We definately should NOT be touching our strategic reserves.
We should have been drilling ANWR a long time ago.
Alaska wants it. Our national security demands it.
DRILL ANWR!!!
Should high gas prices cause Congress to open ANWAR?, page 1
privacy
reply posted on 10-5-2008 @ 02:42 PM by Solarskye
No we should not drill in Alaska or anywhere else. It's time to show the world that we don't need the oil and go green. We have electric cars. And
cheaper versions on the way. Tesla Motors We have to get away from oil and two guys in Australia has made that
possible with the Lutec 1000
I don't care about high prices in fuel right now and I've made adjustments for that by not driving around as much and not spending so much on other things. I want to see the technology availible at work and getting us off the dependant list for oil.
I don't care about high prices in fuel right now and I've made adjustments for that by not driving around as much and not spending so much on other things. I want to see the technology availible at work and getting us off the dependant list for oil.
reply posted on 10-5-2008 @ 03:02 PM by plumranch
reply to post by Solarskye
I don't care about high prices in fuel right now and I've made adjustments for that by not driving around as much and not spending so much on other things.
I understand. I like alternative energy soutions too but...
What do you say to the family just getting by who can't afford gas to drive to work? We've got the oil to solve the problem but we'd rather not use it because we might upset the environmentalists and liberals and we have an idea about free energy down in Australia I'd like to try?
reply posted on 10-5-2008 @ 04:24 PM by TheRedneck
reply to post by Solarskye
Yes, I'll agree, go 'green'. But so far we haven't been able to go 'green'. There's a very good reason for this: we have an infrastructure that's based on oil.
There are ways to make electricity and fuel from renewable sources, but these things take time. The ethanol used to go 'green' had an unexpected side effect: higher food costs. Biodiesel has the same side effect. Nuclear power has the problem of the radioactive waste. Electric cars (or hybrids) still require energy, just in a different form, and the batteries have to be changed out every 4-5 years at a repair cost in the thousands of dollars. Not everyone can afford that.
We also need a solution now, not in a few years. Just like no one demolishes their home before building a new one, so they are not homeless during the construction, why would we want to simply stop using oil to wait for a new solution? It's far better for everyone to develop the solution first, then switch to it.
You have pointed out a few possibilities for energy production, but so far they are not available to the general public. A new 100% non-polluting, zero-point energy production technology is a great goal, but don't stop and sit while you wait for it to happen. Not to mention, all the research has to be powered by something. My shop, where I am presently working on ideas to produce 'green' power has to have electricity to operate the machinery and equipment. You shut off the oil and you dry up any chance to replace it.
As far as ANWAR goes, yes we should be drilling in it, but not for the cost. We have plenty of oil now; there is no shortage. But we need to use our own resources wisely and that does not mean sitting on them while talking about how beautiful they are. Using our own oil means increased national security because the other countries won't have us by the short hairs economically.
It's the same kind of thinking that survivalists use: Produce it yourself whenever practical. I am growing a garden so I will have food even if beans go to $50 per pound. I am starting a chicken house so I will have meat should it become outrageously expensive. I am planning a geothermal system so I can be assured of heat and cool during the winter/summer months. I look for new power resources in order to prevent my power from disappearing. I couldn't care less if the neighbors think I'm loony or not; I care about reality and how my actions will impact my family. Maybe for once, that's what we need to be thinking of as a nation.
DRILL TILL ALASKA LOOKS LIKE A PIECE OF SWISS CHEESE! The polar bears can fish in the holes!
TheRedneck
No we should not drill in Alaska or anywhere else. It's time to show the world that we don't need the oil and go green. We have electric cars. And cheaper versions on the way. Tesla Motors We have to get away from oil and two guys in Australia has made that possible with the Lutec 1000
Yes, I'll agree, go 'green'. But so far we haven't been able to go 'green'. There's a very good reason for this: we have an infrastructure that's based on oil.
There are ways to make electricity and fuel from renewable sources, but these things take time. The ethanol used to go 'green' had an unexpected side effect: higher food costs. Biodiesel has the same side effect. Nuclear power has the problem of the radioactive waste. Electric cars (or hybrids) still require energy, just in a different form, and the batteries have to be changed out every 4-5 years at a repair cost in the thousands of dollars. Not everyone can afford that.
