When we die do we go straight to heaven or do we wait?

reply to post by doctorex


I cannot say for certain that it has happened but with the number of times they have been translated, something has to have been missed somewhere chinese whispers style. The smallest change can have a big impact.

It reminds me of the old joke:

The pope dies and goes to heaven. St. Peter welcomes him. "Everything heaven has is yours," he tells the pope. The pope asks, "Do you happen to have transcripts of the conversations Jesus had with his followers?" "Yes, we do," says St. Peter, and shows him to an enormous library. He pulls an enormous book off the shelf, hands it to the pope, and leaves him alone. Hours later, he returns to find the pope pounding his fists on the table and sobbing. "I don't believe it!" cries the pope, "There's an 'r!' There's an 'r!'" "Are you alright?" St. Peter asks with alarm. "There's an 'r!'" yells the pope again--"It says 'celebrate!'"

reply to post by pause4thought

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by darcon

 

A few posts ago you wrote this:

LOL @ Christian perspective

(followed by mocking icons to rub it in)

Why can't we just discuss the issues?

If you made it clear that you just wanted to know why i was surprised, then you should have posted a more clear post rather than the above.

I was surprised cause i found it interesting that out out of all of the worlds religions, the majority of people on this thread are Christian.

It was just an observation.

[edit on 12-5-2008 by darcon]

reply to post by VIKINGANT


The funny thing, we can check this by comparing it to ancient manuscripts and quotes in other literature, and it's still acurate. Even if we didn't have the ancient manuscripts, the Bible is the most heavily quoted book in history, and even if every Bible on the planet was instantly destroyed, we could re-construct it from quotes in other books alone. It is through these cross refrences that we can also check it's accuracy and integrity over the centuries, and it holds up.

reply to post by darcon


How and issue can be made out of something as trivial as a curious statement Il never know

Maybe they don't want to face that my example clearly demonstrates how multiple religions do cause devision.

Unless they would like to debate the inescapable fact. Its as simple as deciding we want to unite as one but with so many religions and 'books of truth' with a 'my religion is the true way' I don't see this simple solution ever happening.

The harsh truth is when religion is involved people can never truly get along, just look at afghanistan for proof.

reply to post by Drakiir


I think a person can get along regardless of their spiritual beliefs, but i am not sure one can respect another persons spiritual belief, while pursuing a different one.

[edit on 12-5-2008 by darcon]

reply to post by darcon


Dead on

This question could be asked "if a Christian honestly respected the Muslim religion or any opposing religion when he walked into a their place of worship, than how can he believe at the same time that his religion is the the right way?".

Its a conflict of thought and its impossible to do although it sounds good i words but its just a way of avoiding it. Thats my overall point respect only comes to a point in how someone associates with another. When you get religiously involved with someone of an opposing religion thats when the whole mask of 'respect' gets taken off.

Here is a religious scenario: I have a friend called Mohammed and we are the best of friends we do everything together and am so glad I met him. When he goes home to prey to Ala and considers me an infidel. And lets not forget the best part how his race when declaring a Jihad wants Infidels like me wiped out in the name of spiritual cleansing.

Here is a spiritual scenario: I have a friend called Mohammed and we are the best of friends we do everything together and am so glad I met him. When he goes home he knows he has a friend that respect him truthfully for who he is and has an amazing spirit. He too believes that religion only causes problems and Im glad we both are spiritual and that we are the best of friends.

Gee I wonder which one I would go for, the war causing religion or the peaceful spirituality.....gee I wonder

This is to try and prove my point and that is 'respect everything' for fear of conflict will exist and wont ever go away, unless they decide to unite.

Im glad to say that spirituality has none of this garbage and focus on who the person is not what faction they are.

Im done repeating this to everyone else on here.

Im off to do some HCR so see you later Darcon

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
...let us not forget the fact that Saint Paul of Tarsus, who you are citing, was also Christian mystic

Originally posted by pause4thought
I'd rather forget this comment...

I think you would rather forget all my comments.

