Cointel Pro within ATS?

Wow, this thread exploded. Usually that would be bad, but considering all the staff members in the topic, it's the opposite. It's good to see that the moderators and admins responded in a timely fashion before the topic could be derailed.

Although I must say I feel for the topic creator. He hasn't responded in quite a while.

I have a confession to make. In private Ive been blaming originators of threads like this to be hopelessly paranoid. But if I look at my own history of paranoia, there were many times where I suspected people who post in my threads to be "disinfo-agents", "deflectors", "intentional liars" etc.

So...what I blame others of, I find in myself.

And thats natural on a conspiracy-site: Trust nobody, question everything. In that kind of distrustful environment it is expected that nobody is left out from being questioned.

I think the staff are really fantastic guys and I love supporting their ATS...but in the end we never can be sure who is who and what is what...and thats what makes conspiracy-theory so fascinating.

So I do expect these types of threads to keep coming up as the years go by. Its part of the conspiracy-theory process. But in the end, only those theories and threads that provide some evidence will gain wider public attention. The rest is a process of questioning, refining, discussing, searching.



[edit on 11-5-2008 by Skyfloating]

I'm curious why the owners:

1) Didn't commend/praise Ducky for "denying ignorance" and questioning EVERYTHING?"

2) Instead they condemned her for it, said she hurt their feelings more than any other thread, and repeatedly shined Ducky in a poor light for an issue which more than half the posters in here are ALSO suspicious of.

3) Have nothing to say about the obvious paid Mason/Agents who completely OWN the secret society forum?

As other's have mentioned, it's interesting how OFTEN this subject comes up, which certainly lends credence to it's validity.

I've never met you guys (the owners) but I'd like to think you're this crew of really genuine great guys, providing a free, open place for us to question everything. However, I don't know this, so I don't assume. If I was an "assumer" I'd still be assuming the government loves me, FOX News is fair/balanced, and all conspiracies are to be ridiculed.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
Skeptic Overlord have you or your management ever been asked to change or remove content regarding any sensitive subject matter??

Twice...

Once, long ago, Simon unknowingly posted something very sensitive to the static information pages, before the board even existed. He was asked to remove it, and from what I know, the request carried no threat.

Three years ago, someone posted the direct-dial line for an agent at the Defense Intelligence Agency. We were also requested to remove that, after direct contact by the DIA.

None others.

Well this really disappoints me, not these two examples but that none of us have ever stumbled on to something and posted it only to have gotten too close to the truth. We need to redouble our efforts people!

I posted a NWO thread once and my cable line was cut within 48 hours [most likely just a coincidence, or was it?], and I was thinkin I posted some sort of truth that they didn't want to be common knowledge, I was considering sleeping under my bed with my handy dandy tin foil hat, but when I got back online the [what I consider] agents had there way with the thread.

It then occurred to me that it isn't there goal to shut you up physically, they wish to wear you down within the threads, to win the argument or discussion.

Is ATS cointelpro? Very unlikely.

Do agents or disinfo agents post here, you bet!

The question I wanna know the answer too is will ATS members ever be "disappeared"

Will the government ever use posts made to this site and other sites like this in some sort of crack down against those they consider some type of threat?



[edit on 11-5-2008 by LDragonFire]

Originally posted by freight tomsen
I'm curious why the owners:

1) Didn't commend/praise Ducky for "denying ignorance" and questioning EVERYTHING?"

If you were the owners of this site and worked as hard only to get bashed every week, you´d feel differently about it. Do a search and notice how often this topic comes up since years. And how often its been addressed.

3) Have nothing to say about the obvious paid Mason/Agents who completely OWN the secret society forum?

Do a quick-search and notice how 98% of the threads are anti-masonic and only 2% pro.

I've never met you guys (the owners) but I'd like to think you're this crew of really genuine great guys, providing a free, open place for us to question everything. However, I don't know this, so I don't assume. If I was an "assumer" I'd still be assuming the government loves me, FOX News is fair/balanced, and all conspiracies are to be ridiculed.

