Is this What You Believe In? (Quotes From The Bible)

JmanFIVEk, your wrong, period.

It's "you're", not "your." And no, I am not wrong. What did you say? When god created the "original animals?" What the hell are you talking about? What exactly are "original animals?"

Never mind, don't bother replying please. I don't think anyone should put any stock in your understanding of the animal kingdom. Stick to make believe, it suits you better.

[edit on 12-5-2008 by JmanFIVEk]

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Of course it doesn't say this is a bad thing. The Bible is basically a guidebook on who you, as a slave, are beholden to. It's not going to tell you slavery is a bad thing - slavery is the entire reason for your existence. You serve no purpose, biblically, other than to enrich your mortal superiors and give eternal obeisance to your god when you die.

Maybe that's what you want - as you say, it's pretty ordered, and some people need that kind of order in their lives. But myself? I would sooner die - or kill - than be a slave to any man or god. And I would do the same to prevent you from such indignity, just the same.

i dont feel comfortable talking about this. all i have to say is that the bible has a very different view of slavery than man does. however, i understand why you feel the way you do.

And so the children must pay for the sin of their parents. A common theme to Christianity. Not only is every human being absolutely, eternally damned because of Adam and Eve, but every child is likewise burdened by the sins of their parents. The message? You, as a human being, are worthless. The only way you acquire worth of any degree is, again, by giving yourself over to a life of slavery.

you have it the wrong way around. you have to look at it from the top down. an isrealite´s family was everything. if he sinned and caused shame to a son and his son on to 10 generations. it was plenty of incentive not to do.

suffering from the sins of you parents, and even the sins of adam and eve dont make you worthless. it just shows that your actions affect others. there are plenty of examples outside the bible where human nature shows a child paying for the sin of his father.

but in the end, it is what you do about it. in the end you stand before god alone to answer for YOUR sins, noone elses.

Perhaps you're one of those folks that believes paying a tax in return for the services of a nation is slavery, while being owned and totally controlled by another human being is acceptable? That is, perhaps you're a Libertarian?

no not at all. the scripture was talking to people who where already slaves. if you were a slave and saw jesus talking and decided to become christian, then jesus was telling you to pay the dues placed upon you. suddenly becoming christian wasnt an excuse to run away or defy your master.

much like governments. governments are there because god allows them until his kingdom takes over (ill find the scripture, i dont have it off hand sorry)

till then, even if the governments are unjust, jesus says pay what you owe. if the government demands taxes, then pay the taxes.

betrothed woman who is having an affair, both should be put to death

Barbaric.

if sins wages are death, that means doing anything that is not treating your neighbor with the love you would expect is worthy of death.

barbaric to you yes, but if everyone followed it then the world would be a happier place

Unless of course, she doesn't cry out. In which case it's considered an affair. See above.

still alot better than islamic countries, where they punish the woman and the man goes free.

A system that benefits the rapist - biblically, women were not allowed to refuse their husband. Nor was beating the hell out of your wife a crime. Bad news: You just got raped. Worse news: You'll relive that experience whenever your rapist wants you too.

But so long as you obey him with trembling and fear, you'll be able to go to heaven to kiss hte feet of hte god who set up this system. Now that is generosity

what if the father refuses the bride price? nothing to say he cant

if the entire law hangs on 2 commandments, Love GOD, and love your neighbor, yeah i would say thats about right.

Someday a Christian will follow either of those commandments. I'll be struck dead with surprise, unfortunately.

ive seen a few, unfortunatly i could count them on one hand. *sigh*

[edit on 13-5-2008 by miriam0566]

Originally posted by chise61

Originally posted by audas
[Americans feel they have the right to express their religious zealously no matter the consequences]

I am sorry that we (Americans) offend you with our belief that we have a right to "express" our beliefs. However you must remember that our country was founded on the beliefs of "Freedom of Speech" and "Freedom of Religion" . Hey guess what we "AMERICANS" even have a contsitutional RIGHT (in America) to do so.

