The powerful white light God is Evil

reply to post by Vimes


The problem behind that though is, who is to say what is or isn't moral (or right)?
Is it going to be the One who was here before time began, the One who created everything? I think so, the Bible says that our ways are not His ways, man was given a choice by Adonai to either live or die, your god tempted man to sin, because your god himself was in sin, so man sinned and was brought down to the same level as your god (actually a little lower) and your god raped pillaged and plundered the human race.
God gave man a choice, we chose, now we live with the consequences, we knew what they would be, but because of your god we chose poorly.
God gave us freewill, He loves us and did not make us robots, because a robot cannot truely love someone, love is a choice and it is an action.
My God saw what happened and prepared a way so man could be redeemed from this sinful and corrupted world, the Way is Yeshua, God in human form, who came and lived with us an died for our sins, that's right, God died, but He rose agian from the grave and offers the same to us, the chance to live forever, with Him.
My god tells me to love others, your's says to just love yourself.
What is your god doing to help out humanity?
Mine has healed me of my heart problems, brought people back to life, given people food and housing to the homeless and the poor, He has brought hope to the hopeless, He has rescued those in harms way, He has doen many, many great and wonderful things, all He asks in return is that we love Him and obey Him. He knows what is best for us, all we need to do is listen, that is why He sent us the Holy Spirit, to guide us.

"Holy Spirit, I ask you to soften Vimes heart and to show him the Truth of the love of Yeshua, so that he will chose the right path, the path that Yeshua laid out for us, and that he will accept Yeshua as his God and best friend. I pray this in Yeshua name, Amen"

-Jimmy

reply to post by jimmyjackblack


did you make that choice? or did two people hundreds of thousands of years ago make that choice for you? how fair and moral is that? you cant make a choice for me when it comes to sinning if you sin i dont get counted into the mix, so why is it that two people god only knows how long ago chose for the entire EVENTUAL human race, that doesnt make any sense.

[edit on 10-5-2008 by caballero]

"Women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says."(1 Corinthians 14:34)

"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched." (Mark 9:43)

"One of illegitimate birth shall not enter the congregation of the Lord." (Deuteronomy 23:2)

"Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ." (Ephesians 6:5)

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 )

You know what you guys were right god is moral and loving. we are all gods children yet woman are of less value than men? rape is ok if you pay for it. slaves what the hell god says it was ok and if those damned slaves give you any lip you have divine permission to beat the # out of them.
that friends is one loving god.

reply to post by caballero


Gee wiz.
This is getting into a bunch of silly billyness.

These verses you posted have already been explained, so there the answer to that, you can either except it or not, that's your descision, there's no need for me to copy and paste what others have wrote in a responce to that thread.

Ever hear the saying that when a butterfly flaps it's wings it causes a hurricane on the other side of the world? Well, for every action there is a reaction, that's the truth. A man builds a nuclear missle, but the end of a whole civilization rests on the tips of the fingers that push the button that shoots the missle, one action can have long lasting effects.
Adam and Eve sinned, they chose death and the whole earth was cursed, then they had babies, the babies were born into sin and into a cursed world. Mankind ever since then has been born into sin.

-Jimmy

Originally posted by Vimes
This is the perception god portrays "himself" as in the bible, telling he is all good, all caring, and call loving...which im saying is a load of crap!!!
cause if "god" was ALL loving, and A:: caring and ALL understanding...

well then people on earth woul dnot be suffering so much!!

I'm not sure which bible you're reading, really. The god of the old testament is wrathful, jealous, vengeful, violent and cruel. And that's to those that believe in him!

The loving, caring god you speak of was invented in the late 1960's when Christianity was scared of the growing secular "if it feels good, do it" movement. Nothing more, nothing less.

Check out how many times the word "love" is used in conjunction with god. Even the Jesus character in the bible doesn't speak much about love. He speaks more about retribution than love.

So, again, I'm not really sure where you're getting this "god is love" idea, because it certainly isn't from the bible.

Did God create Evil?

At a certain college, there was a professor with a reputation for being tough on Christians. At the first class every semester, he asked if anyone was a Christian and proceeded to degrade them and to mock their statement of faith. One semester, he asked the question and a young man raised his hand when asked if anyone was a Christian.

The professor asked, "Did God make everything, young man?"

He replied, "Yes sir He did!"

The professor responded, "If God made everything, then He made evil, and if we can only create from within ourselves, then God is evil."

The student didn't have a response and the professor was happy to have once again proved the Christian faith to be a myth.

Then another man raised his hand and asked, "May I ask you something, sir?"

"Yes, you may," responded the professor.