If there were a suppression to express anything then this thread would be down. But its not.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

No. Never. Unequivocally, no.

What about Juniper Three??

SO. You clearly said:

A member of the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency asked that some specific info be removed

From here

The original question from the OP was:

Originally posted by TheDuckster
Was ATS approached by guverment intel of any sorts/bought out?

Could you clarify?

CT

Edit to add: my bad. somehow i missed page 5 of this thread.


[edit on 11/5/2008 by Conspiracy Theorist]

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
Are the 911 threads monitored and derailed by gov agents?? What is your take?

I don't know, and have no way of knowing. My "take" is that 911 Truth has been derailed fully, either by "government agents" or fools, it's well of its tracks.

S.O. I notice you post on JREF...to me JREF is either gov or ????

The JREF audience (with respect to their "Conspiracy Theories" forum) is not much more than a group of individuals getting together to make fun of another group of individuals.

Wonder why you are with JREF??

If you read my posts, my involvement has been to try and differentiate "9/11 Truthers" from "conspiracy theorists." My contention is that the two groups are different... 9/11 Truthers are primarily activists who are more concerned about who is listening to them, while conspiracy theorists are more concerned with who is listening.

Originally posted by freight tomsen
1) Didn't commend/praise Ducky for "denying ignorance" and questioning EVERYTHING?"

The post author is a long-time member who once sat, at length, with all three Amigos (and more) and learned a great deal about us, and even went so far as to commend our ethics and goals. She should know better... and it comes across as a purposeful tactic to cause hurt.

3) Have nothing to say about the obvious paid Mason/Agents who completely OWN the secret society forum?

This thread is linked at the top of every post in the forum. Yes, groups of Masons have indeed been a problem in that forum in the past, may be a problem now, and will likely continue to be a problem in the future. We've made it clear that we will not tolerate groups of members acting in accord to promote topical agendas, and have taken action against the accounts of many overt-masons in the past. However, our higher-order desire is to ensure we maintain a free and open environment for anyone to post what they like, as long as they do so with common social graces. As such, we're certainly not going to make any effort at topic control, and those who believe there are serious issues with masons simply need to do a better job stating their case (IMO).

it's interesting how OFTEN this subject comes up, which certainly lends credence to it's validity.

Why?

Have you done any research into the credibility of the party who originated the lies? Do you realize the origin of the lies and fabrications about us are based on a three-year old April Fools post (labeled as such)?

It seems that, for many, it's more entertaining to believe the lies rather than accept the truth. That's why it comes up so often, to have a bit of fun at our expense.

SKEPTIC OVERLORD POSTED THIS:


Originally posted by SUNRAY06
For those of you with time and inclination unless you have access to the IP logs or the server side logs of the people who connect and post here how are you going to know for sure.


We don't keep such logs, and haven't for over three years.





Originally posted by cornixman
Sorry if this sounds pedantic Mr Overlord but I fail to see any vicous lies, how can a question or a doubt be a lie?


In the opening post...



Originally posted by TheDuckster
...read ALOT of stuff that was so 'against ATS...
...
I want to know the truth.
What about?
"Was ATS approached by guverment intel of any sorts/bought out?



Clearly, the thread author has been spending some time reading the high volume of off-site lies and fabrications about me, our business concept, and our labor-of-love, AboveTopSecret.com. It's out there, and not hard to find. It ranges from horribly nasty lies about me, Simon, and Springer; to libelous flights of fancy about who we really might be.

I'm shocked and saddened by the implications and questions of the opening post because the author was invited to be part of our grand "Revolution Party" on November 5th, 2007 where we revealed our ambitious plan to use ATS as the catalyst to build a new kind of media company, where the users have total control. At the time, she seemed to be genuinely proud to be a part of ATS and participate in where its going... and met all of us and spent time understanding our passion and motivations.

It seems no matter what we do, no matter what personal risk we take in making this happen, there are those who would desire to believe the worst.


END....


Now, Skeptic, why all the guilt tripping?

