my soul!!! As a 5/6 year old I was terrified of THIS SO CALLED GOD.

What a load of BS I had forced down my throat for 18 years, I too feel very very angry but my anger is aimed at the Catholic church.

It's Evil destroyed my family, because in the old days using contraception was a sin....(Yea right!) My grandmother stopped having sex with my grandad after giving birth to 12 children so my grandad used his own children instead. It's not all down to the church I know but it hasn't helped. My Grandad was abused by so called priests so you have a psycological knock on affect.

Due to sexual repression of this religion priests turn to the dark side! Why they can't be allowed to get married I don't know, this will solve a lot of these problems. You don't here about as many Vicar's abusing people after all so it works for them.

Now I ignore the God the church portrays, personally to me God is LOVE! There are a lot of people here with the REAL GOD working through them, they are trying their best to feed the poor and teach how to treat fellow humans, there are people giving unconditional love out their. A lot of this goes un-noticed. The evil in this world is human made via inmaturity as a race. All God can do is watch how we choose to use our free will other than physically working through those who choose to do good in this world.

Let the foolish carry on worshipping their faulse God's which we are clearly warned about them and thier churches in the bible. I do not take that word for word but to me this small section uses unknown religions of today, but it's symbolic and actually refurs to todays religions and societys as if predicting the future from way back when the bible was written.

Basically it say each religion is fine but it has somthing very mis-representing also meaning ALL have taking things out of context and used things for mis-use or delibrate mis-leadings such as NO GAYS ALLOWED words of the bible were twisted to suit the PEOPLE leading a certain religion, it had nothing to do with God and Gods views it was man made UP

My friends who are still Catholic can't belive I haven't sent my child to my old Catholic school where all their children go. There is no way on earth I am putting my child through all that brain washing and conditioning.

I hate religion and it's man made take on GOD. I love my personal take on what I feel from deep within my soul. You can't beat pure energy of love, that is my GOd, not a man sitting on a throne in heaven making comands and threats if i don't do as i am told.

That is SATAN disguising himself as GOD and the sooner people wake up to this fact the better our world will become.

I woke up and many others have too, don't give up hope yet, were not all sheep trust me.

You may not agree with my personal take on GOD which is fine, I am not here to convince anyone or sell my GOd. We all have our own individual paths to follow, it's part of learning who we are.

I haven't tried stopped my friends beliving in the Catholic religion and I haven't forced my own views on them. If they want to live their lives being sheep thats up to them. I have seen the light thats the differance.

Anyway great thread!!

reply to post by Peepers


Who is this LORD your refurring too? To me this is the MAN mADE rubbish written in the bible. God dosen't want pain and suffering, humans obviously do as it is our actions not GOD's actions.

As I say in my post god is interviening through people working for the Good of humans. There are lot's of good people out their going un-noticed doing fantastic job's out of LOVE which is what GOD is.

THis lord you back up your evidance with is very humanistic. This LORD could be some Alien for all I know but this LORD you refur to as GOD is a lie in itself as some people who contributed to the bible had little or no ture knowledge to who and what GOD is. Unless it is some ALIEN which will be more plausable....AKA a FAULSE GOD. For people to even buy this rubbish in this day and age goes beyond belife. The whole point of this post is the fact that we are being decieved by such quotes.

Of course God is not the portrayal of this so called LORD and to belive it would be stupid, just as stupid as those who fight in the name of GOD or say GOD made me start war on such a body. God does not MAKE anyone do anything, WE are the idiots that are responsible for our own actions but as we are too stupid too admit it we blame it on a so called GOD which I personally call SATAN myself. Only Satan would behave in this manner again SATAN PRETENDING TO BE GOD. Please wake up!!!!

GOD IS LOVE and nothing but, anything else is man made rubbish.

Inheriting the sins of our fathers is a reality. We can inherit physical attributes and defects, such as heart disease, blue eyes, etc. Without intervention, we can take an example of a really sick family, and watch the same behaviors being passed down from one generation to another. Like attracts like, and will produce a being that reflects it.

In our DNA it can be said that we inherited the Adamic sin. Shame is not a new emotion. We inherited toxic shame through ancestry that went all the way back to the original couple, and has been imprinted on our DNA. It is not a stretch. In this sense we can say we inherited the sins of our fathers.

Addiction can be passed down in our DNA. Recently in scientific labs - scientists have finally found an 'addiction gene!'