Originally posted by pause4thought
...for fear of getting into an 'Oh yes he was'/'Oh no he wasn't'-type argument. Suffice it to say that Christians accept him as an apostle with the gift of prophesy. Saying he was a mystic, then calling this a 'fact', is disingenuous.

The definition of a mystic is someone who seeks divine revelation directly without going through someone else.

That also applies to prophecy.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Christianity was started by Christian mystics. People who received information or data from Spirit, who then interpreted it, and who then wrote it down. Years later men decided to make it "scripture." Paul certainly had nothing to do with that decision, as they never asked him about it. His epistles were collected many years after his death.

Originally posted by pause4thought
I accept that you have spent time researching your beliefs, but the ideas you lay out here have no basis in fact.

If you refuse to do independent research and open your eyes to the truth, you will remain in ignorance.

Outside of quoting the Bible, what research have you done?

Do you have any evidence or research to offer us?

I have yet to see any.

Originally posted by pause4thought
1) Paul's epistles are part of Scripture, God's revelation to man.

What independent research do you have to validate this claim?

How do you know that the Bible was not inspired by God but only by angels at best?

Originally posted by pause4thought
2) Certain people mess with them, and receive dire warning.

See my answer to #1.

Originally posted by pause4thought
3) Paul is held in highest esteem by Christ's true disciples: he is a beloved brother.

Paul was actually on a higher spiritual level than the angel prophet Issa/Jesus. Jesus got the glory, lived to be eighty, and died in India, while Paul did most of the ground work to start the new church.

Issa/Jesus Escaped Crucifixion, Went To India, And Just Before Dying At Eighty Declared That He Was The Galilean Messiah

The Tomb of Jesus/Issa in India

I have even more evidence.

Originally posted by pause4thought
It also seems to have escaped your notice that from the earliest days Paul himself urged that his letters be read not only by the recipients, but also by other churches.

He was never asked to have his epistles collected into a Bible. That was decided by lesser men many years after his death.

If I asked you a spiritual question, your answer would be much different a hundred years into the future than it would be now.

Originally posted by pause4thought
you are serving Satan by relaying to me doctrines of demons.

This Satan character you mention, is he a good friend of yours?

Okay, by your belief system, Jesus has more power than what you call Satan, right?

Well then, why doesn't your god simply manifest a divine intervention and stop me and all those like me who oppose the hypocrisy that you are furthering.

We are all waiting with baited breath.

Hey, while he is at it, Jesus can also stop all the ministers, priests, and nuns - who preach in his name no less - from sexually abusing and in some cases RAPING THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT CHILDREN AROUND THE WORLD.

Oh, that's right...Jesus was out smoking dope when COMPASSION and SPIRITUAL RESPONSIBILITY were being taught in heaven

Originally posted by pause4thought
...without accepting God's true revelation of Himself you have become caught up in things that actually oppose the true Light.

Anytime you want to offer some independent evidence to support what you espouse, you will then be on the path of a scholar instead of just a closed-minded fundamentalist

Hint...hint...

Independent research means referencing outside the Bible.

Then you will learn not to promote a very pathetic god (technically a FALSE GOD) that at the very least can be objectively classified as a pedophile enabler.



[edit on 13-5-2008 by Paul_Richard]

It's time to grow up people. When we die we go straight to the cemetery.
All religions are fairy tales.

An important verse in the Bible addresses this question. Shortly before Jesus dies on the cross, he says, to one of the men being crucified with him that on that very day they both will be in "paradise." Here is that verse (Jesus is the speaker):
"And Jesus said unto him, 'Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.'" Luke 23:43
--DFB

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

Thanks for your input, but that was mentioned in the OP. Also mentioned was

1 Thessalonians says

"For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."

Which is what led to the title question.

I don't believe anything about this subject.

I can only go from my own experiences when taking others into the light.

What I find is this....

There seems to be an arrival area for those who make it over and do not get stuck in the belief-system territories. This is at the same area that the Akasha, The Park (Monroe's focus 27) are to be found.