The OP is asking a common sensical question.

You have the largest internet conspiracy site in the world. There are real conspiracies, and very real secrets that some people will do anything to protect... and if just ONE person leaked specific details to someone willing to listen and do their research like a workhorse, that could expose a whole lot.... just one person could expose a whole project worth billions of dollars, and very probably some politically/socially shattering secrets could come pourig out. All it takes is one connected person blabing to just ONE open mind who's willing to connect the dots.

We're not playing games here. What many of the people on this forum fail to realize is that a lot of the things talked about here are far more reality-based than their social conditioning will allow their brains to process. To the people that KNOW what's out there, to say that these suspicions have no foundation is absolutely laughable.

If you were approached by the feds or ANY covert alphabet agency and "asked" to comply, you really would have no choice, other than to do what they said. You're not gunna beat them legally, and you're not gunna win in an all and all out physical brawl, so you would just surrender to them because THAT's what you gotta do in order to maintain your stable life and protect your family which you love. If perhaps you were a shady individual, or an individual with a weakness for material gain, you may not be approached in an "official" manner, but maybe simply approached indirectly by possibly some NEW FINANCIAL BACKERS, some celeb PR agencies, some good sounding business ventures, and the money will do the rest of the talking.

I find a few things compelling towards believing that this site has been compromised:

- one big one, the fact that we're currently under the umbrella of the most secretive and corrupt version of our government then has been seen since the times before the Revolution

-two big ones, the fact that the conspiracies against the people of this country are overwhelming, and the implications of the effects upon society as a whole, should these conspiracies be revealed, is enourmous... and "economically" disasterous.

- these fairly recent new financial backers that have been talked about by certain members and loosely mentioned in some staff announcements

- the tendency by a few staff members to aggressively browbeat and/or guilt trip someone into either agreeing with them or into keeping quiet in feaqr of being banned or warned or deducted points or thought of as a bad member or something

- the fact that this website considers other "truth" forums, no matter how big or small, to be "competition".

- the fact that, no matter how much common sense we people on the outside of the "alternative research" BOX tend to bring to this website, the debunkers, who are, sorry but... WRONG because WE"VE EXPERIENCED EVENTS AND EPIPHANIES THAT THEY HAVE NEVER KNOWN OF PERSONALLY AND YET HAVE THE BALLS TO SAY DOESN'T EXIST OR ISN'T POSSIBLE (yet we usually have the decency to allow them their voice... something of which we are mostly afforded only the illusion of...) they still seem to have control of this website's mass consciousness, even though we're in the midst of an awakening of mass proportions right now.

- "shocked and saddened" How many times have we all heard a government official spout that line, like every time something might be blamed on them, they're "shocked and saddened" all the sudden? Whoa... Skeptic, you're starting to TALK like one of those talking heads the government pays to lie to us so they don't have to. Just an observation.

- the outrageous amounts of slander that goes on towards innocent members... not the average joe that posts a comment here and there... but the real heavyweights with good info or a story that really makes you think. I've noticed that the real outspoken people on here seem to be/have been bullied by certain mods with ridiculous warns and penalties for piddly things, and have been the target for unfettered trashtalking, like the mods and admins decide who they are going to defend and who they are going to try to make uncomfortable.

- I'm u2u banned, for example... I know what I was banned for, but I noticed that I didn't get banned for it until about two weeks after I had sent what I thought was a private message to another member, expressing my growing distaste for some of the things I've noticed around here and where I've been since I haven't been here as much. This says to me that A) your u2us are perfectly private until you irritate one of the mods/admins, and that B) they will search for something to ban you from for whatever reason they can find.

- I've noticed that abductees get the knock down drag out treatment here. So much so, that most abductees/contactees feel intimidated and forced to withhold their stories for fear of the horrible attacks that come here. I was hounded by a guy who I haven't seen opn here since, after I posted a thread about my personal ET experiences, and he just tried to dig up anything he could find in my previous posts to prove to people that I was CLEARLY delusional and in serious need of psychiatric help... like I was just some ranting derelict preaching about Xenu on a streetcorner. Abductees and contactees are the best evidence we have, and yet we have an atmosphere here so fully poisoned by biased skeptics, general meanies, and people posting obvious hoaxes and then disappearing a day or two later.... it makes me wonder.