Using the example above, it is not hard to see how we are the progeny of our ancestors. We then transfer our inherited - inborn sin, or defects down, creating weaker generations, resulting in; a more diluted (gray) society.

reply to post by MatrixProphet


If that is true then there are millions of babies in Hell. I question the intelligence / smarts of people who believe babies are born with sin.

Originally posted by chise61


Oh btw i'm not a sir

My apologies ma'am

As for who killed how many, check this site.Check the rest of the site for much more.

Someone wanted us to remain ignorant and someone wanted us to gain knowledge. I would say the one who wants us to gain knowledge is the good guy.

Originally I wanted to used other names in place of "God" and "Devil", just to make people think about it without bias. Maybe I should have.

I just want to repeat that I DO believe in a higher power (whatever you want to call him/her/it), but I also believe that the Bible has nothing to do with that higher power. I don't want people to think that my belief is that "God" is evil and "Satan" is good. The entity in the Bible pretending to be God is evil and the entity in the Bible portrayed as evil (Satan) is actually "good" (my belief).

Just a suggestion: Your posts will be easier to read if you split the quotes.

Originally posted by beach2197
Define your use of "super being"....sprout wings and fly around and save people?...become someone that shoots webs out of his wrist and swings around town capturing evil in his web? ....become an intelligence so advanced you cannot live on this stupid little planet anymore and jump to another universe....or do you come to the realization that your "super being" means you're better than everyone else?

My use of "super being" can be defined as follows:
Healthy, wise, compassionate, ethical, expressive, unshackled, happy, selfless, and self-empowered. These are all things that in my mind, the Biblical God inhibits. Beyond this, I believe that we have been untaught certain metaphysical abilities that we once harnessed. No, we weren't able to fly, but we were able to heal the sick within our community in ways that would be deemed "magickal" nowadays.

I often feel superior to the majority of the people around me because I'm not weakened by drugs, I don't throw cigarettes out of my car window along unspoilt country lanes, I don't cheat on my girlfriend, I recycle, I read instead of watching American Idol, I work out. Are there people better than me? Of course. I'm not perfect, and many people (you, possibly) would contest the idea that I'm better than anyone else. The point is, I'm proud of who I am, and when I identify a fault within myself, I'm free to address it and improve. We should all be proud of who we are, whilst being able to identify and address our faults. Above all, I'm free to learn from whatever tradition I choose to and that can only lead to a greater wealth of knowledge than is provided by the Bible.

Originally posted by beach2197
If original sin is a lie, then how is it that people are still killing one another, commiting adultery, stealing. Don't you think those things are sins that stem from the original sin? Don't you think they are morally bad? If original sin didn't happen, then no one has died throughout history, and Julius Cesar is my neighbor and my girlfriend is Joan of Arc.

Humans are far from perfect. I agree. The reason we do bad things is because we're animals still catching up with the concept of civilisation. Animals steal, kill and are often polygamous. The only reason it is not seen as a sin for animals is because they haven't had a structure of law and morality set upon them. Now I'm not saying that law and structure aren't good. I believe in them, but we must recognise that, as a species, we haven't completely shaken our primal traits yet. Furthermore, I believe our upbringing is responsible for our wrongdoings. Look at our materialistic, hedonistic world - is it any surprise that a perfect innocent child grows up with skewed values?

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
Inheriting the sins of our fathers is a reality. We can inherit physical attributes and defects, such as heart disease, blue eyes, etc.

Inheriting biological traits and inheriting spiritual traits are different things. A child may resemble their father physically whilst acting nothing like them. Calling an innocent newborn child a sinner for no other reason than because their mother and father have led imperfect lives is a self-fulfilling prophecy. We call that child a "sinner" because we are certain they will grow up to commit wrongdoings and mistakes. Perhaps if we didn't label them a sinner before they've had a chance to prove themselves they might not fulfill that prophecy? Just a thought.

reply to post by Vimes

This is the perception god portrays "himself" as in the bible, telling he is all good, all caring, and call loving...which im saying is a load of crap!!! cause if "god" was ALL loving, and A:: caring and ALL understanding...

well then people on earth woul dnot be suffering so much!!

its impossible for that to happen.
If man has freewill then there can be no interference from God or higher lifeforms since it will inhibit our natural evolution.

read the rama series by arthur c clarke for some good insight on that.


