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Hard Numbers: The Economy Is Much Worse Than You Know!

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posted on May, 10 2008 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Oil is trading at around $120 per barrel. Even more pathetic!



And $20 of that (per barrel) is just since January. If this price-rise continues current fuel prices will double in 2 years (And that's even if the current situation doesn't get worse than it already is).

All the economists are saying things like "it's going to take 4 years or so for gas to get to $7 a gallon". The NY Times being one example..Based on what is going on currently they must be living in a delusional dream world.
It doesn't help that all the projections are different and subject to interpretation of historical data and the geopolitical situation (which only degrades day by day).. Then you have the food crisis.

I'm extremely concerned about this. I talked about this in my thread about gas prices here and have some interesting links:
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

-ChriS

[edit on 10-5-2008 by BlasteR]




posted on May, 10 2008 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by iiinvision
 


Brilliant disinfo there.

There is no such thing as beating them at their own game. If you play, it's right into their hands.

All your little rant has told anyone is that "they can do it" in hopes of squeezing out the last few drops of their lifeblood before the system totally collapses.

You are aware that our current economic system is terminally flawed I'm sure. So don't try to tell me that doing our homework is going to make a damn bit of difference. None of us down here are making it to the top. Hell, I bet Bill Gates get mushed when it all goes down, since he is just "new money" anyway.

The only thing you have told us is to go invest, with a subtle stoke and stroke of our ego telling us "Its time people wake up to the truth about money. The faster you do it the quicker their pyramid will topple. They fear this..."

Then you turn around and tell us, "Screw your negative energy and get with the program..."

No thanks, the program has been shoved down our throats and up our asses long enough.





[edit on 5/11/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on May, 10 2008 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by proteus33
 



...that 1 in 8 is below poverty might be right in his area but where i live...


Well, to be fair, I was quoting a three year old source. So I am sure that it is worse now. I would be interested to see how much worse, without "fixed" figures.

Here is my source...





[edit on 5/10/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on May, 10 2008 @ 10:53 PM
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Yeah you know it must be worse with the astronomical interest on the debt. We are deeply deeply screwed. I for one am getting my survival gear together.



posted on May, 10 2008 @ 11:08 PM
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The thing that pisses me off is that "comfortable" Americans living in large suburban homes tend to believe the "we're in a brief recession" crap. They really put undue trust in the stability of this country. This isn't looking good.



posted on May, 10 2008 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 


That video link is giving an error. Curious to see it, and stuff.

Try again?


[edit on 10-5-2008 by LostNemesis]



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by LostNemesis
 


Sorry 'bout that. Should be running now.



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by iiinvision
 


Brilliant disinfo there.

There is no such thing as beating them at their own game. If you play, it's right into their hands.

All your little rant has told anyone is that "they can do it" in hopes of squeezing out the last few drops of their lifeblood before the system totally collapses.

You are aware that our current economic system is terminally flawed I'm sure. So don't try to tell me that doing our homework is going to make a damn bit of difference. None of us down here are making it to the top. Hell, I bet Bill Gates get mushed when it all goes down, since he is just "new money" anyway.





your own negative mindset is what limits you...you fail to see the bigger picture, but I rest assured you will see it someday.
I happen to know what works and what doesn't. I grew up poor, I tried selling drugs and that didn't work out for me. I know buy and sell apartment complexes. Its very easy, but you have to overcome your limiting beliefs.
You are simply a chicken little, and your attempt to accuse me of disinformation is an act of disinformation to everyone else who is easily led by naysayers and skeptics.
You apparently have no power over your own life and apparently live on the grid. You don't realize the power that you have within yourself, and how it can affect the material world...
I really don't care about your opinions because you haven't demonstrated any truth to me, as it is in my reality.
You may call my reality a sham, or you may call me crazy. But I live my life free and to the fullest everyday. I am totally elated by the mysteries of this universe that I have witnessed first hand.

Im not suggesting everyone become extremely wealthy...Im saying you learn to master money. All your life you have been a slave to money. All it takes is knowledge and experience to master it.

If we unite, not in some organization, but unite as an truly educated, and truly aware majority we will stay under control.

unity of the people is all that stands in their way and is what they are really scared of. Hence the division that is ripe in not only this country, but the entire world.
One good thing for you to do would be to read my signature...

have a wonderful day bro
Sometimes Im just as scared as you..