- This is a business. Truth is not good for business, because the real truth would kill the market dead. Status quo is key to maintaining steady revenue.

- "Deny Ignorance" is to be respectful and not to (key root word here) IGNORE any info or word or personality or opinion. I find that hard to maintain in any environment that is based on capital gain and seemingly continuing the status quo. Because the very fact that you have financial backers means that you have collars with leashes on.

- The fact that you are so ademant about keeping this obvious illusion that "America is so free and great and look how beautiful our unadulterated speech is" is glaringly apparent when you so obviously treat this whole deal like this is some game that you can also line your pockets with on the side, and you basically laugh and snuff away at the fact that you would be a prime target for alphabet agencies and people with money and connections who wish to influence and/or stifle this sector of the population's opinions... it's suspicious.

I suspect all of this because it is common sense, once you realize how BIG the lies are... and also once you realize the potential that one single voice has. A world full of huge secrets + a paranoid government. Is this equation conducive towards equating with opportunities for big popular websites where citizens can talk freely about what the government is really doing behind their backs? Can they really afford to let any secrets out? Are they sure they know whether the right person is paying attention or not? If damage control wasn't fully in place, the damage would be... well... the end of society as we know it.

Common sense dictates that there are nefarious things going on somewhere within your enterprise here, because the truth is NOT being exposed. People are just getting more confused and overloaded. Is it because this is all just a bunch of snake oil being confused for snake oil? Nope. There is something very big you are not supposed to know, people. Don't underestimate the powers in play here. Don't trust someone just because they tell you to trust them, and guilt trip you and penalize you into brasinwashing you into begging THEM for THEIR forgiveness... when, in the end, YOU make or break this site, and YOU are the one either benefitting or getting totally used.

We question this site because we have a right and a very real duty to question it. There are plenty of other places to discuss truth, so you are not doing us any favors. If it was convenience we were after, we wouldn't be here in the first place. Truth aint convenient.

Also, think about this:

What does a business do when it wants to get rid of someone who's making them look bad, but not necessarily doing anything wrong? The most common method is to find ANYTHING that would qualify as a "violation" of their "policy", and then give 'em the axe for that, even though it never mattered until said affiliation became displeased with said affiliate.

So... you can either take their word for it, or you can remember the word "damage control" and at least consider that there may be foul play going on at the world's largest conspiracy theory website.

If this post gets me banned or gets deleted, well there's your proof right there. Although, you may never know what I said if they delete my posts. They'll simply deem it ill-mannered.

I'm sorry, guys. I can't just not call what I see because I'm afraid of bannings or losing points (the ATS IRS at work).

I know that fishy things have gone on here, as a matter of deductive reasoning.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck......




I'm just saying... if you're not paranoid, you're not paying attention.

Final completely insulting post trashing this actually very well put together website:

What do we do about all of this, if it's happening at our own ATS site which we hold so dear?

The people make this site, and I think admins, mods, and members alike will agree. Either way, this site is still as good as it's best posters.... and there are still a lot of awesome people here. So it's still an AWESOME site.

I don't know what's going on a the top, but there's something going on either there, or somewhere in between... and it's really unavoidable. The truth, or something like it, is coming and forces that be are fighting it's push out into the open. Human history, basically.

So... I guess just live with it?

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

I don't know, and have no way of knowing. My "take" is that 911 Truth has been derailed fully, either by "government agents" or fools, it's well of its tracks.

I disagree. Everybody I know realizes the 911 attack was just as contrived as today's news stories about serial killers and the next disease.

But since none of the lawsuits has worked nor the petitions nor the exposes, all we can do is bide our time until something in the Department of Justice changes -- which may be never. They didn't investigate nor prosecute Kennedys' deaths, nor WACO, nor Oklahoma City, nor the world trade center 1993 bombing, nor the 2001 take-down to make anybody accountable for what happened.