The young man stood up and said "Sir, is there such thing as cold?"

"Of course there is, what kind of question is that? Haven't you ever been cold?"

The young man replied, "Actually, sir, cold doesn't exist. What we consider to be cold, is really an absence of heat. Absolute zero is when there is absolutely no heat, but cold does not really exist. We have only created that term to describe how we feel when heat is not there."

The young man continued, "Sir, is there such a thing as dark?"

Once again, the professor responded "Of course there is."

And once again, the student replied "Actually, sir, darkness does not exist. Darkness is really only the absence of light. Darkness is only a term man developed to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally, the young man asked, "Sir, is there such thing as evil?"

The professor responded, "Of course. We have rapes, and murders and violence everywhere in the world, those things are evil."

The student replied, "Actually, sir, evil does not exist. Evil is simply the absence of God. Evil is a term man developed to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. It isn't like truth, or love, which exist as virtues like heat or light. Evil is simply the state
where God is not present, like cold without heat or darkness without light."

The professor had nothing to say.

Originally posted by caballero
we are actually a step up from this supposed creator of the universe.

the greeks would call that hubris my friend . . .

I tip my hat to the OP though . . . he is spouting things that most people will not agree with. I suppose that takes courage of some kind.

Still, anyone who could acknowledge the existence of a creator, but chastise him, needs to rethink things.

No matter how much you may disagree with this world. I'm sure you're grateful to be alive. If you never existed, you would not be able to perceive and judge things so disparagingly.

Originally posted by caballero
"Women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says."(1 Corinthians 14:34)

"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched." (Mark 9:43)

"One of illegitimate birth shall not enter the congregation of the Lord." (Deuteronomy 23:2)

"Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ." (Ephesians 6:5)

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 )

You know what you guys were right god is moral and loving. we are all gods children yet woman are of less value than men? rape is ok if you pay for it. slaves what the hell god says it was ok and if those damned slaves give you any lip you have divine permission to beat the # out of them.
that friends is one loving god.

You got these EXACT SAME QUESTIONS FROM ANOTHER POSTER www.abovetopsecret.com... so since you copied his questions and forgot to put the answers in, I will copy and paste the exact same answers as well.
Ok you have to remember that this is Paul and he wrote a letter: He wrote this letter the Church of God which is at Corinth. So what you are reading is someone’s letter. He’s talking to them.

1 Corinthians 1

1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;


1 Corinthians 14
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

This is more about the busy body women. This church was probably bad at it. Have you ever walked into a church today and all the women is gather around and they do nothing but gossip. This is not good. This is what he is telling them. He is saying Shut the women up. Keep them quite. They are hurting the church.

Mark 9

42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Yep, I say this too. Either that or hang them. Look what this verse is talking about. How many sick people today molest our children. How many men rape and kill our kids.

Mark here is saying cut your hand off if its going to offend you like this, If you can’t control your own hand, or you will go to hell. Your not going to go to Heaven if you go around raping our children.

It was just in the news that a man starting raping his daughter at age 11 then put her in his basement age 18 because he knew she was going to move out. locked her up for 24 years father 7 kids by her. His own daughter here. I say hang him. God does too. Why? God does not want seed from this man too be past down the generations. He’s a bad seed. I would say hang him.

Deuteronomy 23

2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

Old Testament Very strict God isn’t He. He didn’t want women running around being whores. Having children without Dads like you see going on today. Do you really think having a one parent household is better than having two?

God set rules up to help this world and make it easier to live in. We ignored them.


Ephesians 6:5

5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

It’s a fact that slaves and servants exist. So what is God saying here too them. Obey them do your job. He teaching them cause God knows how mean another human is. He knows another human will beat the crap out of you if you disobey them. Which you should know is fact. Humans would often beat their slaves for disobeying. He was trying to help them not get beat.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Good rule isn’t it. Too bad its not like that today. He took a woman’s virginity he should marry her. Even today men would prefer a virgin over a whore. So God is saying you take her virginity marry her.

Luke 16:17

17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

There you go. God has said who He is. Jesus fulfilled it. It is so. The laws and rules are in place.

reply to post by Vimes

Your not the only one angry, so is God. Remember though the dragon is also mad at God and when he realize he was cast out of Heaven he came after us to make war with us. So that is why we have these sins and hate and death.

Revelation 12

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.




Psalm 7
11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

Genesis 6

5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

God created humans, and humans created religion. Don't blame everything on God. This world was never meant to be perfect.

