God can't possibly be "moral"

Originally posted by Alethia
God is a contradiction in terms to me. He is supposedly the perfect being, and hence we needed Jesus Christ to communicate with him, because we can't communicate with God directly because we are imperfect. How/why can a perfect being not communicate with an imperfect one? If I'm perfect, doesn't that mean I'm so perfect at communicating I can communicate with anyone, good or bad? If I'm perfect, I can't be corrupted by talking to an imperfect person, because I'm already perfect?

If we have to communicate through Jesus Christ, does that mean Jesus Christ isn't perfect, which is why we could talk to him? The son of the perfect being isn't perfect himself?

Also, if God is perfect, and made us in his image, then why are we imperfect? We're supposed to be like him right? Why would a perfect being make an imperfect being?

I also love how we are told we have to choose God. God wants us to love him of our own free will. Well, it's not really free will if we're also told if we don't love God and praise him, we'll burn in eternal damnation is it? It's like holding a knife to someone's throat and saying "Tell me you love me or I'll kill you!" What do you think that person's gonna say!

If their is a God, then he has some severe issues with how he relates to people, if he had a therapy session, he'd be diagnosed as being schizophrenic in about 2 minutes.

It sounds like you're a really mixed up person...
We cannot talk to God becuase we are imperfect, yes. This is a world of sin, we cannot talk to God directly becuase of it.
Jesus harbored all of our sins, therefore being the gateway in talking to God. It is through him we are justified to God.
Its nothing like holding a knife to someone's throat. God created everything, and he has every right to ask whatever he wants, and how he wants it. He gave us 10 commandments to live by and also gave us free will. And he laid down the consequenses if people do not abide by the rules. pretty simple and makes total sense.

reply to post by Vimes


Men are good, Men are evil.. What God is? We do not know.
We do not know the hand of God.. We do not know Gods will..

However many men will claim they speak to God, or know of Gods will.
When its simply mens desire to control, and manipulate us all!!

We can not claim what God is.. Or if God is good or evil.. We are humans and do not know these things.

Those who claim they know.. Are full of it..

my two cents :
religion is full of crap and is missused all the time for the suffering of mankind take a look at any time period and u will see that it was used as an excuse to kill millions of people.

god does exist in one way or another does exist and i dont believe that you should live your life for god instead you should live your life.

those waiting for the end to come well they will be waiting for a long time. to me god is not the good being they make him out to be he just is and this existence is probably just a drean to him.

Originally posted by Snap
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
-Epicurus

is he able but has a reason not to?
then we should find out why.

Originally posted by zysin5
Those who claim they know.. Are full of it..

full of holy spirit? yes i agree thats a possibility

sorry cheezy joke i know... g night folks

I have read these posts concerning the concept of "God". Here's something to chew on...Creation in it's self is a mystery, therefore so is the concept of "God".

You say we are "only human" and yet, if one were to toy with the idea that we are created in the image of God...then why not consider ourselves god's as well???

As above so below...we are all gods and anything that "goes wrong" or right, for that matter, man and man alone is responsible for it.

No outside entity, but YOU and you alone create your own reality and what you want or do not want it to be. Blaming is nothing more than shirking responsibility for what has been created by all who inhabit this earthly plane.

regards,

~holly



[edit on 12-5-2008 by Holly N.R.A.]

Originally posted by prevenge
i think it's us.. as an integral PART of that "breathing bang" or "prime creation" .. to realize that we ARE a PART of that.. and in this locale.. we are (publicly knowingly) the highest form of intelligence here right now... so let's realize this... and BE that.

I agree with the above view 100%.

God (Creator) is not some seperate entity controlling the past, present and future universe from a single point in space and time. The Creator is not male or female either, but both at once. In fact, the Creator is the creation itself as implicated in the words "I am that I am".

As beings became aware of themselves and others, as the story of Adam and Eve evoke, they then are faced with choice. It is at that point when morality comes into play. No longer relying only to base instinct, a 'higher awareness' such as humankind has achieved, prompts us to suss out the impact to others which our actions may have.

To the lion, a lamb is a meal only and no morality comes into play. A hungry human, on the other hand, will consider the situation more carefully prior to killing and devouring such a tasty wee snack.

To whom does the lamb belong?
Are they nearby so that I can properly ask for this meal?
Are they watching?
What are the possibilities that I may be caught wrongfully lamb-napping if I roast the little beast over a fire?
what are the consequences if I do get caught?
Is the risk worth it?

That is the Creator working within each of us. From the seemingly mindless experience of being a plant to the cruel instincts displayed in nature and then onwards and upwards to the morality which often shows itself in the 'higher' forms of life such as whales, monkeys and ultimately mankind... this is all the Creator experiencing creation.