It doesn't matter what we the people prove, nobody especially the mainstream media is going to pick up on it and actually prosecute war crimes and crimes against humanity.

It won't happen because this nation has very BAAAD leadership. All they will ever do is cover up, cover up until there is a revolution. And it looks like my generation is in charge of carrying off a revolution because the older generations are asleep.

And now, after pages of this criss-crossed debate, I can see that this must have been a horribly uncomfortable exercise for our esteemed hosts. And the net result was a rather less than spectacular revelation that they had to remove a phone number once.

I tried to convey earlier in the thread that this question of 'big brother' involved in the community is almost irrelevant. I must have failed.

I urge those remaining to consider that, regardless of our host's intentions, what we do in here has, for the most part, been devoid of directed interference. Also, aside from the hosts personal life and motivations in pursuing the maintenance and care of this 'communities' web-presence, the fact that it is here can be taken advantage of, not just by those who we would consider the 'bad guys' but also by us.

Where else do you think that you could rely on the availability of every flavor of antagonists to one's notions, whether they be of despair or elation? I bet I could start a thread entitled "The sky is blue" and get heated debate on a range of perspectives relating to every thing from the physical to the metaphysical!

A great economist once said, "Without Theories, the facts remain silent" and while this is not a universal truism, it definitely hold true for many conspiracy theories. Herein lies an opportunity to ensure that the 'facts' find a home, and are not simply swept aside by a public dissemination system with a demonstrated propensity to neglect inconvenient facts.

In reality the presence of the government is limited to some very constrained forms.

-Monitoring us? Whatever, they can have at it, were not an Al Qaida training camp or recruitment center and that much is very clear. What we say here we SHOULD say here, there should be a place to say these things, and so the governments presence is at best an irrelevancy and at worst THEIR problem, not ours.
-Disinformation? Yeah, they better watch out! This is a clearing house for information, there are (I suppose) thousands reviewing and dissecting everything put forth on this site. If they foolishly think they can 'spread' disinformation here they are truly as incompetent as some of us have suspected all along. If you want to spread disinformation you have to go to a more 'popular' medium. like say, FOX, MTV, any television station really, and don't forget the press and radio.
-'Profiling' us? The government has all the resources it needs to do this without the hassle of a forum, which is quite high maintenance and narrowly focused.

I have found no reason to doubt the owner's assertions that no such relationship exists. I have 'heard' of negative material, but lacking any solid links and researchable resources it seems an empty idea.

While I would NEVER do this myself (because of my fragile ego, can't you tell? ) the owners might consider providing a board for the collection of nastiness that has been thrown their way over the years (put it on RTS for the sake of limiting the dissemination to the non-casual members) that way we can avail ourselves of the information and deal with the 'passing' references as they arise - thus avoiding these repetitive uncomfortable exercises .

reply to post by mrwupy


Oh hell yes. We might, if it's really good. We certainly want to look at it!

Springer...

Originally posted by LDragonFire
Is ATS cointelpro? Very unlikely.

Do agents or disinfo agents post here, you bet!

The question I wanna know the answer too is will ATS members ever be "disappeared"

Will the government ever use posts made to this site and other sites like this in some sort of crack down against those they consider some type of threat?

Well I think they are not above occasionally giving people a "warning tap", as if to say "you should really drop this line of investigation".

I think big-name [alleged] ET Contactees is a fairly sensitive area, for example.

Hey, wouldn't it be totally awesome if ATS did a thorough investigation into all the current sightings and contacts happening at the Mount Adams Sanctuary, right now as we speak?

As for whether they have actually "disappeared" or "suicided" ATS members - I have no idea of course. I have seen some posts where people talk about very regular posters suddenly just going quiet without giving any kind of "goodbye" post.......

Who knows?

As is usually the case with these type of drama bombs, the previously banned and disgruntled will pop in with that "other account" they set up to spew bunk.