- [it is similar to the pro-slavery movement - the idea of abolition was unthinkable and so America lagged a century behind the rest of the western world - as it still does on religion. ]

On this point you must remember that compared to other countries we are a very new country, so if you feel that we are still a century behind, maybe that could be the reason. Maybe you suggest that we should advance to the level of some countries where people are still tortured and killed for thier religious beliefs.

[Religious extremists, such as Christians]

And what kind of extremist are you that you choose to group all christians in the category of "religious extremists" ?

etc..............

Total inability to take responsibility for their actions. Christianity is an organised religion - as such there is a collective responsibility. AS a Christian you are responsible for the actions of your organisation - if you do not wish to answer for the actions of the Church - remove yourself from it and join the millions of enlightened people who have moved beyond the simplicity and intellectual, moral, ethical baseness of Organised Religion.

Like it or not, Christianity is a profoundly evil construct design specifically as a taxation, to dominate the masses, and subjugate the world as a power structure, it is a well documented historical fact. Simply because the nefarious creators of this myth, and its modern proponents, have played upon mans natural inclination to mysticism and presented their power structure with a "moral" façade does not in any way dispel the reality of where this religion came from, why it was created, for what purpose and the the actions which have been carried out in its name. There is no moving beyond historical fact - no matter "how good" it makes you feel to be associated with an organisation responsible for more death, mayhem and human suffering than perhaps any other institution.

The idea that you wish to selectively highlight certain aspects and divest any association with others does not there fore make it so - Christianity IS all these things - as a Christian you are part of this.

The fact that as a Christian you can not accept that your churches transgressions does not mean that you are not responsible, or that they are not true - it simply means you are incapable of accepting reality and taking on the burden of responsibility for your churches evil practices.

Just because you WANT your church to be good doesn't mean it is.

Freedom of Expression and Religion goes both ways - if you wish to belong to what should be a criminal institution which should be brought up on charges for crimes against humanity then you should also understand that people will find this reprehensible and subsequently have every right to express their HORROR that such an archaic, despotic, corrupt and inhumane institution still exists. We have the right to say no more of this charade.

reply to post by audas


Which church did what?
Can I have examples?
The Inquisitions?
Following Jesus and going where other believers are is not the same as worshiping a man or leader as the supreme king on earth!
Men will do evil. It's in their bones to do it at some point.
How much evil is predicated upon their will and morals.
Churches with POWER and false dogmas will ALWAYS take man's souls into slavery to their church, But,
Jesus gave us principles to love God first and our neighbor as ourselves.
Not our Church.

Why does religion always raise the hackles of Man? Why do people continually have to fight over who's God is better? Its like being in grade school and picking a fight over who's father is the toughest. We all have faith in SOMETHING. No one has the right to take that away from anyone. I am not a Christian, but I respect and admire Yeshua. He was what every human being has the capacity to become; he said so himself. The Bible has parts that do not sit well with me; however, I have no right to judge it as BAD because I don't like it and no one else does either. It is a matter of faith, and faith cannot be proved or disproved. Stop fighting and arguing; no matter from which faith or religion you come from everyone worships the same God, just in different ways.

Originally posted by AlexG141989
"Women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says."(1 Corinthians 14:34)

"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched." (Mark 9:43)

"One of illegitimate birth shall not enter the congregation of the Lord." (Deuteronomy 23:2)

"Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ." (Ephesians 6:5)

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 )


is this truly what you believe???

I am surprised you didn't include "There is no God." which appears in 15 verses. The most famous is Psalm 14:1. Of course context is everything. If you don't believe me follow the link to the verse.

Originally posted by audas

[Total inability to take responsibility for their actions. Christianity is an organised religion - as such there is a collective responsibility. AS a Christian you are responsible for the actions of your organisation - if you do not wish to answer for the actions of the Church - remove yourself from it and join the millions of enlightened people who have moved beyond the simplicity and intellectual, moral, ethical baseness of Organised Religion.]

