Is this What You Believe In? (Quotes From The Bible)

reply to post by AlexG141989


I like the first part where it formally says women should shut the hell up in the churches. Too bad it didn't say in the rest of the world. There were scientific studies that proved that women talked more than men 16-20,000 words a day vs. men's 7,000 words a day. Conveniently after womens liberation, this figure was challenged (by women scientists, that is) and "uh hem,.....proven" to be a false representation of women and their speaking habits. The consensus by the new wave experiments were that men talked more LOL. I have been married twice and I need no scientific experiment at all from anyone to know that's a load of crap, thank you. I gave up on my last marriage because she cheated, always had to be "in the spotlight" (of men) and was a real "mamma's girl" and couldn't stop sucking the proverbial teat. But one thing I don't miss is her constant nagging and one liners that she would steal from others and repeat over and over trying to sound clever. I think the Bible should have taken that rule and applied it to outside of the churches as well. Maybe I need to pick that book back up, It's parts like these that prove to me that Jesus actually came down and was once a real man. Anyone who has ever dated, married or even walked by a woman that has spoken to them knows what I mean. Go ahead, ask a woman when you go to work the next day you go, ..how Are you today? She will tell you how she is from her birth till your ears bleed. As for the part where the guy rapes the girl then he has to marry her? C'mon guys, after all I just said, doesn't that seem like a reasonable punishment? It's not death, but it's more like a living death of incessant chirping and complaining from morning till night. I would personally choose death rather than to have to listen to my ex-wife any longer. She will be remembered as being so clever and smart at least that's what she would tell you lol. Burn.

[edit on 11-5-2008 by Phenomium]

As a woman, I find much of scripture quite offensive. I realize it was written over 2000 years ago and these are real people and how they lived. However, it has made a lasting impression through the centuries on women and how they were treated and what they were allowed to do.

I do admire the Jewsih people who did make an attempt for a structure of society as well as law and order!!!

However, in my opinion the Bible has perpetuated slavery and has made it acceptable for thousands of years.

I do not believe that God visited Abraham at his tent......in my opinion, Abraham recognized a high official whom he knew he should pay homage to, but it was later changed to God, Himself.

Lot was taken advantage of by his daughters and he was too drunk to stop them (this I find one of the most appalling.....quite a stretch to justify incest).

I believe Adam and Eve was a ritual performed whereby Eve agrees to bite from the apple, as the snake (devil or satan) watches......sounds like a witchdoctor or shamus who was uniting Adam and Eve on an Oasis. (Garden of Eden) Then Adam bites from the apple as well. Both their eyes are open since they consent to unite, have sexual intercourse and will know carnal knowledge.

I find it offensive that people will continue to quote that a woman was made from the rib of Adam as a companion as literal, even in the present time. I have read that companion meant marriage in those times. Either way, Genesis has made half the population second class and slaves to their husbands.

Many people do believe in the literal translation of the Bible. And, many people do quote a single passage to make their points, whether it be pastor, minister, priest or layperson.

As I read the thread these thoughts popped into my mind. BTW, I am a Catholic and attended an elementary Catholic school.

Originally posted by zerop

[ If Christians just kept to themselves, we wouldn't mind one bit. But they insist on trying to force their silly and dangerous belief system on everyone else, and will use any means (legal and political) to do it. Why don't they leave us alone?]
[ If you want to live in a theocracy, move to Iran.]

I have a question, maybe two. I really am not looking for an arguement, or antagonistic response, so if you can't give me an honest answer withouy doing either of those, then please don't answer. I simply don't understand something and am trying to. Why is it that you group all christians together as if they all have the same beliefs, and all act the same? This is not true, i am a christian, however i do not regularly attend church as there some things about organized religion that i am uncomfortable with, and do not feel that i must sit in a church every sunday to commune with my God. I do not knock on peoples doors, nor do i try to impose my beliefs on others. So i do not understand why you insist upon grouping me with others simply because i believe in God and Jesus.
Do you do that with all people, do you consider all jews the same, all buddists, all irish, all black, do you really believe that all people of one group are all the same ? Maybe you should open your mind a little and see people for who they really are, not for what you percieve them to be. I thought that the people that came to ats were trying to find answers, find the truth. How can you possibly expect to find the truth in anything when your mind is so closed?