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 12:09 AM
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and I might add that you seeing, in your minds eye, the collapse/depression/sitX etc, only gives more power to its manifestation.
They created this division and you can be damn sure they know whats up with people who read these types of websites. They know more about you than you know about them.
But don't let them rob you of your energy...



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by LostNemesis
 


My research shows that one in eight Americans are living below the poverty line. For a single person such as myself, that is less than about ten grand per year. I can't even pay rent with that, much less have any other money for survival. And on top of that, someone making that little still has to pay income tax!

I made about twice the official poverty rate, and still wound up homeless last year. And that was not due to irresponsibility. For example, I never turned on more than one light at a time, and kept my thermostat glued to 55 degrees all Winter. (I would have turned it off if it hadn't been for the lease contract.)

So by that measure, I would say that in all practicality, half of Americans are poor. Then on top of that, you have to factor in all of the people who have not yet been pushed into the abyss, and are still surviving on a terminal credit line.


[edit on 5/10/0808 by jackinthebox]


Actually someone withing the poverty limit would pay between 0 and 3% income tax. Either try being poor for real or read up on the tax codes. In addition I think no one is capable of giving a true analysis of how many American's are actually poor given the skewed numbers we have to calculated such a thing. However I do agree that Americans are not responsible with their credit, and given recent fuel prices and inflation this has nly made matters worse.

Just because you can borrow it, doesn't mean you should. Excellent topic, thoroughly glad I was able to read such an article.



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by JediK
The thing that pisses me off is that "comfortable" Americans living in large suburban homes tend to believe the "we're in a brief recession" crap. They really put undue trust in the stability of this country. This isn't looking good.


I partially agree, many of my colleagues are of the surburbanite variety, and most don't really care as long as they get their own. It's not they they think that we are in a brief recession, it's just they don't care as long as they get what they want. But then again that is just the people I know. Good post.



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


I am new to doing this so bare with me.

I work in the oil and gas industry here in the united states. THe price of oil is going to spiral out of control. Gas per gallon will increase atleast a dollar every year.

The reason is the middle east is said to contain most of the oil in the world and it is easilly reached. Well the middle east has hit peak production and connot increase to meet world demands (thanks to china and india). So the arabs basically wont produce more oil so that the prioce goes up and they get alot wealthier. Politicians have alot of thier personal money invested in the oil in the middle east. So they get wealthier. All these are well known facts if you do your research.

If the US wanted to seek alternative places to get oil they should enter into negotiations with south america. There is more oil and gas in Mexico and South America then there ever was in the middle east. This is also a well known fact in the oil industry. Although it would take about 10 to 15 years to see the results if we were to start drilling down there today. There is little or no infrustructer. THis would solve our oil problems easily.

The United states also contains enough proven reserves to keep this country running for the next 50 years even at the rate of growth of consumption. But the governement wont go after all the oil due to the environmentalists. I can tell you personally that all drilling is very environmentally friendly. A land based rig puts less polluting oil in the soil in 1 year then most cars do in a month. Offshore rigs have less spillage in 1 year the an outboard motor puts in 1 day!!!! These are all strictly monitored.

Just thought you would find all this interesting. Seeing how oil drives our economy and is a huge contributing factor to the increase in price of all products. Including food!!! Food prices are going to increase at an alarming rate as you have already just seen the tip of the iceberg. I would start stocking up on food now.



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by Laozi
 



Actually someone withing the poverty limit would pay between 0 and 3% income tax. Either try being poor for real or read up on the tax codes.


Why don't you try reading period? You just confirmed what I said, "someone making that little still has to pay income tax!"

And what would you know about being poor?

[edit on 5/11/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 12:42 AM
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reply to post by Born_of_fire_0331
 


Welcome aboard! You have a good grip on the facts, but there are a few key points that you are missing about the oil industry and where the money is going. Check this out...


Revelations of Big Oil Chaplain Lindsey Williams...You Pay National Debt at the Pump



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by Laozi
 



Actually someone withing the poverty limit would pay between 0 and 3% income tax. Either try being poor for real or read up on the tax codes.


Why don't you try reading period. You just confirmed what I said, "someone making that little still has to pay income tax!"

And what would you know about being poor?


the 3 % was being generous and I spent some time homeless, spent quite a bit of my life poor. Joined the military out of high school, used my gi bill for an education then got a job, that's how I know about being poor. The average tax rate for the bottom 50% of earners in the US is < 3% (after deductions) www.taxfoundation.org...