Suffering is part of it. It's all perspective, you suffer here and your spirit has a chance to grow. If you are too weak, selfish, or shortsighted, the world breaks you and you turn to drugs, or satin, or hating God to try and cope.

reply to post by Vimes




d00d while i believe in God i dont believe that we need to go to church, need to obey "rules" or not rules in the bible such as pray at church, etc etc etc. I still think there is great morallity in the bible, etc such as "thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, LOVE thy neighbour, no matter who they may be, or what they believe in. Be caring, be gentle, etc....

Howvere when it starts with things like, "thou shalt hate those who dont follow your religion, who are ghey, who have different coluoured skin, etc.... then you know it's just not something that is nice and pretty much cancells out all that "love thy neighbour" stuff, you know it's been put in there by meanies, bullies, a-holes, crazy people.

I for a fact know a god exists, me and god are like this *crosses fingers*... close as. To much stuff has happened for it to be all random.

try not to harm, be understanding, be reasonable, you dont know all, etc. Who knows why we were put on this earth in fact i think its a bit of a cruel joke to be honest and me and god will have some words about that when i die ;-P But seriously.... dont worry about that devil rubbish. I dont think god would create some spirit here just to be against god, and do evil things on purpose, etc but then again who knows ;-P Maybe there is a devil out there trying to hamstring us, well then that devil has something to learn. a lot to learn and i bet the devils not a bad soul at all when you get down to it all and get down to the deeper understandings of what makes the devil tick....

But seriously. Whatever. If the devil or god exist, does it really matter? Will it impact on you so much during this life that your minds going to explode? Hell quantum physics has been owrked out mathematicallly that something like 11 or 12 dimensions exist, and pretty much what that means is that every single particle, is created of strings of energy that are in every single time, and space possible and imaginable at the same time if every different reality, dimension, etc.... and pretty much all is one and one is all....when you get down to it all.

You do know that your mind also creates your reality that you see dont know? Hell even in the song by Incubus called "New Skin" it has in there that before the 20th century all we could taste, smell, see, hear feel was al we knew of reality but since the knowledge of the charted electromagnetic spectrum, we have learn that all we new to be reality beofre was just 1 millionth of what we now know..... So cmon man. Dig a little deeper. Theres not much to it. We live. We die. It's going to happen. Speak to god then if you must. Until then just take a chill pilll. Sure talk to god when you get lnely. For instance. Challenge your beliefs just that little bit man.


So you believ god wont here you if you dont go to church to pray? Or how about if you dont get down into your ritual of praying and just talking to god or thinking it? Does it matter? Is there a dfference? Who knows? Who's to say? The pope? The pope came out and said gays are an abomination... Well pffft. Bible says Love thy Neighbour. Erm you think the popes read the bible? lol. Think jesus (if you believe in jesus) would say the same things baout those gays? I think he'd say forgivness, love thy neighbour. He'd probably start washing thier feet as they entered his home, etc.

So prettymuch what im trying to say and hope you will listen is. Open your mind. Cahllenge your belief system regularly. Get back to basics. Ask why this. Ask why that. Think logically. Dont get swept up in religion. Where did it come from.? etc.... THINK!!!!!

Did somebody summon me?

lol, whoops i think i am supposed to be popping up in the wegi board thread aboooooouuuuuut....



....NOW

Vimes...Blaming God for Earthly misfortune and suffering is like blaming your mother for getting beat up by bullies on the playground.

If I understand your reasoning, you're saying that if God was really good, he wouldn't allow suffering and pain. We would have no worries about making a possible wrong choice, because there would be no possibility of negative consequences.

Forgive these simple analogies, but your idea of a just God would be similar to an overprotective mother. One who is so protective, that she never lets you leave your room. In your room is a bed and a chair. No books, no radio, no TV. (they could be harmful) By never leaving your room, you remain safe.
You never get to experience anything that lets you grow, but the important thing is you're safe. Is that what you want God to be for you?

Vimes
A dominant theme in dualistic Satanic literature is the feeling that God and Satan are not what they appear to be. There is a strong belief in nearly all Satanic thought (except Evil Satan As Victor as above) that if Satan is real, then he is also not what White Light religions make him out to be.
Satan therefore represents a struggle against tyranny and a fight against the brainwashed masses and the unthinking, cruel and punishing hordes of mankind that follow the Right Hand Path: The bloody path of God worship. God, as a powerful White-Light force, has tricked and deluded mankind into accepting its gospel truth, and to put it simply: The majority of mankind are too stupid, fearful, weak and sheep-like to ever realize that they are following the wrong god.

God can only use below the belt tactics to spread lies and corruption, spreading his monotheistic religions that have been the center of bloodshed and evil and using all his powers to trick humanity. However... such tricks only work on the sheep, the mindless hordes. Nevertheless, those who represent truth, the oppressed and alien elite, either face a life of being hidden outcasts and secret aliens in society, or face a difficult struggle against the foolish herds of man.