And what makes you think that i am part of any church? A Christian church is an organized religion, i am simply a Christian. I'm sorry but as a Christian i am responsible for my actions alone, no one elses, especially the church's. The heads of the church and the members that do wrong are responsible for the actions, not the whole congregation.

Just what actions do you speak of anyway ? Can you give me some examples of the actions that you wish to hold me responsible for ? Do you speak of perhaps the Spanish Inquisition ?

Thank you but i am already enlightened just as you feel that you are, we are just enlightened by different beliefs that niether one of us can say is right or wrong.

[ no matter "how good" it makes you feel to be associated with an organisation responsible for more death, mayhem and human suffering than perhaps any other institution.]

Again you ASSUME that i am associated with an organization. No organization makes me "feel good". What makes me feel good is the fact that God loved me enough to send his son to save me and that Jesus loved me enough to die for my sins.

And would you please be so kind as to tell me what deaths, mayhem, and human suffering that "my" church has caused? Since you keep insisting that i am part of a church you must also "know" what church i am a part of.

[The idea that you wish to selectively highlight certain aspects and divest any association with others does not there fore make it so - Christianity IS all these things - as a Christian you are part of this.]

I am sorry but again you are wrong. As a Christian i am only part of a group of people that believe that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior. Being a Christian does not in itself make me a part of any church or organized religion, it simply makes me a believer in, and a follower of Jesus.

[The fact that as a Christian you can not accept that your churches transgressions does not mean that you are not responsible, or that they are not true - it simply means you are incapable of accepting reality and taking on the burden of responsibility for your churches evil practices.]

Again i ask what church do you speak of ? You will need to be a little more specific here as i know not which church you refer to. You still have yet to give me any examples, let alone facts of the "evil practices" that "my" church has carried out, that you expect me to carry the burden of.

[Just because you WANT your church to be good doesn't mean it is.]

Again what church????? You keep talking & talking about the same thing over & over again, but yet you say nothing.

[Freedom of Expression and Religion goes both ways - if you wish to belong to what should be a criminal institution which should be brought up on charges for crimes against humanity then you should also understand that people will find this reprehensible and subsequently have every right to express their HORROR that such an archaic, despotic, corrupt and inhumane institution still exists. We have the right to say no more of this charade.]

And here it is AGAIN . I would really like to know just exactly what it is that you insist that i belong to? You're right these freedoms do go both ways. I however was speaking about the fact that in America we have freedom of speech and religion in the context that it seemed to offend you so much that we Americans felt that we could say what ever we felt, and yes we do have that right as Americans IN AMERICA. It doesn't seem to offend you that you freely speak your mind whever it is that you're at, but it seemsd to bother you that "Americans" speak thier mind.

My comments were mainly pertaining to the fact that you managed to attack a religion, a whole nation, and all it's people in one post. I do notice that you did not respond to my statements or questions. Would you care to answer the question " what kind of extremist are you that you group all Christians into the group of an extremist religion ?"

This really isn't fair. The Bible is a collection of Jewish writings complied by Europeans. Those books were written by a diverse group of people over a very long period of time. Jehovah's character and judgement varies greatly in the Old Testament alone, not to mention that Jesus carefully nullified many of the old Hebrew laws.

The modern canon is only one manifestation. Even modern groups of Christians don't agree on what books are "valid" and which aren't. (Though their criteria is often purely modish . . .)
People should read the thing and drop all the crap they learned. They should read multiple translations from a variety of sources. Read it for what it is and you will find that these writers were brilliant. That's why the writings persist. Like Led Zeppelin. Instant Classics.