You said why don't they leave us alone? May i ask who "us" is as i seriously don't have a clue? And finally why do you assume that christians want to live in a theocracy? I can assure you that the last place that i want to live is a place that is ruled by the church.

I do not seek to try to get you to belive in anything at all, that is your choice to make, your choice effects no one other than yourself. What i do hope for is that you open your mind and see us, see everybody, for who they are as a person before you judge us as christians.

And to The Red Neck and Osiris, Thank you for your wise posts.

Just to make a point, the Bible doesn't actually say the Earth is only a few thousand years old. The first verse of Genesis says God created the heavens and the earth, the next verse translated in English then says that the world "was" without form and void, but the word translated as "was" also means became, it is the same Hebrew word used when it talks about Lot's wife becoming a pillar of salt. Notice then that it says first that God created the heaven and the earth, and then talks about the earth becoming void and without form (tohuw and bobuw), these words mean...

tohuw (to'·hü)

a) formlessness (of primeval earth)

1) nothingness, empty space

b) that which is empty or unreal (of idols) (fig)

c) wasteland, wilderness (of solitary places)

d) place of chaos



and bohuw (bo'·hü)
1) emptiness, void, waste


After it was created, something happened for the earth to become waste, in chaos, in darkness, vacant. It doesn't say how long after this that the events described as the creation week take place, people can only speculate.

The rest of the western world is considered POST CHRISTIAN - when I say "the rest" I mean everyone except America. It is a sad and sorry state of affairs that America is considered to be a military junta (the head of your state is the head of your army - commander in chief) and is also considered religiously extreme.

It is a depressing and ultimately dangerous scenario to have the U.S.A., the most powerful country in the world, to be ranked alongside countries like Pakistan and Iran - both representing the few remaining religious militant societies.

Americans feel they have the right to express their religious zealously no matter the consequences - it is similar to the pro-slavery movement - the idea of abolition was unthinkable and so America lagged a century behind the rest of the western world - as it still does on religion.

Religious extremists, such as Christians, fail to recognise that just as part of their belief is to convert the heathens to the good word - so to is it a moral obligation to move the world on past this moral abomination called organised religion. There is an absolute imperative for people to stand against the most common justification of the most heinous of crimes humanity has endured.

Christianity IS the bible - there IS nothing else. If you do not accept the bible you are not a christian. The bible IS the good word. It is like saying I believe in science but think maths and physics is all a fake. Ridiculous.

The problem with Christians is the will not take responsibility for the devastation they sow as a collective - any amount of reflection on the collective destruction of organised religion would drive any sane, thinking person to the undeniable and logical conclusion that religion is simply evil.

But you are right - you have the right to carry on with your adestructive, malicious cults- as we - humane, thinking, caring people have the right to stand up to your nefarious practices.

Originally posted by AlexG141989
whats so disrespectful about this post???....im not bashing christians....(i do think christianity and every other organized religion is a load of bs) but this was in the bible wasnt it??? so how is it disrespectful?

You said you didn't bash Christians. Then turned around said what I put highlighted above.

Not only did you bash Christians there, but all the other religions of the world. real smooth.

The only thing that ever upsets me are people who push others into a certain belief. I think everyone should be able to choose for themselves whatever belief they want to follow. When people force their ideas and beliefs on to others, that's when I feel they take it too far. That, IMHO, is what this thread was trying to do and I agree that it's getting pretty old.

reply to post by AlexG141989
in context; which includes this:

Mark 10:5

But Jesus said unto them, For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.

Originally posted by AlexG141989
"Women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says."(1 Corinthians 14:34)

god is a god of order

eph 5:[21] Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
[22] Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
[23] For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
[24] Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
[25] Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
[26] That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
[27] That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
[28] So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
[29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

woman is to be submissive to man, man is to be submissive to congregation, congregation is to be submissive to Jesus, Jesus is submissive to GOD.

nowhere in there does it say this is a bad thing. those being submissive are to be respected and loved.

"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched." (Mark 9:43)

in a literal sense, this is true. remember the hiker/climber who was trapped under the boulder? he´s alive today because he cut off his arm.

but the scripture is ment to be figurative too.

1 corinthians 15:[33] Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. (evil communications is also rendered bad associations)

you may be close to someone but they might have a bad influense on your life (drugs sex etc). leaveing them might feel like cutting your right arm off.

