Hard Numbers: The Economy Is Much Worse Than You Know!

reply to post by Stumpy1

Well you could stop paying for internet service and then maybe eat 2x a day. Or sell your computer and use the money for food.

Or maybe they should just slit their wrists and just be done with it all right now?

So much for "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" eh?

reply to post by Stumpy1


You do realize that we operate within the parameters of a fatally flawed economic model don't you?

Google Video Link

Which means that the economy will indeed collapse, it's just a question of when.


[edit on 5/11/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by kattraxx

And Jack, you could just move, right? You know, like Nancy Reagan said: Just buy a house.

Then of course there is Bush Momma who said...

"Almost everyone I have talked to says, `We're going to move to Houston.' What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all
want to stay in Texas... And so many of the people in the
arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so
this, this is working very well for them."

(Added bold)

Maybe I should head on down to the Bush ranch and see if they've got some work for me.

My wife and I make about 70,000 a year combined. We rent a 2br 2ba townhouse and have a dog. The townhouse runs us 850 a month and that is cheap in this market. We signed our lease 2.5 years ago and I made them include a clause that they could not increase the rent on us for any reason. Most homes now are renting for 1000-1200 for 2-3br. We go to the grocery store and it's 100 bucks for 1 week of food eating barbecued chicken, ground beef and pasta. We just finished a bankrupcy for her debt from college (another financial trap) and now we can finally start saving money. I for one don't want to save money. I want to buy food I can store and prepare for the worst. I also want to buy a place in the woods outright so we can just pack up and leave when the poo hits the fan. This economy is going to fall and 70,000 a year for 2 people and a dog won't get you a studio apartment. I really don't want to be around for it.

The single largest problem is priority in this country. Everyone wants it all now. Instead of working and scraping to get some money put away, everyone gets credit and puts themselves in debt. Just buy everything with cash. We should eliminate money and make people deal in ears. Then people will REALLY appreciate what they have. When you can only buy and sell with ears.

[edit on 11-5-2008 by Ragnarok691]

Originally posted by LostNemesis
reply to post by BlasteR

 

All of your post is very insightful. Thought provoking... Thank you for that.

We are in some uncertain times. I wonder if anyone though of it this way though....


On another forum I frequent, many people are saying that if gas goes up much more, they cannot afford to get to work anymore.

So then, we've got people who need their job, to pay rent, bills, feed family, etc... But if they take money from their bills or groceries, to put gas in their car... to get to work... Their power gets shut off, or they cannot feed their family, or..
Well, what is going to happen? Really, I don't think ANYONE but Bush has a positive outlook on gas prices at this point.

But I was going to say, thinking of it this way.. Once these people can no longer get to work, or get laid off from work, they will no longer be buying gas, yeah? So demand will go down. Which means, prices for those left with jobs, vehicles, homes, etc, will go DOWN for gas!

Right? Am I understanding economics correctly?? Maybe prices WILL go down?

That's one way of looking at it LOL. Eventually people will only afford X amount of gas within X days (because people will be forced to budget). With oil prices continuing to rise that will mean that that X amount of gas will eventually not be enough to get to work at all!

I think what we will see before that is the effects of the global food shortage (although not exactly in the U.S. yet). Our economy is prosperous enough that it wouldn't collapse right away. First the global economic situation would continue to degrade and foreign economies would begin failing (directly affecting the U.S. economy). Which would also, technically, lower demand and potentially lower gas prices. But even then, With the global economy crippled and what's left of the U.S. economy screwed, how would lower fuel prices matter at that point?

It's like saying "millions of people will die but at least the price of oil will go down because the demand will fall". How is that somehow a good situation? What will be left of our economy then at all?

There are still economic measures that could be taken to prepare our economy for the worst case scenario. The problem is noone's brave enough to do anything about it (Or to at least suggest it).

-ChriS

reply to post by Stumpy1


acthualy weve done the math. sience we have a all in one deal we get cable phone and internet and save some where near 200 a month by doing so. the internet is my only entertainment expense plus its how i keep in touch with my family who live over 500 miles away. considering i cant work, and get so paranoid when i leave the house that i dont like to leave so to fill my time through out the day with something enjoyable and productive. you try having nothing to do all day every day with no means of entertainig your self or feeling productive. ive done it and it gets very depressing. you add that to my paranoid skitzoaffective disorder along with my disassociative disorder and it leads to me being very unhappy and unstable.

