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So How Can One Mason Know That All Masons Are Innocent?

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posted on May, 12 2008 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by Roark
 

The fact is that you can't debunk or disprove the evidence that william has presented. You're wasting your time by trying to debunk an expert like him and/or other ex-freemasons, who you have never met in your entire life.

We should be laughing. You should be ashamed.




posted on May, 12 2008 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by ChadAndrewATS
reply to post by Roark
 

You're wasting your time by trying to debunk an expert like him and/or other ex-freemasons, who you have never met in your entire life.

We should be laughing. You should be ashamed.


Have you met all of the Masons that you include in your copy and paste anti-Mason threads?

[edit on 5/12/2008 by eye open doors]



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 02:07 AM
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Originally posted by freight tomsen
That sigh comes from fighting for the losing team.

That sigh comes from constantly calling me a liar, when you can clearly see that the public is really starting to discern which of us is telling the truth.

I would sigh too if I came to ATS everyday trying to desperately discredit (to no avail) informed conspiracy researchers like myself. Free humanity is RAPIDLY awakening to your Masonic manipulations now and those sighs are going to turn into chronic depression if you don't hurry up, break free from your self-imposed Masonic blood-oaths, and help expose this crooked organization.


The sigh was one of exasperation in responding to people like you with the knowledge that you will never present one iota of credible evidence to support your ridiuclous claims.

I called you a liar because you said that Masons come to the BBS every day to claim that all Masons are innocent. So here's your opportunity to prove to me that you actually tell the truth. Find me one example of a Mason saying that. Just one.



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 03:11 AM
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Originally posted by Roark

The sigh was one of exasperation in responding to people like you with the knowledge that you will never present one iota of credible evidence to support your ridiuclous claims.

I called you a liar because you said that Masons come to the BBS every day to claim that all Masons are innocent. So here's your opportunity to prove to me that you actually tell the truth. Find me one example of a Mason saying that. Just one.


I knew you'd say that! Am I psychic? No! You're all a skipping record of lies and denial. Other normal people on ATS, looking for the truth, opening their minds, show what I'd call an "authentic spiritual presence" that comes through in their posts - a personal blossoming in research and expression. With every Mason on here (except possibly Skyfloating) their is no "authentic spiritual presence" behind their posts, no personal blossoming in research and expression... nothing like that. All they've got to offer are 101 misinfo tactics which create the effect of there just being one spiritual presence (satan?) behind them all. They are a unified front of brick wall denial.

No offense Mason's, I'm just saying once you've sold your soul even your posts come across spiritually devoid. If you're following the MasonicLight know that this is actually darkness. As the great Jim Tucker said:


“The reason they [the Bilderbergers] want secrecy is because they’re doing evil. Evil is done in darkness. Good works are done in sunshine.” -Jim Tucker, “Endgame”


What goes for Bilderberg goes for Masonry, times a million world-wide members. Secret societies are inherently bad, end of story. All good works of truth are done in the open with NO need for secrecy.



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 05:08 AM
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Freight Tomsen...

You told a lie. I called you on it. I gave you an easy opportunity to demonstrate that you were in fact telling the truth and you... change the topic? Weak, dude.

Can you address my point about your misrepresentations of Masons here on ATS before you continue presenting yourself as the arbiter of Truth?

Thanks.



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 06:02 AM
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I don't lie in my real life and I don't lie on ATS. I am philosophically opposed to lying and secrecy. You Masons however, have taken a Masonic blood-oath of secrecy, which forces you to lie about a great many things. Therefore, you are the liars, not me.



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by ChadAndrewATS
The fact is that you can't debunk or disprove the evidence that william has presented. You're wasting your time by trying to debunk an expert like him and/or other ex-freemasons, who you have never met in your entire life.

We should be laughing. You should be ashamed.


Well, to be honest with you, I haven't actually tried...

When I read that he was an ex-Satanist AND vampire AND Mormon AND Mason, who became a UFO expert, I kinda dismissed him out of hand as a bit of a nutter.

What exactly do I have to be ashamed of?

At least I haven't ripped off thousands of gullible, but otherwise decent, people for my own gain... like Bill Schnoebelen.

When he writes a book whose proceeds go straight to a non-religious charity (instead of his back pocket), then I might read it.



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by freight tomsen
I don't lie in my real life and I don't lie on ATS. I am philosophically opposed to lying and secrecy. You Masons however, have taken a Masonic blood-oath of secrecy, which forces you to lie about a great many things. Therefore, you are the liars, not me.


I have shown you to be a liar, duder.

Demonstrate the same of me and I'll get out of your hair.

You still haven't responded to my actual point, by the way... It's starting to look awkward...



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 06:38 AM
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I asked the question:


Originally posted by freight tomsen
Another question: Why do ALL the ATS Masons, who are online simultaneously en masse all day every day, come here just to claim "that ALL Masons are innocent?"


To which you replied:



No one has said that. You are a liar, dude. So, you don't really have a leg to stand in regards to preaching about the "truth" either...


I didn't lie, I asked a question. What are you going on about? You're harping on me being a liar and avoiding some lie you caught me in. This is the last refuge of the hopeless. To accuse your opponent of your crimes. You are oath-bound to lies and secrecy! I am free humanity and do not lie - not to my wife, my parents, friends, co-workers, strangers on the street or ATS. You Masons HAVE to lie. You are forced to lie due to the nature of your organization.



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by freight tomsen


I didn't lie, I asked a question. What are you going on about? You're harping on me being a liar and avoiding some lie you caught me in. This is the last refuge of the hopeless. To accuse your opponent of your crimes. You are oath-bound to lies and secrecy! I am free humanity and do not lie - not to my wife, my parents, friends, co-workers, strangers on the street or ATS. You Masons HAVE to lie. You are forced to lie due to the nature of your organization.