[edit on 15-5-2008 by enrage]

MatrixProphet, speaking of DNA, how is it possible that the human race wouldn't have (in)bred itself out of existence by starting with (allegedly) only 2 humans? How would the effects of inbreeding be any different thousands of years ago than they are today? Wouldn't it be logical to assume that, in order to begin a species, an entire group (of probably at least a couple hundred) would be required? Ah, but don't bother the faithful with facts, I reckon.

reply to post by Lightworth


that's assuming there were only 2. according to sumerian-akkadian texts, there were at least seven birth "goddesses" taking part in the birthing of the human race as a slave species. let's consider the possibility that adam and eve were the first men and the first women, but the biblical account only covers the lineage of the adam and eve in noah's family tree, as it was retold by oral tradition until it was written down later.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by undo]

Lightworth, you are assuming that breeding is the only form of DNA manipulation or evolution. That is wrong.

1: The Sun is a constant source of radiation. Radiation is known to change DNA. So we are actually on a timer, slowly cooking, forever evolving by the Sun alone.

2: Knowledge. When a species gains knowledge on a certain subject, it "adapts" to the subject. For instance, now that humans have knowledge of most bacteria and germs, they keep themselves more clean. That in turn changes their life style, certain aspects of their appearance, health, etc. and that knowledge is then passed down to the kids, and over generations it greatly effects evolution. Knowledge can then be looked at as a significant and now very rapid form of evolution.

There are many more... but my point has been made. "Breeding" is not the only way things evolve.

reply to post by ALLis0NE


i would argue that current sanitary practices are effecting human evolution in a positive way. it's not making us stronger but the viri and bacteria is adapting, instead.

Originally posted by undo
it's not making us stronger but the viri and bacteria is adapting, instead.

My #3 example was going to be "The Immune System". Since that too is forced to evolve along side the viruses and illnesses.

But, even then, your argument would loose. Because the KNOWLEDGE made us stronger. Now that humans have knowledge of such viruses and diseases they can PREVENT, which is way more powerful than an immune system if you ask me.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by ALLis0NE]

reply to post by Lannock

If that is true then there are millions of babies in Hell. I question the intelligence / smarts of people who believe babies are born with sin.

I do not equate sin with hell. I do not believe in hell for one thing. Sin does not = hell.

Does anyone know of a single perfect human being? ...I rest my case!

We had to inherit sin and then have passed it down. Inheriting alcoholism or another addiction is a perfect example. That is a defect my friends!

What we do with our inherited sin is an entirely different matter!

Is God looking for perfection? Well, if he is, he is out of luck!

I think many of us are taking the whole "sin" thing too personally. It is a fact of life and one that a superior being would understand. Our religious leaders or dogmatic family members, and self-righteous friends, judge far more critically than Jah does, or none of us would be here!

Those that have not been born again are spiritually blinded to the truth and things in scripture (the bible) doesn't mean nothing to them anyways--"there is a way that seems right to a man but the end therof results in death"--meaning spiritual death (after you physically die). The prince and power of the air (of this present world or earth) is satan himself. People are naturally born into sin and start from a very early age, it's as simple as breathing you don't have to concentrate or think on it--you just do it. We inherited our sins from our original parents Adam and Eve, in the garden and have been paying a price ever since because of their disobedience and what the Lord Jesus Christ had told them not to do. You must repent and believe that Christ died on the cross for your sin's, that's the only way you will ever spend eternity with Him. Granted, you will spend an eternity somewhere--your physical body as mine will eventually die but you will go on, not merely vanish into nothingness. Scripture also points out that "to those who are perishing the bible is foolishness". There is eventually one coming onto the world stage (the anti-christ) who nation after nation will be yearning for and he'll have all the right answers to everyone's problems, he will be the great deceiver and supernaturally in-dwelt by satan himself. He will unfortunately make Hitler and Stalin look like school boy's. He will be the master deceiver and a charmer that would make Bill Clinton take a backseat to. Repent and believe before it's too late! You may ask or think how can I even know any of what I speak? Because by the grace of God I have the Holy Spirit to lead and guide me. I'm not perfect and still willfully sin, just forgiven! John 3:16.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Many of those who have faith (or born agan) are as blind and ignorant of the Bible's contents as the people critical of it.

Both critical and faithful need a good lesson in Biblical Literacy and History. It would open alot of people's eyes and change alot of people's minds on the subject.