The repubs built an economy out of cards, and now it is about to collapse. These things were predicted by many several years ago, and now it is all starting to happen. The thing is, the easy to get high quality crude oil is running out, and we will never see cheap gasoline again. U.S. borrowing has kept the world economy from collapsing so far, but debt is never sustainable as an economic support system and now we have essentially reached the end of that rope. Our economy is in bad shape, and it is going to get worse. All this comes just as the boomer generation is starting to retire. What do you think they are going to get back on their 401k plans?

But, I see a silver lining in the clouds. Rising oil prices means that alternative energy sources will be able to compete with big oil. This could mean the end of the global energy hegemony, and I suspect it will. Sugar produced ethanol, wind mill power generation, bio diesel and other alternatives are all much more labor intensive than drilling for oil and oil refinement. This means more of our energy costs will go to create jobs. Jobs create demand, and though we might be in for a rough transition period, overall, this will be a good thing.

The boomer retirement means a lot of jobs are going to be opening up, and job growth demand will increase.

In addition, with modern technology, it is now possible to mass manufacture goods in a small warehouse or even ones garage. Add in the internet, which can provide global marketing for small businesses, and you have the ingredients for a return of the cottage industry. I know, many of you will think I am crazy for saying such a thing, which I have been saying for years now, but in the next fifty years or so, that is exactly what I think is going to happen. The industrial age created these mammoth corporate entities that have dominated ever since, but that is mainly because mass manufacturing and marketing have always required tremendous resources leading to the creation of these giant corporations, but that is the past. In the future, a skilled person can utilize modern technology to do things like mass manufacture and global market with very limited resources.

Without the huge bureaucracies that rule giant corporate entities, individual entrepreneurs will be able to out maneuver the dinosaurs of the industrial age. This means that rather than an unrealistic portion of market profits going to a small percentage of the population who control the corporations and the markets, the money will be going straight to the middle class.

This isn't going to happen right away, giant corporate entities are going to do everything in their power to stop this from developing, but eventually they will fail to hold back progress. The answer is to open peoples eyes to these possibilities, because the corporations will do everything they can to hide this reality.

In the mean time, as the price of gasoline continues to rise, eventually people are going to either turn to highly efficient hybrids, and the technology is already available, or demand changes in our transportation structure, which I think is inevitable anyway. Trains will be needed to ship goods, as fuel prices make trucking too expensive to remain economically feasible. Once again, changes in technology and infrastructure will require hiring people to build these things.

My opinion is that the reason massive debt has been so greatly encouraged is to prevent the masses from raising the capital to change our infrastructure, and to reduce the ability of average people to build independent small businesses with mass production capability. In my opinion the powers that be are trying to box in the middle class to prevent this rise of the cottage industry. It is also my opinion that the powers that be will fail to stop progress.

Anyone who is struggling, I suggest you learn to build web sites. Establish yourself in the internet community, and find some service you can provide on the internet to gain some income. I think there are a great many ways to make money on the internet that have yet to be exploited. One of the big fields that I think will open up is internet research. The big internet search engines, in my opinion, are getting to be more and more about control over whose website is visible on the internet. People who provide internet search services will be able to use sites like this to discover information that the search engines can not and or will not find. There are vast possibilities out there.

Personally, I have to be suspicious of anyone who suggests people give up their internet access. This push to invest your money for independence, but give up your internet service sounds pretty fishy to me.

reply to post by iiinvision


Negative or positive minds don't matter. What about a single woman who has to take care of 4 kids? She can't go back to school because she needs a job to keep her house and feed her kids. Unfortunately she is not as lucky as a guy born with rich parents. Mindsets matter, but you must also take into consideration on the funds they have. It takes one good idea to make money or money to make money. You can be the most negative guy and win the lotto. The laws of attraction do not work. It is up to you and your resources to make the money.

We lived nearly 8 years without electricity in the hot desert. Summers were almost unbearable with temperatures soaring to 120 degrees. It wasn't easy by no means, but we survived. Finally electricity came here in 1999. Most will never realize the luxury of electricity, until you lose it.
Still I forget to turn on lights and never let the water run needlessly. Even between rinsing dishes or brushing my teeth.

Our refrigeration was limited so canned foods were a must. Although top ramen is cheap that stuff will kill you if you use the little flavor packets!
It's full of Salt & MSG's. I suggest not using the flavor packets at all. Cook just the noodles. It's dull, but you'll live longer. If you buy canned tuna get the one with the oil. You can use it for cooking if worse comes to worse. Stop driving around needlessly. Don't give those Money Grabbing Gas Moguls anymore than you absolutely have too!