We also need a solution now, not in a few years. Just like no one demolishes their home before building a new one, so they are not homeless during the construction, why would we want to simply stop using oil to wait for a new solution? It's far better for everyone to develop the solution first, then switch to it.
You have pointed out a few possibilities for energy production, but so far they are not available to the general public. A new 100% non-polluting, zero-point energy production technology is a great goal, but don't stop and sit while you wait for it to happen. Not to mention, all the research has to be powered by something. My shop, where I am presently working on ideas to produce 'green' power has to have electricity to operate the machinery and equipment. You shut off the oil and you dry up any chance to replace it.
As far as ANWAR goes, yes we should be drilling in it, but not for the cost. We have plenty of oil now; there is no shortage. But we need to use our own resources wisely and that does not mean sitting on them while talking about how beautiful they are. Using our own oil means increased national security because the other countries won't have us by the short hairs economically.
It's the same kind of thinking that survivalists use: Produce it yourself whenever practical. I am growing a garden so I will have food even if beans go to $50 per pound. I am starting a chicken house so I will have meat should it become outrageously expensive. I am planning a geothermal system so I can be assured of heat and cool during the winter/summer months. I look for new power resources in order to prevent my power from disappearing. I couldn't care less if the neighbors think I'm loony or not; I care about reality and how my actions will impact my family. Maybe for once, that's what we need to be thinking of as a nation.
DRILL TILL ALASKA LOOKS LIKE A PIECE OF SWISS CHEESE! The polar bears can fish in the holes!
TheRedneck
reply posted on 10-5-2008 @ 05:04 PM by Solarskye
Originally posted by plumranch
reply to post by Solarskye
I don't care about high prices in fuel right now and I've made adjustments for that by not driving around as much and not spending so much on other things.
I understand. I like alternative energy soutions too but...
What do you say to the family just getting by who can't afford gas to drive to work? We've got the oil to solve the problem but we'd rather not use it because we might upset the environmentalists and liberals and we have an idea about free energy down in Australia I'd like to try?
There's really not much I can say but to deal with it and be smart about it. I'd love to go to the mountains but there's no way I'm going with this price of fuel. I know it has to be very hard on some who live paycheck to paycheck and don't have much to go on. Get rid of cable, git rid of the cell phone for awhile and try the best you can to say no to buying this or that.
Originally posted by TheRedNeck
"Yes, I'll agree, go 'green'. But so far we haven't been able to go 'green'. There's a very good reason for this: we have an infrastructure that's based on oil."
reply to post by TheRedneck
I know, that's the hard part. Even if the lutec 1000 and the Tesla cars come into the picture it will take years before everyone has that technology and we'll have to deal with the oil prices until then. I personally think the free market works and gas prices will go down just like other times in our history. It's just hard all around and I hope people use their brains and sacrifice a few things to pay for the higher prices. You TheRedNeck are doing the right things by preparing for the worse.
[edit on 5/10/2008 by Solarskye]
[edit on 5/10/2008 by Solarskye]
reply posted on 10-5-2008 @ 05:29 PM by TheRedneck
reply to post by Solarskye
I agree completely. The fuel crisis is temporary. It's a bubble, just like housing or gold. We have a large group of people in this country (and I assume around the world as well) that produce nothing but money, by buying and selling anything they can find to buy and sell.
It started way back in the 90s with the dot-com stocks. A few companies made good money and suddenly anyone with the $$$ to invest wanted in on the deal. That drove the prices of companies who really had no marketable plan high enough to create the crash that followed. When the stocks crashed, the money went into other more traditional stocks and kept the economy sound.
Some of it went into housing and real estate, mainly due to the huge number of salesmen selling a 'guaranteed' income for life with 'no money down'. It worked for a few, but a lot of others who came into the bubble late are now caught with their pants down. Then the money began pouring into the gold market, driving prices up again and creating another bubble. This one has yet to burst, but rest assured it will do so.
Now the money is pouring into the oil market and it is creating another bubble. This too will burst and prices will fall, but the problem is that while gold affects only those items that are made of gold, and housing affects one aspect of the economy (construction), oil affects everything. So I do expect the worst, although I seriously hope for the best. The worst is a full-blown depression that will spread globally and reduce cities to some perverted Mad Max movie, while forcing other areas to take drastic measures to protect themselves. I expect governments to fall, and industries to disappear. First-world countries will become third-world, and third-world countries will undergo genocide from hunger and disease.