There is always someone or something waiting for the newly arrived.

I watch as the 'deady' begins to wake-up from the 'dream of life' and soon enough they begin to remember that they have been there before.

Those who have taken their own life are always met by what I call 'nurses' because they are to be healed first before moving on to Review. Killing yourself here is seen as an indicator of illness there.

Once they have woken up sufficiently to remember what they are doing, they then move onto life review to see how we dealt with our contracts for co-creation. It is up to each person to review with some assistance from their helpers.

From there it is up to you what you do next.

You may choose to reincarnate quickly, which entails previewing certain life availabilities and options prior to making your decision.

You can also choose an in-between existence on other worlds before continuing your voluntary rounds of existences here on earth.

You do not 'have to' reincarnate at all. You have the power of choice in all things.

You do not have to wait to be resurrected by a higher power.... you are that higher power.

When choosing to re-incarnate, you look into all the options available to you, and I do mean all the options, so that you can choose your Itinerary. This does not mean that each life is predetermined, or that Fate is a reality. It means that you choose what life options you would like to experience and just as equally you can choose what options you want to have the experience to choose from in the life. The rest you make up as you go, just as we do when planning out a holiday and we leave options open so we can choose what to do when we are there.

Life is a 'dream', it's purpose is simply to experience what the universe/god/creative awareness that we are is capable of. By this it learns about itself, just as we do when incarnate.

I think we should all stop looking out from the little window perspective of indoctrinated beliefs and wake-up to our higher awareness so that we can see the bigger pictures, which are completely free of any belief. We could say god doesn't need to have beliefs about itself, so why do we choose to make them up and then enforce them onto everyone else?



[edit on 14-5-2008 by Tayesin]

reply to post by Paul_Richard

If you refuse to do independent research and open your eyes to the truth, you will remain in ignorance.

Teach me.

Issa/Jesus Escaped Crucifixion, Went To India, And Just Before Dying At Eighty Declared That He Was The Galilean Messiah.

Impressive. Now it's my turn.

Click here for serious debate and discussion of Flat Earth theory.

Wow! Thanks for showing me how to do independent research, Paul. You learn things don't you? I am no longer ignorant, and it's all thanks to you...

Originally posted by pause4thought
Teach me.

Start with the links I provided.

Then we or rather you will see.

Or not as the case may be.

reply to post by Tayesin

Good post

I agree with a lot that you are espouse.

There is a book that I think you will be interested in reading.

Although out of print, it is still available at places like Amazon.com.

It is called The Challenge of Evil and it was channeled by the late Graham Bernard.

Challenge is an outstanding teaching that in many ways parallels our own Solist Mysticism and we quote that book in our Glossary.

There is even a thread on it in ATS.

So here is an idea for those who are daring enough to challenge your belief's. When you die, rather than follow the path of the small light, why not just turn around and follow the path to that of the greater amount of light the universe. Forget, all the relatives waving at you and instead seek out the true adventure beyond this entrapped world. So what I am saying is this, go to the light and get recyled back to this world...turn around and go to the universe and break the bonds that hold you here to this world and seek out the enjoyment of new worlds of opportunity. Besides, you came from the out in the universe, not for just this world. It's all your choices! What would you have to lose.

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

No, my dear friend, purgatory is nowhere mentioned in the Bible. It is only encountered in the books written between the Old and New Testaments, and the very idea contravenes much Biblical teaching.

So the Bible got an upgrade? ...Purgatory, the Old and a New testaments?

What next disclouser ?

pause4thought thank you for that nugget of infomation.

am i being odtuse?

reply to post by N.B.A.Y.S.O.H


Glad to be of service.

Did you also read the two brief comments I followed that up with shortly afterwards? The books written between the end of the O.T. and the beginning of the N.T. contain interesting history, philosophical musings and theological speculation. From earliest times both Jews and Christians regarded them as profitable in some ways - similar to the way we benefit from the works of highly-regarded theologians and historians - but not a final authority in matters of faith, as the authors were not in receipt of revelation from God, something we believe only came via a prophetic calling and gifting from God Himself for the purpose of giving mankind the Old and New Testaments: God's revelation of Himself to man.