Now, let's talk about the Book of Enoch and WHY it was so revered at one point and then dropped from the canon very suddenly....

reply to post by AlexG141989
Some of your quotes are from a modern version of the Bible and the actual words have been changed. They are not translations but versions that are copyrighted. The King James Bible is not copyrighted and the words are more accurate. Also, some of your quotes are from Old Testament Law that was written to the Hebrews many hundreds of years before Christ. The word slave, as one example, did not mean what it means today. If you look at Exodus, 23;16 also part of the Mosaic law, you'll see what God thinks of slavery. "And he that stealeth a man and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death". The law required the ultimate capital punishment for the type of slavery that was practiced in the southern states of the United States of America. The kind of slavery that was practiced in the Old Testament Bible times was one in which a man would occasionally contract himself to work for a debtor, to pay off a debt. It would be for a stated number of years and the debt would be paid and he would be free. It was very similar to the indentured servants who sold themselves for seven years to someone living in the U.S., for a ticket on a ship to come to this country. Perhaps someone else can address the others you questioned because I can not see them and can't remember all of them. There are explanations for them all, but I have a feeling that your questions are not about actually seeking the truth of God, but rather pointing out things that you disagree with because you don't understand them, and you think you can trick some Christian who you believe to be stupid. Why don't you ask how you may be forgiven of your sins, or how you can know God, and how you may learn to understand the Bible yourself. God will reward anyone who diligently seeks Him and if you ask Him, he will point you to His truth. Do you know you can have the assurance of an eternity in heaven? Don't confuse the behavior of stupid Christians with the Bible or with the message of Jesus Christ. Do you know what Ghandi said about so called "Christian" America? He said, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ". I am a Christian, but I am not surprised at Ghandi's observation. I have been around other Christians for many years and it's hard for me to like them. But it is NOT because they believe and live the Bible that they are unlikable and stupid. It is because they have NOT carefully examined the Bible and do NOT follow the teachings of Christ. Jesus Christ was careful NOT to enter into any of the political arguments of the day. What most Christians do nowadays is come up with their opinions, and then try to find scripture to back it up, instead of actually gaining a thorough understanding of the Bible. But that's not God's fault. It's THEIR fault. The reason Christians are hated today is because of their politics and their stupidity. Because Geo. Bush claims to be a Christian, they believe him and don't check out the things he DOES. There is also a verse in the Bible that says, "the simple believeth every word." Here's another one, "Prove all things". Had they done that instead of just accepting what he SAID, they would have realized how evil he actually is and how foolish it is to disregard the warnings of the Bible they claim to believe. I don't have that many characters left so perhaps someone else can take up where I left off. But so many people say so may different things, why don't you just start reading the Bible instead of pulling things out of context? And I don't mean that in an unkind or critical way. I would suggest you start by reading the book of John through a few times and asking God to show you His truth from His Word. He won't steer you wrong.

The previous anonymous post was mine.

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by nightmare_david
The only thing that ever upsets me are people who push others into a certain belief. I think everyone should be able to choose for themselves whatever belief they want to follow. When people force their ideas and beliefs on to others, that's when I feel they take it too far. That, IMHO, is what this thread was trying to do and I agree that it's getting pretty old.

i hate to say this but hes not forceing anything.

there is a difference between forcing you beliefs and simply showing them.

noone is standing behind you with a gun telling you to believe his post. he has the same right to voice his opinion about religion as christian does spreading the gospel

I never said I believed anything in his post. What I said was I don't like when people force their beliefs on to others. Clearly thats what the person was trying to do here. I also never said he didn't have the right to do voice his opinion.

He took quotes from the bible out of context to push HIS BELIEF.

You took what I said and completely twisted it around and even added things.

Originally posted by nightmare_david
What I said was I don't like when people force their beliefs on to others.

what does a person have to do to force their beliefs on others? when i think of force, i think of the inquisition. or the holocaust. romans forced their beliefs.

all he did was quote some scriptures and ask a question. OKay, the scriptures are out of context and he doesnt have all his ducks in order. but i would hardly say thats forcing.