But the world will rebuild, and I fully plan on having enough to buy some diesel equipment that I would love to have. It's way out of my price range now, but when they are too expensive to run, I bet I could pick up a nice small dozer and backhoe for a song.
Those who can survive without help
will emerge on the other side in a very advantageous position, as always occurs with depressions.
TheRedneck
I personally think the free market works and gas prices will go down just like other times in our history.
I agree completely. The fuel crisis is temporary. It's a bubble, just like housing or gold. We have a large group of people in this country (and I assume around the world as well) that produce nothing but money, by buying and selling anything they can find to buy and sell.
It started way back in the 90s with the dot-com stocks. A few companies made good money and suddenly anyone with the $$$ to invest wanted in on the deal. That drove the prices of companies who really had no marketable plan high enough to create the crash that followed. When the stocks crashed, the money went into other more traditional stocks and kept the economy sound.
Some of it went into housing and real estate, mainly due to the huge number of salesmen selling a 'guaranteed' income for life with 'no money down'. It worked for a few, but a lot of others who came into the bubble late are now caught with their pants down. Then the money began pouring into the gold market, driving prices up again and creating another bubble. This one has yet to burst, but rest assured it will do so.
Now the money is pouring into the oil market and it is creating another bubble. This too will burst and prices will fall, but the problem is that while gold affects only those items that are made of gold, and housing affects one aspect of the economy (construction), oil affects everything. So I do expect the worst, although I seriously hope for the best. The worst is a full-blown depression that will spread globally and reduce cities to some perverted Mad Max movie, while forcing other areas to take drastic measures to protect themselves. I expect governments to fall, and industries to disappear. First-world countries will become third-world, and third-world countries will undergo genocide from hunger and disease.
But the world will rebuild, and I fully plan on having enough to buy some diesel equipment that I would love to have. It's way out of my price range now, but when they are too expensive to run, I bet I could pick up a nice small dozer and backhoe for a song.
Those who can survive without help
will emerge on the other side in a very advantageous position, as always occurs with depressions. TheRedneck
reply posted on 12-5-2008 @ 10:32 PM by plumranch
reply to post by desert
Looks like no matter how much oil enters the world market in the future, it would be sipped up by developing nations.
Thanks desert,
Thanks for your post! I'm a firm believer in basic economics that says that there is an elastic demand for oil. More oil causes the price to go down. Oil has always been that way. Only one reason oil prices are high. Demand is up, supply down. How do you solve that? Put more oil on the market or put up with high prices. Basic economics, it wins every time.
The good news for us in the US is that many (or most) countries pay more for gasoline than we do, sometimes several times more . But that is due to their incredible gas taxes for which they have only themselves and their governments to blame. See Highest Gas Prices around the World Some countries tax their gas 3 times higher that the cost! 75% tax. How do they do that? Well they just elect a lot of liberals, the liberals raise their taxes as liberals always do and then the citizens complain about the taxes. Go figure!
Think we should elect Hillary or Obama now?
reply posted on 12-5-2008 @ 10:51 PM by duffster
reply to post by Solarskye
I would love to see this on the market but as you would know we never will
The oil companies of the world and the govs of the world are making way to much money from us
They will buy the rights and put it on that shelf with the rest of the tec we have invented
We can not do # about it
I would love to see this on the market but as you would know we never will
The oil companies of the world and the govs of the world are making way to much money from us
They will buy the rights and put it on that shelf with the rest of the tec we have invented
We can not do # about it
reply posted on 13-5-2008 @ 09:32 AM by desert
reply to post by plumranch
Plumranch, now I'm thinking this. Not enough oil can ever be drilled for other nations to consume it at the US rate of oil consumption. Hence, how could the price ever come down (that is, the price exclusive of that caused by commodity trading)?
One way for prices to lower would be to have a glut. But, again, I don't think this will happen, since, even if there were a glut in the US, there will never be a glut worldwide anymore.
Although I don't agree with everything Thomas Friedman says about everything, I do think he is right on about the US needing to use less oil, and for us to be a green superpower, for our own security and position among leading nations. Again, what is wrong for America to be a world leader in meaningful green technology, as it was when we wanted to send a man to the moon?