The author of this utterly false, and deleted, post is such a "person".

Thankfully, the almighty IP checker never fails to root them out.

Since this "thread" has devolved into nothing more than a rant by a handful of illogical, concrete thinkers against the people who bring you the best site of its kind online and since every possible honest answer has been given (again and again and again) it's now CLOSED.

Springer...


[edit on 5-11-2008 by Springer]

You can tell the member to use the contact us form, or message a senior member of the staff.

I'd be happy to look into his account issues, although it's a bit odd that you didn't post the username.

Originally posted by Djarums
I'd be happy to look into his account issues, although it's a bit odd that you didn't post the username.

It would be rather rude to point out a member that has been post banned for a violation of the T&C publicly. This is an issue that is best discussed privately between the member and the staff.



As far as I am concerned this issue has been resolved. The administration has publicly denounced the accusations against them. Without any shred of real proof I do not see why this issue has to be rehashed again and again.

There will always be the accusation amongst some that nefarious deeds are done behind the scenes. It's inevitable, as the membership grows as well as the site there is always going to be misplaced distrust and rumor.

However it still remains this fact that the membership is allowed to post and have viewed an astonishing amount of different ideas and theories without reprisal from the forum staff and the site owners. Only twice has an issue come up where the site owners have had to remove content that has been posted by membership because of outside influence. In one instance this removal did not hamper the discussion of the issue at hand.

I can also understand the feelings of the site owners in this issue how it can be very upsetting. They have vested a lot of time and hard work into making this site well run and well received.

Further to expand on the issue the original poster has not been banned for these accusations. The reason is because the poster has not violated the terms and conditions of this site. She has simply stated a question and wanted it to be addressed. The issue has been addressed by the site owners and I believe addressed well.

Also this topic I believe is a offshoot of another topic not related, but has come about because of it. I will not discuss that separate issue, because my feelings on that issue have already been posted.

In my opinion as incredulous and irrelevant as it may be this topic has run its course and further discussion will only divide and polarize a board that in my opinion runs extremely well and has a great membership. Issues discussed in the manner that this one has will arise from time to time, undoubtedly at the dismay of the site owners. However if discussed in a calm rational way I believe that each issue can be resolved in a gratifying way for all concerned.

To keep rehashing old tired accusations does not in my opinion help this board move forward but makes it more difficult for this board to produce the well written responses of its membership and causes undue drama among people that otherwise would have no argument against each other.

While I personaly have my simple disagreements with some of the subjects topics and issues of this board they are my personal issues and as such I don't wish to bother the staff with them. Why? Because simply the problems are my own and as such are not an issue that the staff need worry about discussing.

Much of this thread itself could have been avoided if the original poster had brought these concerns directly to the staff instead of making a public issue of this. However because she did bring this issue forward we the membership along with the staff have discussed this issue in a fair and reasonable way.

Just my silly 2c

[edit on 5/11/2008 by whatukno]

By continually discussing this topic we are taking away our ability to compose and present well written material, such as just posted by whatukno, on topics that really do matter...

It should be noted that while we discuss whether or not ATS is COINTELPRO, that every day distractions like American Idol and the Mainstream Media and organized religion are still actively impeding the capacity of many to think freely and critically.

We apparently have that problem to a lesser extent here on ATS so let's not waste it by endlessly pointing the finger at each other....let's point the finger strictly where it belongs...in CarrotTop's direction...

Before I close this thread I would offer the following thought? Who is the more likely COINTELPRO candidate?

The people who provide this wonderful site for all OR the people who continually try to harm this site with false accusations?

I KNOW my partners and I are not "Cointelpro", anyone with a modicum of intelligence and the ability to research, via simple Google search, can see this site covers things that a "Conitelpro" would NEVER want covered so, who would seek to harm ATS? Why would they? There's your answer.

THREAD CLOSED.

Springer...








Discussion Shift

The discussion is shifting to the permanent ATS Issues Thread which will now the the single-source for these types of questions from this point forward.









[edit on 12-5-2008 by SkepticOverlord]