"One of illegitimate birth shall not enter the congregation of the Lord." (Deuteronomy 23:2)

the word they use here for congregation is qa hal´, not to be confused with the word, é dhah´which also means congregation but with special appointment. so when isreal assembled to listen to the law, that was special appointment. this scripture is talking about the nation as a whole.

it is a requirement for citizenship. after ten generations, a bastard child´s offspring wre permited into the congregation and were granted certain priviledges. it was to serve a further penelty for committing adultery. they were allowed to live with the isrealites, they just werent citizens.

"Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ." (Ephesians 6:5)

jesus also say pay ceasars things to ceasar, how is that any different

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29

some context -

deut 22:[23] If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
[24] Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

betrothed woman who is having an affair, both should be put to death

[25] But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:
[26] But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
[27] For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.

betrothed woman who is raped against her will, the man is to be put to death, nothing happens to her.

[28] If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
[29] Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

if a man rapes an unbetrothed woman, he must marry her and pay the bride price.

which for some men i know is enough incentive not to rape.

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 )

if the entire law hangs on 2 commandments, Love GOD, and love your neighbor, yeah i would say thats about right.

is this truly what you believe???

yes.





[edit on 11-5-2008 by miriam0566]

Originally posted by nightmare_david
The only thing that ever upsets me are people who push others into a certain belief. I think everyone should be able to choose for themselves whatever belief they want to follow. When people force their ideas and beliefs on to others, that's when I feel they take it too far. That, IMHO, is what this thread was trying to do and I agree that it's getting pretty old.

i hate to say this but hes not forceing anything.

there is a difference between forcing you beliefs and simply showing them.

noone is standing behind you with a gun telling you to believe his post. he has the same right to voice his opinion about religion as christian does spreading the gospel

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
I think the first thing to do is seperate the old and new testament stuff.
Then interpret the new testament stuff in parable when you come across the hacking off your hand stuff. You are smart enough to understand the message of that scripture, aren't you?
Literal interpretation is some dangerous stuff and turns people into either zealots or Atheists.
So far you haven't had anyone from the crazed Right jump this thread but it won't be long.
We, my type of Christians, focus on the teachings of Jesus. We aren't all about people going to hell. We are about serving, being humble, loving our wives and kids, our families, we are about tolerance, and about forgiveness. We apologize in our heads just moments after we give you the finger for cutting us off in traffic. We are flawed. We want and strive to be better. We are not anti-gay, nor anti-Muslim, we judge not less we be judged. We look for reasons and ways to love and try and struggle each day not to hate.
You will find "Christian's" that say something different and they will be showing up real soon I imagine. If it ain't Love, it ain't Christian.

---------------------------------------------------------------
I punished myself and read through the entire thread.

What is an "American"? How many threads could read; "How do you American's answer for this" "How is it that if America is good that they do this, or that"
I don't think there is an American in here that doesn't realize that you can 't get a unified response to that. What the hell is an American anyway? You have your Dems. and Reps. and everything else and inbetween.
Soooooo, to all the "Christian" baiters, attackers, challengers, and what not, why do you expect to get some unified answers to these type threads that ask "Explain this Christian's"
I would suggest, since it is the easiest and most entertaining, that you start threads with..."Explain this you Fundamentalist Christians" Just like it would be appropriate to ask, "Explain this you Republican Bush backers"
You should know by now that to classify all "Christians" into one group is like classifying all "Americans" into one group.
The only complete common ground that Christian's all share is that we think the teachings of Jesus is some good stuff. Thats it. We split off in every direction after that, some hang together on the same road for a while but you get my point. Take it back just one step there and you have Christian, Jew, and Muslim all on the same page. Allah Ackbar!
So, I will debate and answer stuff, but only for my group of Christian's
I'm not going to, nor am I capable, of defending the Fundamentalist Christian dogma or tenents.

Originally posted by nightmare_david

Originally posted by AlexG141989
whats so disrespectful about this post???....im not bashing christians....(i do think christianity and every other organized religion is a load of bs) but this was in the bible wasnt it??? so how is it disrespectful?

You said you didn't bash Christians. Then turned around said what I put highlighted above.

Not only did you bash Christians there, but all the other religions of the world.

real smooth.