God knows everything and what is going to happen.

a passage from the quaran will explain this:

According to the Quranic passage Moses meets the "servant of God" or Al-Khidr at the junction of the two seas and asks to acompany him in order to gain knowledge from him. Al Khidr performs his first action, after he and Moses board a ship, Al-Khidr remains behind and damages the ship, rendering it unsafe for use. Forgetting his oath to follow quietly, Moses criticizes this behavior and Al-Khidr replies that criticizing him is a violation of the oath. Moses, eager to learn from the wise man, apologizes. The second act was Al-Khidr murdering a child. Moses, in anger, violates his oath again. As with the sabotage of the ship, they argue and Moses apologizes for violating his oath. This time Al-Khidr warns Moses that he has only one chance left as his patience is wearing thin. The last act was Al-Khidr restoring a damaged wall in a village where they were denied hospitality. Amazed by his companion's reaction to the ill-treatment they received in the village, Moses violates his oath for the third and last time.

Al-Khidr exposed to Moses two facts simultaneously, first that Moses' knowledge is limited and that many acts which seem to be evil, malicious or somber hide some of God's mercy and design. As they are about to part ways, Al-Khidr explains that even though the ship's owners will not be pleased with their damaged ship, the blessing will manifest itself when the local king confiscates all ships fit to wage war, leaving behind the damaged ships. Many argue that this occurrence is a form of passive resistance quite advanced to be mentioned in an ancient sacred text.

The murder of the child would sadden his parents at first glance, yet is a blessing in disguise as God would replace the child with better in purity, affection and obedience. unlike the murdered child, who Al-Khidr foretold was about to make his pious parents suffer. As for the restoration of the wall without recompense, Al-Khidr explained that underneath the wall was a treasure belonging to two hapless orphans whose father was a righteous man. As God's envoy, Al-Khidr restored the wall, showing God's kindness by rewarding the piety of the orphans' father.

Originally posted by beach2197

Originally posted by Alethia
God is a contradiction in terms to me. He is supposedly the perfect being, and hence we needed Jesus Christ to communicate with him, because we can't communicate with God directly because we are imperfect. How/why can a perfect being not communicate with an imperfect one? If I'm perfect, doesn't that mean I'm so perfect at communicating I can communicate with anyone, good or bad? If I'm perfect, I can't be corrupted by talking to an imperfect person, because I'm already perfect?

If we have to communicate through Jesus Christ, does that mean Jesus Christ isn't perfect, which is why we could talk to him? The son of the perfect being isn't perfect himself?

Also, if God is perfect, and made us in his image, then why are we imperfect? We're supposed to be like him right? Why would a perfect being make an imperfect being?

I also love how we are told we have to choose God. God wants us to love him of our own free will. Well, it's not really free will if we're also told if we don't love God and praise him, we'll burn in eternal damnation is it? It's like holding a knife to someone's throat and saying "Tell me you love me or I'll kill you!" What do you think that person's gonna say!

If their is a God, then he has some severe issues with how he relates to people, if he had a therapy session, he'd be diagnosed as being schizophrenic in about 2 minutes.

It sounds like you're a really mixed up person...
We cannot talk to God becuase we are imperfect, yes. This is a world of sin, we cannot talk to God directly becuase of it.
Jesus harbored all of our sins, therefore being the gateway in talking to God. It is through him we are justified to God.
Its nothing like holding a knife to someone's throat. God created everything, and he has every right to ask whatever he wants, and how he wants it. He gave us 10 commandments to live by and also gave us free will. And he laid down the consequenses if people do not abide by the rules. pretty simple and makes total sense.

You don't know me, and I don't know you, to me, you're a mixed up person.

You say God gave us free will. Well, why give us free will if we can't choose to use it? Why give us a code of 10 commandments, and then the free will to not listen to it whatsoever, if God is so intent on having things his way?

And I love this statement "God created everything, and he has every right to ask whatever he wants, and how he wants it." Dictator anyone?

You are mixed up, and religion is mixed up. The more people try to explain God and his ways, the more mixed up in their story they become, the more contradictory it becomes, and then they try and kill it with "Well, God works in mysterious ways......". Pretty simple and makes total sense.

God gave us free will.

However god knows what we will do.

^ in that statement, "however" is a disqualifying statement. Just wanted to point that out, that even your unconscious knows that you can't have it both ways - either it's free will, or it's not. Having a "plan" or a "path" predetermined (aka known by god) is not the same as having free will.

Continue on...

Darkness is the absence of light, cold is the absence of heat, evil is the absence of good. We were created with free will to either choose God or reject Him. This is why, in the garden, God warned Adam and Eve that they would die if they ate the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Up to that point, they were clothed in a robe of righteousness. After eating, they realized they were naked. They had lost their righteousness. At that point their bodies began to die. Disobedience is sin.

God could have left the tree out of the garden, but what good would free will do us if we don’t have the opportunity to exercise it? We have free will however, each and all of our choices have consequences. If we choose God, we choose eternal life. If we reject God, we reject eternal life.

Is God moral? Each person has their own idea of what defines morality. Who’s idea of morality do we use?

Originally posted by boredguy
God gave us free will.

However god knows what we will do.

Originally posted by scientist
^ in that statement, "however" is a disqualifying statement. Just wanted to point that out, that even your unconscious knows that you can't have it both ways - either it's free will, or it's not. Having a "plan" or a "path" predetermined (aka known by god) is not the same as having free will.

Continue on...