I believe that as long as America ties its security and world leadership position to oil, we will be the worse and sorrier for that. We need to grow up and quit being dependent on oil, as a child grows up and stops being dependent on parents. 9-11 was a wake up call to America, but not only about the scumbags who would kill innocent people. We should have realized that our security can no longer depend on a global market for energy.
What we should have done after 9-11 was not to go shopping for more plastic crap from China but to invest in energy alternatives for our country. The oil market will be the global merry-go-round, and we have to quit riding it so much. Let other countries pay the high prices and go to war for their security.
Plumranch, now I'm thinking this. Not enough oil can ever be drilled for other nations to consume it at the US rate of oil consumption. Hence, how could the price ever come down (that is, the price exclusive of that caused by commodity trading)?
One way for prices to lower would be to have a glut. But, again, I don't think this will happen, since, even if there were a glut in the US, there will never be a glut worldwide anymore.
Although I don't agree with everything Thomas Friedman says about everything, I do think he is right on about the US needing to use less oil, and for us to be a green superpower, for our own security and position among leading nations. Again, what is wrong for America to be a world leader in meaningful green technology, as it was when we wanted to send a man to the moon?
I believe that as long as America ties its security and world leadership position to oil, we will be the worse and sorrier for that. We need to grow up and quit being dependent on oil, as a child grows up and stops being dependent on parents. 9-11 was a wake up call to America, but not only about the scumbags who would kill innocent people. We should have realized that our security can no longer depend on a global market for energy.
What we should have done after 9-11 was not to go shopping for more plastic crap from China but to invest in energy alternatives for our country. The oil market will be the global merry-go-round, and we have to quit riding it so much. Let other countries pay the high prices and go to war for their security.
reply posted on 13-5-2008 @ 10:50 AM by nyk537
reply to post by dbates
Agreed.
Then again it is not meant to be a long term solution. It's meant to be a short term help. We continue to pay skyrocketing importing costs for foreign oil when we are sitting on our own natural resources right here at home. Why should we not be using the resources provided to us by our own country, instead of relying on other countries?
I honestly can't believe drilling in our own country is such a big issue. It seems to me these people that get up in arms about destroying our own country could care a lot less about the environments we are "destroying" in other countries.
Agreed.
Then again it is not meant to be a long term solution. It's meant to be a short term help. We continue to pay skyrocketing importing costs for foreign oil when we are sitting on our own natural resources right here at home. Why should we not be using the resources provided to us by our own country, instead of relying on other countries?
I honestly can't believe drilling in our own country is such a big issue. It seems to me these people that get up in arms about destroying our own country could care a lot less about the environments we are "destroying" in other countries.
reply posted on 13-5-2008 @ 10:59 AM by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by plumranch
You really think that our gas prices are due to a shortage of crude? Our gas prices are caused by collusion, price fixing, and the unwillingness of our government to contest the huge oil lobby in order to do anything about it.
Drilling ANWR will give us a lot more crude oil. All this means is that the fuel companies will have more product stored up to sell to you at the same grossly inflated prices. You see... the laws of supply and demand don't apply to a largely monopolized market of an essential product.
ANWR is not beneficial for the people of America, and certainly not for the state of Alaska - the oil companies will hire out of state and foreign workers to do the building, but it will be subsidized by the state government - meaning that dollars go flying out of Alaska. As all the things the workers will spend money on will be provided by the company (not a lot of businesses on the North Slope, y'know?) even the paychecks of workers won't filter into the Alaskan economy
[edit on 13-5-2008 by TheWalkingFox]
You really think that our gas prices are due to a shortage of crude? Our gas prices are caused by collusion, price fixing, and the unwillingness of our government to contest the huge oil lobby in order to do anything about it.
Drilling ANWR will give us a lot more crude oil. All this means is that the fuel companies will have more product stored up to sell to you at the same grossly inflated prices. You see... the laws of supply and demand don't apply to a largely monopolized market of an essential product.