Sorry - I know it sounds a bit heavy. But the point is that even if a place was mentioned (in the 'books in-between') where a person's sins were somehow purged - this is not what God has said exists. If, as I believe is the case, the very idea of purgatory contradicts the Bible - well, you know where I'm going with this!

As far as 'disclosure' is concerned, the Maker of the universe and all that is in it disclosing himself is far more interesting than any other disclosure - to me, at least.

I dont really think this myself but i was just wondering if when you die you wake up in another earth like pararlell and when you die there you come back to earth here.

reply to post by welsh alien

I dont really think this myself but i was just wondering if when you die you wake up in another earth like pararlell and when you die there you come back to earth here.

Just make sure you return all your library books before you die here...

Jonar,

I am an adventurous soul but your proposal is a little hard to understand because it is ambiguous.

Originally posted by Jonar
Forget, all the relatives waving at you and instead seek out the true adventure beyond this entrapped world.

Do you mean one's relatives on the Other Side or those on This Side?

Originally posted by Jonar
So what I am saying is this, go to the light and get recycled back to this world...turn around and go to the universe and break the bonds that hold you here to this world and seek out the enjoyment of new worlds of opportunity.

To get recycled back to this world, if I am not mistaken by your meaning, is to reincarnate.

In doing so, one does not "break the bonds" that hold us here but quite the opposite: to enslave one's soul in flesh until death or total astral projection.

Originally posted by Jonar
When you die, rather than follow the path of the small light, why not just turn around and follow the path to that of the greater amount of light the universe.

Although materialists and many atheists would disagree, the non-living and infinite Light that many near-death experiencers have reported seeing (e.g., at the end of the tunnel) is what was used to create the Universe in the first place

There is no greater power than The Light on the Other Side -- anywhere

A clear way of envisioning it is to imagine a white light that is brighter than the combined stars in the entire Universe. Brighter even than the light waves that were emitted by The Big Bang.

That is what The Light on the Other Side is like.

Life is very important because how we have lived our life largely determines how far we can go into the light.

Source

The Light judges us indifferently and mathematically (i.e., precisely) in accordance to our application of The Golden Rule and our ability to love genuinely and deeply - which corresponds in the discarnate dimensions as the ability to Radiate Spiritual White Light. Once free of matter, the soul can ascend into The Light to the degree of its spiritual evolution.

Spiritually retarded souls cannot ascend to even a basically spiritual place on the fourth plane - where the religious heavens/communities are located - through their own weaknesses, not because someone is preventing them from doing so. They are indirectly forced to reside on the lower levels until they learn to embrace a spiritual path.

The higher the plane, the brighter and more powerful the dimension of energy. When one can ascend or expand one's consciousness in The Light to the point of being able to create a small amount of matter through projected thought (without being part of a Group Entity), then that soul has actualized as an Ascended Master or Co-Creator. Spiritual growth is all a matter of degree.

There will be lesser gods or Magi that will emerge in The Light and there will be Elders or Space Gods that will emerge in The Light. The quintessential example of a Space God is the being that orchestrated The Big Bang: The Original Creator.

The idea that humans can evolve into gods stems back at least to ancient Greece. However, discarnate Saints on the seventh plane espouse that there are no gods or Gods in the Spirit at the present time, but that there will be in the not too distant future - along with the first time emergence of The Original Creator in this space-time continuum.

To expand one's consciousness in The Light is the ultimate adventure and also the hardest path to undertake.

See my signature link about becoming a Magi. That higher awareness was inspired by discarnate Saints.



[edit on 14-5-2008 by Paul_Richard]

reply to post by Paul_Richard

That higher awareness was inspired by discarnate Saints.

...or demons. The only way to be sure is to check what they said with the Bible.