I cut coupons and download them free off the computer. On a normal shopping trip we save up to $50.00. Every dime counts nowdays and it's only going to get worse. Get 5-10 cents off gas per gallon using the stores card. If you smoke tabacco buy the big bags and roll your own. The little cigars are cheaper and you don't have to pay the high taxes. If you can buy canned foods in cases when it's on sale. Especially coffee if your're a coffee drinker. I just bought two Folger's for the price of one and there was no limit!

Grow your own vegetables and start yesterday! If we can do it out here in the desert you shouldn't have a problem. I'm thinking the rich want us to fold by increasing gas prices and food. We don't have to let them succeed! Remember "The Meek will Inherit the Earth", we just have to remain Strong.

You only have to look at the price of food to know you are being lied to.
The TV says cost of living went up 5%. The food bill went up 50%.

Which one is lieing?

I gotta support iiinvision here, who said that you can master money if you only know how it works. Granted, he explained the whole thing a little weird, so no wonder that people got upset. But what he was actually talking about was manifestation, i.e., the ability to turn your thoughts into physical reality.

That also works for money. I'm not making a case for becoming an Ebenezer Scrooge here, but iiinvision was right that money is nothing but energy, and as such it's neutral. You CAN manifest money, but the right mindset is imperative. For example, you have to get rid of the notion that "money is the root of all evil," that "money doesn't grow on trees," and such. You also have to let go of your notion of "not having enough," i.e., learn not to come from a mindset of lack. Then it just takes the right combination of thought, word, feeling and action to set the money engine in motion.

There are lots and lots of good books on this topic (e.g., "The Secret"), so I won't go into any more details here. I can only say that I had a phase in my life where I was dirt poor, but still managed to always manifest the money that I needed (unfortunately not one penny more ). Only in the last five years did I manage to get rid of my limiting beliefs about money, and all of a sudden the green started flowing. I'm by no means rich, but live a comfortable life, with always a little surplus money at the end of the month. Anyone can do it, so I hope you start today.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Things are just not as bad as you think.

Yeah, things are tough. Tougher for some more than others.

But its not over..Far from OVER. The United States will rebound, as we already beginning to.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

My suspicion is that the middle and lower classes are being soaked by the wealthy.

Defense industry, banking, energy, food, etc are closing down their latest ponzi schemes and asking the uninformed to bail them out.

However, I will say that I am concerned that this could go out of control if fear sets in on a massive scale. It appears at times the game is getting out of the control of the players.

One thing I know is that the US can feed, clothe and shelter our citizens. We have the natural resources and the know how if it comes to that. If and when a panic comes we need to keep our heads and help each other.

My hope for the future is that we will achieve complete and total sustainable energy independance within the next decade. It is a hope...we have the technology now...but the big boys want to squeeze every last cent out of the oil.

That and get rid of NAFTA and GATT and restore tariffs.

[edit on 11-5-2008 by Leo Strauss]

reply to post by traderonwallst


You mean the stock market is rebounding but the stock market does not represent the actual economy it is an indicator. It does not mean its not right. If you think that we can come within inches of total financial collapse and then 2 months later rebound like nothing has happened I think you mistaken. This is a bear market rally. I hope your shorting stocks because were going right back down ...sorry to break the news.

reply to post by traderonwallst


I'm sorry, but I have to consider the Source when I see your posts. Your reason for being is tied to The Market. Therefore, I would never expect you to give an unbiased perspective.

Please don't take it wrong. I'm simply saying that I would be of the same mindset if I were in your shoes. I don't want to lose my job, and I'm sure you feel the same. I would prolly defend just about anything if my lively hood was tied to it.

Originally posted by iiinvision
okay, I told people so...in my life I happened to meet a few masters of money. The Rothschild family, are the true money masters of this world. They have owned it for hundreds of years. But they play by a certain set of rules, and once you learn these rules, you can learn to MASTER MONEY. A lot of people have been socially programmed to believe that money is the root of all evil and blah blah blah.
The fact is money is simply energy and 10 percent of the richest people own 90 percent of the world. Whereas 90 percent of the people own less than 10 percent of the world.
As a spiritual person, I don't believe I truly own my properties. They are merely atoms in the universe...its absurd to me to think that I can own atoms. But anyway that doesn't stop me from beating them at there own game.
What it will take is not bloody revolution, but merely a revolution of the mind.
Think about it...
If you were to learn how to manage risk and invest the right way, and truly learn how to master money, with the same effort you put into working for someone else, you would be able to amass wealth.
Wealth doesn't necessarily equal greed, but most people don't understand how the mind works. The richest people do and they exploit that fact. The evidence?
Look around you..
how long could you survive without a paycheck?
A year?
A month?
Two weeks?