ANWR is not beneficial for the people of America, and certainly not for the state of Alaska - the oil companies will hire out of state and foreign workers to do the building, but it will be subsidized by the state government - meaning that dollars go flying out of Alaska. As all the things the workers will spend money on will be provided by the company (not a lot of businesses on the North Slope, y'know?) even the paychecks of workers won't filter into the Alaskan economy
[edit on 13-5-2008 by TheWalkingFox]
reply posted on 22-5-2008 @ 11:53 PM by plumranch
reply to post by TheWalkingFox
the oil companies will hire out of state and foreign workers to do the building, but it will be subsidized by the state government - meaning that dollars go flying out of Alaska. As all the things the workers will spend money on will be provided by the company (not a lot of businesses on the North Slope, y'know?) even the paychecks of workers won't filter into the Alaskan economy
Hi Fox,
Couldn't disagree with you more on that idea. I live and work up here. The people who work on the "slope" (our north slope oil fields) spend almost nothing up there. They bring it all back to their homes in Alaska to support their familys and Alaskan lifestyle. There are a percentage of lower 48 workers up there as well but that's because Alaska simply cannot provide all the skilled workers needed. As a businessman I'm very aware of the benifits of North Slope commerce to Alaska in general.
Most Alaskans favor development of ANWAR. We think you lower 48 people are very silly indeed for treating ANWAR as some sort of a wildlife refuge that shouldn't be developed. You have been fooled into believing the environmentalist's crock of baloney!
Is $4.00 gasoline high enough to change your minds? How about $6.00? Or $10.00? When there are nothing but government vehicles, service vehicles and cars belonging to rich people on our highways, will it be alright to drill in ANWAR and off shore California and Florida? What will it take?
Strange sounds being heard in Canadian North caused by ground re-settling from oil field mining
Posted 12 days ago with 2 member flags
Posted 12 days ago with 2 member flags
Newest topics, updated in real-time:
Conservative Leaders Address CPAC Launch Live Player Himalayan glaciers have lost no ice in the pas
Fragile Earth, Posted 5 minutes ago
Fragile Earth, Posted 5 minutes ago
Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniya : Palestinian Nation to Confront US, Israeli Threats agains
Middle East Issues, Posted 10 minutes ago
Middle East Issues, Posted 10 minutes ago
Knights Templar Seal Reveals Links To Reptilian Jinni
Ancient & Lost Civilizations, Posted 20 minutes ago
Ancient & Lost Civilizations, Posted 20 minutes ago
Why Argentina WILL Invade the Falklands & How Iran are Involved
General Conspiracies, Posted 58 minutes ago
General Conspiracies, Posted 58 minutes ago
Newest topics getting flags, in real-time:
Google accidentally released Maine election results early!
2012 US Elections, Posted 15 hours ago, 77 flags
2012 US Elections, Posted 15 hours ago, 77 flags
The CIA in Australia: America's Foreign Watergate
Political Conspiracies, Posted 13 hours ago, 17 flags
Political Conspiracies, Posted 13 hours ago, 17 flags
Iran to announce "very important" nuclear achievements
Middle East Issues, Posted 8 hours ago, 15 flags
Middle East Issues, Posted 8 hours ago, 15 flags
Occupy Wall street, we are witnessing social revolution.
Social Issues and Civil Unrest, Posted 9 hours ago, 13 flags
Social Issues and Civil Unrest, Posted 9 hours ago, 13 flags
Newest topics getting replies, in real-time:
Google accidentally released Maine election results early!
2012 US Elections, Posted 15 hours ago, 100 replies
2012 US Elections, Posted 15 hours ago, 100 replies
Massive Obama Conspiracy to Kill the Second Amendment
US Political Madness, Posted 17 hours ago, 72 replies
US Political Madness, Posted 17 hours ago, 72 replies
Catholic Bishops: Obama's Solution 'Is Unacceptable'
Breaking Political News, Posted 10 hours ago, 53 replies
Breaking Political News, Posted 10 hours ago, 53 replies
First Strike Scenerio in conjunction with the Departure of The Body of Christ.
World War Three, Posted 15 hours ago, 43 replies
World War Three, Posted 15 hours ago, 43 replies
The Above Top Secret Web sites are a
wholly owned social content community of
The Above Network, LLC.
This content community relies on
user-generated content from our member contributors.
The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership
who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides
a collaborative venue for free expression.
ATS Server: www2.theabovenetwork.com
Header data: 0.003 seconds
Page processed in: 0.290 seconds
wholly owned social content community of
The Above Network, LLC.
This content community relies on
user-generated content from our member contributors.
The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership
who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides
a collaborative venue for free expression.
ATS Server: www2.theabovenetwork.com
Header data: 0.003 seconds
Page processed in: 0.290 seconds