Its clear to see you dont believe in what you have read and its easy to pick and choose what to write and reed. Although by far most of your quotes are from the old testament and while you may not even bother to try and understand what your have written you should at least choose to write and quote more from the new testament. After all when Jesus was born he mostly talked about love, and loving each other, and more so loving your enemy as you would yourself, which is in itself a promotion of peace. You have quoted small samples and not the full excerpt, and is a waste of time for all who have read your jibes as they are not relevent. You have basically got into your head that religion is useless so you will write about useless quotes.
Yes these are quotes, but the bible aint harry potter, and not ment to be an easy reed.
Your quote regarding chopping your hand off, I would be interested to hear what you think it means, I understand what it means but its clear to see that people like you who cant look beyond there own front door, cant see what it means.
You also have to understand that while the old testamont like detreometory, was written in an era of more than 6000yrs ago..... and incase you hadnt noticed times have changed, and while you go on about the bible in general, what about the koran, which still uphold these laws of 6000yrs ago.
So before you go about trying to get a rise out of people, and starting a debate about things you clearly no nothing about, try taking up talking about; is harry potter real or not, as thats clearly more closer to your brain cells, although i can imagine it might even struggle with dealing with that!!!!!!

[edit on 15-5-2008 by Chewy82]

Originally posted by Chewy82
Its clear to see you dont believe in what you have read and its easy to pick and choose what to write and reed. Although by far most of your quotes are from the old testament and while you may not even bother to try and understand what your have written you should at least choose to write and quote more from the new testament. After all when Jesus was born he mostly talked about love, and loving each other, and more so loving your enemy as you would yourself, which is in itself a promotion of peace. You have quoted small samples and not the full excerpt, and is a waste of time for all who have read your jibes as they are not relevent. You have basically got into your head that religion is useless so you will write about useless quotes.
Yes these are quotes, but the bible aint harry potter, and not ment to be an easy reed.
Your quote regarding chopping your hand off, I would be interested to hear what you think it means, I understand what it means but its clear to see that people like you who cant look beyond there own front door, cant see what it means.
You also have to understand that while the old testamont like detreometory, was written in an era of more than 6000yrs ago..... and incase you hadnt noticed times have changed, and while you go on about the bible in general, what about the koran, which still uphold these laws of 6000yrs ago.
So before you go about trying to get a rise out of people, and starting a debate about things you clearly no nothing about, try taking up talking about; is harry potter real or not, as thats clearly more closer to your brain cells, although i can imagine it might even struggle with dealing with that!!!!!!

[edit on 15-5-2008 by Chewy82]

"Your quote regarding chopping your hand off, I would be interested to hear what you think it means"

i think what this means is that if something in your life makes you sin, let go of it... and actually fyi i've never seen any of the harry pottter films

Originally posted by Alcove
A few people have brought up the issue of OT commandments being valid. They aren't. They were laws given to the Isrealite people by God. They aren't applicable after Christ's death.
Hebrews 8:6-10:18 discusses this. It talks about the old covenant (agreement) being temporary.

"The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming--not the realities themselves." from Hebrews 10:1.

ALLis0NE, why do you say that the 10 Commandments are all anyone needs to worry about? Everything God says is important.

actually with the new covenant which jesus ushered in he said to keep the commandments,not sure where you come up with that.

reply to post by darkelf


Thats is BS the only time I rape women is when I am horny its not all about control....Well maybe sometime, but then its not really rape cause I slit her throat let her bleed out, and just hump away why the body is still warm.

Originally posted by Howie47
reply to post by AlexG141989

 

Quotes need to be in the (context) of the message of the whole Bible.
Those who have received that message have a whole new view of everything. You certainly haven't seen that insight. I hope and pray that someday you do. Keep seeking.

Yeah that is why church is bad!

reply to post by Osiris1953

iF YOU WERE A cHRISTIAN, that is funny. tHE op NEVER MENTIONED Christian in the original post and yet you jumped all over him saying he should not say bad things about them, if you are not, you should be.