When it comes to the bible and other religions, one need only use one's own common sense and reasoning to see that it's not the true word of GOD. Reality check, there isn't a person on this planet who knows GOD or what he truly stands for, that's if God even exists. Anyone who believes otherwise is deluded and dishonest. If GOD were a jigsaw puzzle, then it's safe to say humanity doesn't even have 5% of the complete picture. We are all just guessing...............

Vimes so we should all turn away from GOD and worship Satan instead. No thanks. Worship is for slaves and you're a slave to that which you worship. My inner truth is my guiding light and that's all I need......I'm a slave to no one, except capitalism, but then aren't we all.

Originally posted by Vimes
I hate god, becaue he apparently created us, yet he says he give sus free will, but at the same time he tells us, that if we dont follow his orders we will spend an eternity inn hell, no wi am sorry, but i refude to follow and obye such a power hungry murderin god...

i have allready pleged my allegiance to the true go od this world....

Whats up with your spelling? Anyway, to me you sound like a emo kid who is just trying to play the role of being gothic.Are your fingernails painted black?Do you have piercings in your face?Some believe in God and some dont but the anger you have for him is really strong.If ya ask me God needs to wipe out this planet anyway because its filled with nothing but mostly filth and greed anyway.

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
reply to post by Vimes

 

He will come back for us though and there will be a new world and the will literally be Heaven on Earth and there will be peace forever.

-Jimmy

Sorry, but if this is true, what's taking God so long to set up this whole heaven on Earth thing?

I'm not trying to criticize anyone's beliefs, just trying get a better grasp on this whole God and heaven and religion thing..

It appears he's not the only one whose angry. I feel and think like you sometimes but then reasoning takes over and I begin to realise that this world isn't filled with greedy and filthy people. They are a minority. Most people are good, decent and friendly and just like you, trying to make sense of a world, that for the most part, makes no sense at all.



[edit on 11-5-2008 by kindred]

smokingmonkey
God created humans, and humans created religion. Don't blame everything on God. This world was never meant to be perfect.

Suffering is part of it. It's all perspective, you suffer here and your spirit has a chance to grow. If you are too weak, selfish, or shortsighted, the world breaks you and you turn to drugs, or satin, or hating God to try and cope.

Where did my spirit come from?

No doubt you or someone else will reply "God". So if my spirit came from God then it was already perfect, so why do I need to suffer pain to grow spiritually. Are you saying GOD isn't perfect and God itself needs to grow?

Personally I think this whole we need to suffer to grow spiritually is a load of crock. We can create what ever reality we want for ourselves, but it seems that people just find it so much easier to dwell in their own self pity and suffering rather than change their life's and reality by simply changing their attitude towards life. Having said that, it's not easy when your surrounded by 6 billion people who nearly all feel or have been brainwashed into thinking the same way.

reply to post by Vimes


Hello Vimes,

I’m just starting to learn about Gnostic Christianity……….I hope you take a look at it too.

For a long time I really liked the story of Jesus as it is told in the New Testament. But there were a lot of things that did not add up. But I have come to understand that scripture can be corrupted by men ( and from my point of view they have) and if you lack common sense you either end up a televangelist or a worshiper of Mammon.

There are a lot of gospels out there kiddo, like the gospel of Thomas, Judas, and Mary. They give a different spin on the whole god thing.

If you take a good look at them you might just realize that the more you hate god the more you hate yourself for the kingdom of god is not in heaven but in our hearts.

If you want to know god you must start by getting to know yourself and try to be like a little kid.

This is not about right or wrong , up and down, good and evil. It’s about you and your heart and what you do with your life.

I challenge you to truly listen to the words of this old man, watch a few of his videos (totally different than what you think about Christianity) because we have all felt hate and some times it feels really good but so does the other side of the coin.





P.S. If you can’t understand him just look him up on you tube(youtube.com... ) and click the "more" icon it’s all writen there.

Good stuff........

[edit on 11-5-2008 by Izarith]

reply to post by Vimes


I have to say if god is fiction then isn't satan? And if thats the case everything that you are trying to "blame" god for is just chalked up to natural happenings. I truthfully believe in an afterlife but I don't think any of the man-made religions have it right; the best saying is do unto others as you would do unto yourself. That saying about sums up how any human being should act, regardless of religion or the lack there of. Also if you are basing this entire discussion on the Bible, the largest underlining fact is that Satan gave us sin so there for there's no world peace because of your head honcho not the "god" your stating is responsible.