How does knowing what someone will do predetermine their path? If I place a cookie in front of a three year old and tell him not to touch it, do you think he will? Did you just take away his free will by determining the outcome?

I know I'm mixed up. The thing is, I'm not narrow minded....The thing you FAIL to understand, is that you CAN use free will, good or bad, thats why they call it FREE WILL. Use it however the heck you want to, I could care less. There are laws in place, choose to adhere to them, or not. Its up to you. Thats called free will.
And your dictator statement is a lazy, cop-out, easy-way-out statement from a person that simply chooses not to understand.
And the only God I know how to explain is the God that is in the Bible. I don't know him, he's not my uncle. I simply state what is in the Bible, what he says, and what the consequences are.
Not sure if this makes sense to you, but I triend to simplify as best as possible......

[edit on 12-5-2008 by beach2197]

reply to post by Vimes

This is what im not understanding.We can belive that there are beings in the universe that are more advance,smarter and powerful than us.We can belive that aliens created us.We can belive that there were aliens that came to earth and taught us all we know.However the idea of a supreme
being that is way beyond our understanding seems crazy to some.God is real can i give you evidence...not really.Its called faith.Some have faith in aliens and ufos with no evidence.So whats the difference?Ive had my doubts at time about both issues.Im one of those nuts that belive in both

reply to post by Tricky63


Yea, I actually believe in both too. No way in hell we're the only ones here in the U. NO WAY.
However, I do believe God created everything, even the other alien races. They just haven't f'ed up like we have

Originally posted by beach2197

I know I'm mixed up. The thing is, I'm not narrow minded....The thing you FAIL to understand, is that you CAN use free will, good or bad, thats why they call it FREE WILL. Use it however the heck you want to, I could care less. There are laws in place, choose to adhere to them, or not. Its up to you. Thats called free will.
And your dictator statement is a lazy, cop-out, easy-way-out statement from a person that simply chooses not to understand.
And the only God I know how to explain is the God that is in the Bible. I don't know him, he's not my uncle. I simply state what is in the Bible, what he says, and what the consequences are.
Not sure if this makes sense to you, but I triend to simplify as best as possible......

[edit on 12-5-2008 by beach2197]

Is it me who fails to understand, or you? You seem intent on being right, and everyone else wrong. That is narrow minded to me.

reply to post by Alethia


Not trying to be right at all. i'm just trying to convey what has already been written about

Originally posted by Alethia

Originally posted by mrwupy
Morality does not apply to God, or to the animals or anything other than man. Morality is a standard mankind sets up so that we can all get along. Morality only applies to mankind.

Could the 10 commandments, sent down to Moses by God himself, not be regarded as a moral code man was supposed to live by?

you're getting lost in legend and edited literature myth.

" Yaweh Elohim " gave to Moses the Commandments.
that name.. was REPLACED with the title "God"

thiiiis. is FACT.

Yaweh being a "being's" name.
"Elohim" meaning those that came from the sky.

so it was Yaweh.. the grandest of the Elohim .. that gave Moses the Commandments.

confusing the "beings" that were teching man in the beginning.. with the BIG BANG of conciousness and ALL THAT IS
is a DREADFUL thing.

it's rediculous actually and causes us alot of freaking wasted time arguing about it.


the "source" of "all".. through love.. imploded... in an attempt to explore itself and create new (unbiased through freewill) .. new good or bad experiences.. to learn of itself.

then we were genetically made the way we are by ancient beings.

not the all powerful conciousness that is ALL CONSCIOUSNESS SIMULTANEOUSLY EXISTING AT ONCE.

why cannot people THINK beyond what they're TOLD?!!!









get hip to the fun facts.













-

[edit on 15-5-2008 by prevenge]

reply to post by prevenge


God had MANY titles.
Bible names and titles of God.

Also , Hebrew has a way to connotate MANY meanings in a word;

The Redemptive Names of God in Psalm 23

1. The Lord is my shepherd (Jehovah-Raha) ; I shall not want (Jehovah-Jireh).
2. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures (Jehovah-Shalom): he leadeth me beside the still waters (Jehovah-Raha).
3. He restoreth my soul (Jehovah-Rapha): he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake (Jehovah-Tsidkenu).
4. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil (Jehovah-Nissi) : for thou art with me (Jehovah Shammah) ; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me (Jehovah Raha).
5. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies (Jehovah Nissi): thou anointest my head with oil (Jehovah-Rapha); my cup runneth over (Jehovah-Jireh).
6. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.

Jesus does too.
wiki;

The New Testament uses many titles to refer to Jesus, including: God, Prophet, Lord, Son of man, Son of God, Lamb of God, King of the Jews, King of Kings, Rabbi and Emmanuel. Many Christians understand these titles as attesting to Jesus' divinity.

reply to post by Vimes


You have to understand that the goodness of the bible god is as limited as the goodness of the human beings capacity to understand their own interpretations of morality.

When the ancient humans in the bible decided to created a link between human kind and God they turned God into a human being, with superpowers.

Funny but the morals of the God of the bible is actually the morals set by us human kind that were not created in his image but we created him our image.





[edit on 15-5-2008 by marg6043]