Don't get upset when someone disagrees. I was merely point out that someone making less than 10k a year pays less than $300 in income tax a year if anything. When I made that low I paid none. However I still paid tax on things such as fuel and non necessities (Dr. Pepper/thunder).

I would be interested in seeing anyones return who actually paid taxes that made less than 10k a year. Not to say it isn't possible but I would certainly want to direct that person to a free tax service at their local library if they have one to prevent it next time.



edited for spelling error and clarification on 3%

[edit on 11-5-2008 by Laozi]

[edit on 11-5-2008 by Laozi]



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 01:36 AM
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Originally posted by Yosimitie Sam
Yeah you know it must be worse with the astronomical interest on the debt. We are deeply deeply screwed. I for one am getting my survival gear together.


I'm with you. I live in Alaska and I know that even if worse comes to worse, I can still keep my family alive regardless of what happens. Sending americans back to the stone age isn't exactly my idea of a good time, but since noone is taking any kind of action that could thwart or otherwise economically keep this country going that may very well be the outcome.

In 8 years President bush and his administration have done nothing but make countries hate us more and put us in a crappy economic situation. In 8 years nothing has been done to initiate something resembling an alternative energy movement. All this time wasted while we have and have had the technology and the means to make alternative energy a revolution in this country, yet somehow the Bush administration has better ideas?

The oil companies are making record profits while the rest of the world suffers and starves because of oil prices? Meanwhile gas prices are on the rise with no end in sight, demand is rising globally, geopolitically everything looks pretty grim, and we, as americans, have no way of knowing what our future holds.

Basic economics suggests that supply and demand creates ups and downs we all know that. But the factors that actually drive oil prices..
Mainly
1-The geopolitical situation
2-Supply vs demand

are only getting worse. It doesn't help that supply already can't keep up with demand while it is rising globally. I just fail to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Meanwhile you have people like Rush Limbaugh on his radio show saying things like "Trust me the prices will fall it's basic economics". But the truth is that these people fail to admit that oil prices will continue to soar because they are in denial and think this is some kind of liberal circus parade of doom and gloom. T

he global food crisis is only getting worse (it is now in it's infancy). They are already rationing certain imported food items at Sam's and Costco stores (rice that I know of, for example) right here in the U.S..

Just as I said in a different thread, even if the food crisis doesn't eventually directly effect us for years, a continuing climb in oil prices will destroy this economy (what's left of it). We don't even have these politicians admiting there's a problem. IMO, our dependance on foreign oil is a thing of the past. How about our dependance on oil altogether? Why isn't anyone talking about that these days? And why aren't our government officials and politicians taking action now to at least attempt to divert what could be an all out collapse of this american economy?

It may not happen tomorrow or next week, but if this situation continues to degrade we will be screwed. Like I said before we are already seeing

1-a global food crisis already beginning to affect some U.S. stores
2-people losing their homes and the overall degradation of the housing market.
3-Skyrocketing oil prices with no end in site
4-A war in Iraq that is costing millions daily (not to mention our military stretched thin)
5-No alternative to oil becoming viable at least enough to compete with the stinking rich oil companies (at least as a start) Therefore we will continue to depend on oil and gas.

In 4 months (since january alone) the price of oil has risen from $100 a barrel to $120. If that rate is sustained, our gas prices will double within 2 years it's simple math. If we see a skyrocket rate at which oil prices increase, we may see double oil prices before then. Meanwhile pretty much everyone depends on gas, not to mention what it costs to heat a home here in Alaska in winter. Some people are already living in their cars in winter to stay alive because they just can't afford the price of fuel-oil..

-ChriS

[edit on 11-5-2008 by BlasteR]



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 01:48 AM
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I used to volunteer at St Augustines soup kitchen. Sooner then later I will be a patron. Good times will come, and good times will go...but rock and roll....



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 


Howdy jack...!!! You live in New york right? You would do better to move..there are still many places where you can live a managable lifestyle on 20k a year.



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by krill
 


Well you could stop paying for internet service and then maybe eat 2x a day. Or sell your computer and use the money for food.



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by jpm1602
I used to volunteer at St Augustines soup kitchen. Sooner then later I will be a patron. Good times will come, and good times will go...but rock and roll....


Agreed, in the end you are only what you have done to help your fellow man or woman, besides in 10k years it won't matter what we have done. Thanks for volunteering please don't stop!




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