The bible and everything in it was put there for one purpose, to control you and no matter how you try to change the words to tell people that you are wise now with the word, the relatives of the original writers are starting wars and poisoning your water with you not knowing because of the ignorance of your disputes/their intentions. Wise up people there is much to learn and it will take a lot of time but you must seek for the beginning of all of this and you will start to see that even the good was put there for bad.


[edit on 31-10-2008 by seek4 truth]

*Raises hand ...I can answer these ....lol ....


A little history on the Corinthians
When Rome demanded the dissolution of the Achaian League, Corinth, the leader, resisted and so Lucius Mummius, the Roman consul, leveled the city in 146 BCE, killed the men and sold the women and children into slavery. Some of the wealthier families escaped to the island of Delos. For the next 100 years, only a handful of squatters occupied the site. Julius Caesar refounded the city as a colony in 44 BCE, named it Colonia Laus Julia Corinthiensis and populated it with conscripted Italian, Greek, Syrian, Egyptian and Judean freed slaves. New Corinth, as Ancient Corinth, thrived.

"Within just a few years, new Corinth's settlers' enormously profitable commerce at this crossroads of the nations had brought thousands more eager settlers from all over the Mediterranean and enormous personal wealth to a local ruling class of self-made women and men." [Horsley and Silberman, The Message and the Kingdom,p. 163] The wealthy Greek families who had fled to Delos also returned.

Commentators usually assume that Corinth was an especially licentious city, a reputation it seems to have had in ancient times. Indeed, one of the Greek verbs for fornicate was korinthiazomai,a word derived from the city's name. Apparently this estimation was based on Strabo's report of 1,000 sacred prostitutes in the temple of Aphrodite on the Acrocorinth, an 1886-foot hill that rises above the city to the south. Recent scholars point out, however, that the charge was more likely an Athenian slander against the pre-146 BCE city since sacred prostitution was a Middle East custom, not a Greek one. No doubt Corinth, like other large port cities, had plenty of prostitutes to service the sailors, but they were not sacred.
www.abrock.com...


See they had slaves ..they had prostitutes (Temple prostitutes) they had pagan dietys (statues etc) so they were pretty worldly ...


The Women being silent ..I read somewhere where the women used to yell real loud and disrupt the services with asking their husbands what was said ..I will see if I can find that ..and come back and show ya ..
here is a little more info ...
A Roman household could be quite large because it was not just a nuclear family. In addition to persons related by kinship, a household could include slaves, freed persons, hired workers, tenants, and crafts or tradespeople. Family was "defined not first by kinship but by the relationship of dependence and subordination."1 Usually the head of a Roman household was the paterfamilias (patriarch of the family). However some of the early Christian households were headed by women; at least one household by a couple, the artisans Prisca and Aquilla. Prisca and Aquila established good-sized households in three cities, Rome, Corinth, and Ephesus (See Acts 18:1-12, 1 Cor. 16:19) [standard link].

Some Christian women did not live out the roles that were expected in Roman culture. They headed households, ran businesses, were independently wealthy, and traveled with their own slaves and helpers. Within the congregations, women took on the same leadership roles as men. Not surprising, conflicts arose within the congregations in relation to women who did not conform to the usual subordinate role expected of a woman. An example of this was Paul's conflict with the Corinthian women prophets' practice of wearing their hair long and flowing during worship.
gbgm-umc.org...

The eye and hand cutting off was a figure of speech ...showing how if you cannot control yourselves (Eye lusting and touching with your hands (fornicating )) then just cut em off ..it is better for the body if has no hands etc than it is for the soul to sink deep into the lust and it leads to destruction of the soul and body ... ....


LOL I just love it when posts like this happen ..they say they are tired of having what we believe shoved down their throats and told to them a million times .....then they go and goad us into it when we are leaving them alone ...lol ....

I actually vision Alex and Co. sitting with a texas fly swatter(Which is huge)in their hand swatting at flies ...and when no fly is around they walk around the room looking for them ...then *swat *swat ...splat lol .....

Just a joke guys dont get all defensive ...