The only thing that ever upsets me are people who push others into a certain belief. I think everyone should be able to choose for themselves whatever belief they want to follow. When people force their ideas and beliefs on to others, that's when I feel they take it too far. That, IMHO, is what this thread was trying to do and I agree that it's getting pretty old.

ummm...i wasnt trying to bash any religion..i was simply stating my stance on them....it is MY opinion that ALL religion should be abolished, and if you dont agree with me then thats cool to, but dont accuse me of doing something i didnt do

Originally posted by audas
[Americans feel they have the right to express their religious zealously no matter the consequences]

I am sorry that we (Americans) offend you with our belief that we have a right to "express" our beliefs. However you must remember that our country was founded on the beliefs of "Freedom of Speech" and "Freedom of Religion" . Hey guess what we "AMERICANS" even have a contsitutional RIGHT (in America) to do so.

- [it is similar to the pro-slavery movement - the idea of abolition was unthinkable and so America lagged a century behind the rest of the western world - as it still does on religion. ]

On this point you must remember that compared to other countries we are a very new country, so if you feel that we are still a century behind, maybe that could be the reason. Maybe you suggest that we should advance to the level of some countries where people are still tortured and killed for thier religious beliefs.

[Religious extremists, such as Christians]

And what kind of extremist are you that you choose to group all christians in the category of "religious extremists" ?

[Christianity IS the bible - there IS nothing else.]

I am sorry, but you are very mistaken. Christianity is NOT the "bible", Christianity is the belief that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Saviour, and the desicion to follow in his teachings.

[If you do not accept the bible you are not a christian.]

Again you are mistaken. If you do not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you are not a christian.

You speak of christians in bed terms, because of thier beliefs. Maybe you've had some bad experiences with christians, but just as all people are not the same, not all christians are the same. I am a christian but i don't see how this could possibly effect you. If you are offended by my religious beliefs that would seem to be a personal problem that you need to come to terms with as i am not offended by your religious beliefs, or lack off whatever the case may be.

This is a forum dedicated to expanding the mind, being open to the opinions of others, learning, it just doesn't seem like that is your intention seeing as how in 1 post you managed to attack not only christians, but americans in general, as well as a whole nation.

reply to post by TheRedneck


reply to post by darkelf



I will certainly let you know when I start the thread, which will only be a matter of time. I just need to put together everything that I would like to discuss with everyone in an open, positive manner. I would however appreciate any suggestions as to how I might go about it without it getting unceremoniously dumped into BTS.... which would probably be a death sentence to such a thread, at least in my opinion.

reply to post by doctorex


Actually, the bible gives a time line. read the whole scripture, it states that God did create everything in 6 days:

Genesis 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31

5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

13And the evening and the morning were the third day.

19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

One thing many people do is put God in a box, they try and conform God to what science says and in doing so put science above God, making science there God. God exists outside of time, in demensions that we cannot even concieve, things math cannot explain. God is eternal, we are carnal and our carn sinful minds cannot coprehend the vastness of the eternal and sinless.

-Jimmy

reply to post by jimmyjackblack

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
reply to post by doctorex

 

Actually, the bible gives a time line. read the whole scripture, it states that God did create everything in 6 days:

I agree, however there is no mention of a time line that takes place between Gen 1 verse one and two. Some people believe that this means there could have been a substantial period of time between verses one and two. Others believe that the following story of creation is an explanation of verse one. The question is: did God purposely create a world that was void and without form as implied in verse two, or did it become void and without form due to some circumstance?

reply to post by darkelf


Yeah, the first verses of Genesis is a little odd, here's what the Young's Literal Translation say's:

Genesis 1:1-2 (YLT)

1In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth --

2the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness [is] on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,

Here's Jimmy's inference on the Young's Literal Translation:

When God was starting to create all of space and matter,
the earth was formless, it didn't have any distinguishing features on it, but it did have water

Now the thing I find interesting about those verses is this:

1. God must have created the earth, He was preparing it, to me that can only mean the He was about to make it, it doesn't say how He made it, wheather He spoke it into existance or if He did something else, I don't know.
2. Why was the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit?) flutterin' around on top of the water? That is just baffling to me really.

So as for a time line between the two verses, I think the first is the main idea behind this and the second is the beggining of the story, that's how I'm reading it at least.