Half the assertions in this thread would of never been made had people been familiar with what theyre talking about in the first place. The majority of the assertions made so far have been based on subjective and limited views.

Thats why I still say the argument would have been approached better from a non biblical point of view. One that looks at Maltheism or Dystheism. Which could lead to a good debate on what is evil and why do we consider pain, suffering, disease and death evil? Is it really evil or are we just too limited by our subjective perspective to actually know? How can we as humans, in our infintesimal position, really judge anything?

You seem to be under the impression that God is a Christian God and under the Christian doctrine. God is God. Not Muslim, Christian Mormon or anything you think God might be. God is none of these things.

What if you had it all wrong, what if when you died you were reborn to the earth? What if when you got cancer, or when you got raped, or when you were killed by the axe muderer or the soldier it didnt matter to God. What if when you died you were reborn to hell. Reborn to suffering. What if this earth is not what you think it is, but rather a hell that is a prison for our souls which are ancient. What if we actually have to prove Love over Fear, choose a selfless egoless existence in order to escape our hell. That would mean most of your Christians wont go to heaven. So if reincarnation handled the sorrows of death then would God be so bad not to interfere? If the Christian that believed that Jesus died for them but went around telling all the people he saw they were going to hell for being Gay or Non Christian, if that Christian doesnt go to heaven for being a know it all self centered twat then is God so one sided so unfair?
I think its all on us, its not what ya believe its your actions, If you spread Fear then you will be reborn to this world over and over. If you spread love then your chances of ascension are much greater.

Originally posted by Lannock

[If that is true then there are millions of babies in Hell. I question the intelligence / smarts of people who believe babies are born with sin.]

If you don't mind i'd like to give you my take on this. First i refuse to believe that god would send an innocent child to hell. I don't think that "the sins of the fathers being past to the son" is meant as literally as some take it. Imo i think it's more along the lines of, when we were first created we had no knowledge of good & evil therefore we could not "sin" in the sense of the word.

When adam & eve sucumbed to temptation and therefore learned about good & evil they opened the door for us to sin. When they gained this knowledge they would naturally pass it down to thier children, therefore passing down the option for thier children to committ sin, not passing down thier own sin. The only way for god to change this and prevent us from being sinful, would have been for him to kill them and start over with new people that didn't have the knowledge of good & evil.

If a child is born and never taught the difference between right & wrong, good & evil then he has no sense of either and therefore is incapable of sinning as he knows not what it is. Ex; if that child has never been told that it is wrong to kill and goes outside to play, starts throwing rocks at tress and birds and hits & kills a sparrow, he doesn't know he has done anything wrong because he has never been told and can not have that knowledge wiyhout being told.

Had adam and eve never eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil they would not know of these things therefore could not pass on this knowledge, so we would have continued to live in innocence. I believe that is what's meant be the sins being passed down. But that's only my opinion.


[My apologies ma'am

]

lol quite alright, no need to apologize, no way for you to have known.


[As for who killed how many, check this site.Check the rest of the site for much more.]

I wasn't disagreeing with you, i'm aware of how many deaths are attributed to god. I was only referring to the fact that there are deaths attributed to satan & you neglected to speak of them.



[Someone wanted us to remain ignorant and someone wanted us to gain knowledge. I would say the one who wants us to gain knowledge is the good guy. ]



You may be right in your belief, i'm just asking is his motive for wanting us to gain knowledge purely for our benefit, to truely help us,or is it strictly to defy someone ? If it is the latter, then that would not make him the good guy.



[Just a suggestion: Your posts will be easier to read if you split the quotes.

]


If this was meant for me i apoligize, i'm very new here and still learning. There are still things that i can't seem to get right yet. I just learned how to seperate my paragraphs a couple days ago, because Jack In The Box was nice enough to help me out.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

Those that have not been born again are spiritually blinded to the truth and things in scripture (the bible) doesn't mean nothing to them anyways-

But this is an example of what many of us are talking about! You are writing with much conviction, I appreciate that. It does not however, translate to being Truth.

I am a spiritual person who loves the Bible and believes that it was divinely written, but not for the reasons, or for the stand that you represent.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

To grow spiritually to me means; to not be bound by religious rhetoric. When I read a text like yours I feel the bondage! Quite frankly, it makes me glad that I left religion.

I too, claim to be guided by the spirit. Yet, our messages are so different. It goes to show that each and every one of us need to be guided by what seems to us, to have a ring of truth.