Its time people wake up to the truth about money. The faster you do it the quicker their pyramid will topple. They fear this...
we need to learn to play by their rules and beat the elite at their own game.
Screw your negative energy and get with the program...

easy business ideas

look around you what do people need, or more importantly..what are they about to need. Figure this out and you golden..dont focus on money, focus on making change on a large to medium scale.

large apartment complexes(i.e. 2.5 mill-15 mill) are easier to purchase than your average single family home. Don't believe me? Then you haven't done your homework.

In any market, there is a way to make money. Right now you could make a killing investing in china. Just don't go along with other people's plans if you haven't done your homework.

The second most important part of business, but not less important, is DUE DILIGENCE!
The reason 90 percent of small businesses fail, is that people don't do their due diligence. What is due diligence? Simply doing all of your homework.

Its easier, and more rewarding, IMO, to work for yourself than for someone else.
And a lot of the people I see on here have brilliant minds!
Simply apply your mind power from becoming free from being a wage slave!

Play by their rules...then we could all pool in and create a counter surveillance agency for big bro...
think about your options, create a vision, and make it reality...
its not magic, but then again it is

iiinvision, the richest person on ATS? or just blah blah blaher? I don't know.
Anyways, the thing that gets me about this thread is all the people crying foul of the economy because they're poor. I'm not judging here, people; BUT, what delusional fantasy lands are you all living in? Just because you're poor does not mean, necessarily, that the economy is a failure. Maybe you're the failure?...I'm not rich. I'm 23 and make $9 an hour. I'm going to school and plan to be better off in the future than now. I work with people that are scraping by, and boy do they work. And I know people that are filthy rich. Rich people aren't sitting around talking about how good the economy is and ascribing their success to that, but many poor people (though by no means all) are blaming their lack of plenty to the economy. What came first, the chicken or the egg? The poverty or the excuse making? No doubt, many millions of people (worldwide) are born into lousy lots in life. But if you're one of the LUCKY few to be born into a western nation like America and you have an able body and mind, then I'd say your economic failures are AT LEAST as much about your own failures (bad choices) as the economy's (bad governance).

Listen, don;t think I hype the market because of what I do. I am not a trader n wall street any more. Have not been for a long time and am not hyping stocks.

I made a killing last year shorting the market. I have made very good money over the past month and a half being long. I no long trade for a living, but have never gave up the love of the markets. I now work in Risk Management for an International Corporation (Japanese, but will not give out any names). Risk Management is far more interesting as you ahve to to look at everything from every angle and through the fact that we are an international Company. I have to monitor risk in 42 different countries, monitor political risk in about 20 "watch" countries and get a handle on interest rate risk and currency risk.

Think what you want about me an my posts, I have never been anything but honest on here. I have mentioned particular stocks on here in the past and got in alot of trouble for that. I have helped members on here through U2U's, never promoting stocks but have answered questions for those interested in asking.

As for the stock market, as someone else on here put it....Rule #1...ITs not the economy. It is an indicator, but interesting enough it BOTH and leading and lagging indicator. It lags as we enter recession and leads as we enter a bull market. Yes, I too believe it is a bear market rally, but I believe we have seen the bottom in the Bear market. We might re-test the lows, and that is a big might, but it could happen. I am not as long as I was a month ago, but currently only have 4 short positions, all held from last August. 2 are bond insurers, I will not mention thier names.

Take out of what I say on here with a grain of salt, is it is MY OPINION. It has worked for me.

Good night everyone....going to bed.

[edit on 11-5-2008 by traderonwallst]

reply to post by Threadfall


well like you said "of able mind and body" were not all so lucky. also when your income dosent increase but the price of a normal months worth of food goes up 25 to 50 % depending on where you are personaly here as far as i can tell its up about 40 % then yes the economy which includes the price of standerd goods and services is bad.

reply to post by kattraxx


And I am tired of hearing people bitch about situations in which they can do something..no matter how small that will better their current problem, way to champion laziness my friend! To bad it is the same mindset that so many others have, and still they are in the same situation and they still piss and moan, we all have choices in life, while some may be blind to that fact there are a great many that are not. yes it is easy to pick up and move, if you want to, it is far easier to stay where you are and complain about how bad life is, people have to want to make a change in life, most just don't and are more than content to blame everyone around them and then make themselves a burden on those of us whose tax money supports them. I commend you being a hero for the lazy and complacent.

reply to post by jackinthebox


So much for sitting on old ideals, If I was only eating 1x a day the things to go would be the things I can live without, Internet, computer, cell phone, cable ect... no big deal, I have lived without those things before and could easily do it again. If I had a choice between the internet and 3 boxes of ramen so I could eat more frequently I would choose the ramen hands down every time.