-Jimmy

Text agree, however there is no mention of a time line that takes place between Gen 1 verse one and two. Some people believe that this means there could have been a substantial period of time between verses one and two. Others believe that the following story of creation is an explanation of verse one. The question is: did God purposely create a world that was void and without form as implied in verse two, or did it become void and without form due to some circumstance?

reply to post by darkelf


It comes down to, how much of a literalist you are, when interpreting scripture. Long before Darwin and Evolution; Some major theologians, believed the days of Gen. where figurative.
For instance, we have the problem of how did Adam. On his first day (12hrs.?) of life. Name all the major animals, looking over them for a mate, be put into a deep sleep and be operated upon by God, meet his new wife. Unless God made some kind of time dilation for Adam. Or some other miracle; it seems unlikely it was talking about a common day.
If it was a miracle, then all six days could have been also subject to time dilation!

[edit on 12-5-2008 by Howie47]

NEWS FLASH: The Bible was written by men. It clearly reflects the social norms of the time. There is nothing in the bible or any other religious text for that matter to indicate supernatural influence.

Modern day christians cherry pick the verses that fit modern day social morals. The verses which are questionable are ignorantly brushed off as being taken "out of context." This explanation is an insult to anyone who can read.

As far as I'm concerned, if you believe your "holy" book to be the word of "god", step up to the plate and accept all of it as such. Otherwise you're just "half-believing" what you claim to.

Originally posted by miriam0566
woman is to be submissive to man, man is to be submissive to congregation, congregation is to be submissive to Jesus, Jesus is submissive to GOD.

nowhere in there does it say this is a bad thing. those being submissive are to be respected and loved.

Of course it doesn't say this is a bad thing. The Bible is basically a guidebook on who you, as a slave, are beholden to. It's not going to tell you slavery is a bad thing - slavery is the entire reason for your existence. You serve no purpose, biblically, other than to enrich your mortal superiors and give eternal obeisance to your god when you die.

Maybe that's what you want - as you say, it's pretty ordered, and some people need that kind of order in their lives. But myself? I would sooner die - or kill - than be a slave to any man or god. And I would do the same to prevent you from such indignity, just the same.

the word they use here for congregation is qa hal´, not to be confused with the word, é dhah´which also means congregation but with special appointment. so when isreal assembled to listen to the law, that was special appointment. this scripture is talking about the nation as a whole.

it is a requirement for citizenship. after ten generations, a bastard child´s offspring wre permited into the congregation and were granted certain priviledges. it was to serve a further penelty for committing adultery. they were allowed to live with the isrealites, they just werent citizens.

And so the children must pay for the sin of their parents. A common theme to Christianity. Not only is every human being absolutely, eternally damned because of Adam and Eve, but every child is likewise burdened by the sins of their parents. The message? You, as a human being, are worthless. The only way you acquire worth of any degree is, again, by giving yourself over to a life of slavery.

"Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ." (Ephesians 6:5)

jesus also say pay ceasars things to ceasar, how is that any different

Perhaps you're one of those folks that believes paying a tax in return for the services of a nation is slavery, while being owned and totally controlled by another human being is acceptable? That is, perhaps you're a Libertarian?

betrothed woman who is having an affair, both should be put to death

Barbaric.

betrothed woman who is raped against her will, the man is to be put to death, nothing happens to her.

Unless of course, she doesn't cry out. In which case it's considered an affair. See above.

if a man rapes an unbetrothed woman, he must marry her and pay the bride price.

which for some men i know is enough incentive not to rape.

A system that benefits the rapist - biblically, women were not allowed to refuse their husband. Nor was beating the hell out of your wife a crime. Bad news: You just got raped. Worse news: You'll relive that experience whenever your rapist wants you too.

But so long as you obey him with trembling and fear, you'll be able to go to heaven to kiss hte feet of hte god who set up this system. Now that is generosity!

if the entire law hangs on 2 commandments, Love GOD, and love your neighbor, yeah i would say thats about right.

Someday a Christian will follow either of those commandments. I'll be struck dead with surprise, unfortunately.

reply to post by Howie47


One thing you got to remember is that, we have a huge freakin' load of animals these days, different breeds and species and such. When God created all the original animals, there was no corruption of genetic code, no mutations and stuff, there weren't very many different animals. And I don't think Adam named all the animals on the same day he was created, he probably did it over time.

JmanFIVEk, your wrong, period.