Wrong again. You've been caught in a whole myriad of lies. And each time you are exposed, you just simply ignore it, and ove on to other lies.

This is why you refused the one-on-one debate. You know as well as I do that you are bearing false witness and spreading disinformation. And you know that your lies cannot hold up under close scrutiny, thus the reason you avoid *all* debates, and pretty much ignore responses.

Aside from "Chad Andrew", you're not fooling anybody.



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by freight tomsen
 


Freight Tomson

You said:



Why do ALL the ATS Masons, who are online simultaneously en masse all day every day, come here just to claim"that ALL Masons are innocent?"


Roark simply asked you to point out one mason on ATS who claims that "All Masons are innocent."

Can you do so? Yes or No?

This is important, since you have claimed that Masons are here "just" for that reason (your words, not mine.)

If you claim this is the only reason why we are here, please back up your claim with Roark's simple request.

Otherwise it is clear that you are bearing false witness against your neighbour. (Oh dear, isn't that breaking one of the 10 commandments? Something which I, as a mason, refuse to do...)

[edit on 12/5/2008 by Saurus]



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by Roark
Freight Tomsen...

You told a lie. I called you on it. I gave you an easy opportunity to demonstrate that you were in fact telling the truth and you... change the topic? Weak, dude.

Can you address my point about your misrepresentations of Masons here on ATS before you continue presenting yourself as the arbiter of Truth?

Thanks.




check out , Rockpuck(ATS member , who claims to be Mason and claims that Masonry is not evil ....



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by BrezhnevX
check out , Rockpuck(ATS member , who claims to be Mason and claims that Masonry is not evil ....
Freight says we're going around saying "that ALL Masons are innocent" whereas Rockpuck, and many others are saying "Masonry is not evil".

Don't you see a difference between those two? No Mason here is claiming that in a group of millions of people every single one of them is a saint without flaw or malice in their hearts. Both the OP/thread title and Freight's assertion seem to be trying to put words in the mouths of the Masons who post here. Find one quote on this board where a Mason has claimed "that ALL Masons are innocent". Freight insists such a quote exists, but doesn't even attempt to back it up.



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton
Freight says we're going around saying "that ALL Masons are innocent"


Not only that - he says we are just here for that reason...


Originally posted by freight tomsen
Why do ALL the ATS Masons, who are online simultaneously en masse all day every day, come here just to claim "that ALL Masons are innocent?"



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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Just a friendly reminder, or a preemptive strike if you will.

That Courtesy Is Mandatory from us all. Especially if the conversations get heated.


So Far so good


Sauron,
Forum Moderator



[edit on 12/5/2008 by Sauron]



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by Saurus
Roark simply asked you to point out one mason on ATS who claims that "All Masons are innocent."

Can you do so? Yes or No?


I can. Trinityman did, relative to his experience. I still hold that merely encountering someone who says, "I am not guilty/I am innocent," is still not adequate proof considering the voluminous amount of heresay and circumstantial evidence that I have come across recently (new to this topic).

I have been lied to point blank by an ex in reference to whether or not she cheated on me. And I was sure that she was telling the truth...despite my concerns, which later turned out to be completely right on.


Originally posted by Trinityman
We're talking about two different things here I think. defending ones own lodge is all about personal experience, and from personal experience I know my lodge is not up to anything bad. But beyond this, I have visited many many other lodges, and many many other freemasons have visited my lodge. I have never met anyone who felt differently about the subject.


That satisfies Roark's request, as far as this thread goes.

I have a slight problem with the agression that has taken place in this thread...which began with a modicum of civility and was rather pleasant. In less than two pages, it has devolved into a "he said, she said."



I would like to post more tomorrow when I have a bit more time to address some of the issues that I would like to bring up..

[edit on 12-5-2008 by TrustMeIKnow]



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 11:43 PM
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Nah dude.

Trinityman (rightly) spoke only from his first-hand personal experience of Masons that he had actually met, and did NOT make grand sweeping statements about ALL Masons like our issue-dodging friend Freight Tomsen has done.

Next!



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 01:04 AM
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The OP made the statement, not me. I used the statement in a question. That is all. Stop harping.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by Roark
Trinityman (rightly) spoke only from his first-hand personal experience of Masons that he had actually met


Where did I not say that as well?


Originally posted by TrustMeIKnow
I can. Trinityman did, relative to his experience.


I find you a bit snide. I was the one who brought the "every single Mason in the world' concept and you picked it up and started using it as fuel from your side of the fence.

I asked the Masons how they can defend the entirety of their membership based on their knowledge of their ideals....you don't get to demand that the burden of proof in that capacity, regardless of whether or not you think someone lied, in this thread or not....

Don't you think (on your own)?

Start your own thread and cease hijacking this one...



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by TrustMeIKnow
I can. Trinityman did, relative to his experience. I still hold that merely encountering someone who says, "I am not guilty/I am innocent," is still not adequate proof considering the voluminous amount of heresay and circumstantial evidence that I have come across recently (new to this topic).


  1. Innocent until proven guilty.
  2. Burden of proof on the accuser, not the accused.
  3. Hearsay inadmissible.
  4. Circumstantial evidence is weak.

I have been lied to point blank by an ex in reference to whether or not she cheated on me. And I was sure that she was telling the truth...despite my concerns, which later turned out to be completely right on.
Was she a Mason? If not, I fail to see what your love life has to do with this thread.



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