Is this What You Believe In? (Quotes From The Bible)

Originally posted by JPhish
"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29"

That's out of context, but lets put it this way. THAT rule, right there, is STILL better than what we do now.

Uhm, how is this better than what we do now? I hope your kidding. You can't really be suggesting that the victim of a rapist would be better off by being forced to marry the offender forever, now are you?

Sorry, but that is just insane!

Originally posted by Enthralled Fan

Originally posted by JPhish
"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29"

That's out of context, but lets put it this way. THAT rule, right there, is STILL better than what we do now.

Uhm, how is this better than what we do now? I hope your kidding. You can't really be suggesting that the victim of a rapist would be better off by being forced to marry the offender forever, now are you?

Sorry, but that is just insane!

Taken in context, a woman was expected to be a virgin at marriage. Non-virgins were seldom picked for a wife. Marriage meant security for a woman. The rapist is made responsible for the lifetime security woman he raped. Plus he has to pay the father for the lost dowry the woman would have brought had she remained a virgin.

Women are more independent toady and do not need marriage for security. However, monetary restitution should be paid if for nothing else but counseling. Also, if a child is produced from the rape, the rapist should be required to surrender ALL parental rights except child support. Please remember that rape is not about sex, it’s about control.

reply to post by darkelf


Yes, I am aware of what the biblical quote means taken in context.

I replied to JPhish because of the reply stating that the biblical law is better than the way we take care of rapists according to modern law.

Apparently JPhish has never been raped, or knows anyone who has been, because if JPhish did, they would not have made such an insensative statement in defense of biblical text.



[edit on 10-5-2008 by Enthralled Fan]

Ahh. OK, sorry. I agree with the responsibility part, but not marriage.

I am not christian...never have been. I've read the bible here and there, good stories. But to use quotes out of the book they base the way they should live their lives is just plain wrong. You can't go about hating on other beliefs.

I feel the wrath of many people for what I believe. I'm a follower of the Jedi Order. I believe in what they teach. No, it has nothing to do with the movie magik powers, it's more in what they believe.

Stop being ignorant, and if you're going to take one quote from this book, you may as well include the entire passage. You can't always trust quotes that are being used in a malicious way. Why? Because I'm sure there is more to it than what is used.

Originally posted by Maverycke
Well first off let me just say, "long time lurker, first time poster". Secondly, I also consider myself a Christian, I follow the bible, I belong to a Methodist Church, etc. But I do disagree with things in the bible, and contradictions that are made between the old and new testaments. But besides that, I'd just like to add that I heard one of the most profound things a Pastor, or man of the cloth could say a few nights ago on Coast to Coast AM. (Which I listen to when I get a chance.)

This pastor said, "Yes I believe in the biblical term that the earth is only a few thousand years old, but the book of Genesis says to go out and re-populate the earth. You don't re-populate unless something was already populated." I thought this was one of the coolest things I'd ever heard. So, just something to think about...

Yeah you might want to google the "nephilm" as I believe that is what they were talking about. and Osiris,, that was pretty damn nice you guy I just wanted to thank you for taking me out of this one. If anyone knows me, I don't start threads about Atheists or Christians but I been a long time defender of Christianity here and I appreciate you nipping this one in the bud. I hope it stays civil if nothing else.

- Con

reply to post by AlexG141989


Ok I will answer every one of them for you. I will tell you I am a Christian saved at the age of 9 beside my bed. I am self taught by the Holy Spirit. Yes this is what I believe. However, I don't take out of context and I read it with understanding.


Ok you have to remember that this is Paul and he wrote a letter: He wrote this letter the Church of God which is at Corinth. So what you are reading is someone’s letter. He’s talking to them.

1 Corinthians 1

1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;


1 Corinthians 14
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

This is more about the busy body women. This church was probably bad at it. Have you ever walked into a church today and all the women is gather around and they do nothing but gossip. This is not good. This is what he is telling them. He is saying Shut the women up. Keep them quite. They are hurting the church.

Mark 9

42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Yep, I say this too. Either that or hang them. Look what this verse is talking about. How many sick people today molest our children. How many men rape and kill our kids.

Mark here is saying cut your hand off if its going to offend you like this, If you can’t control your own hand, or you will go to hell. Your not going to go to Heaven if you go around raping our children.

It was just in the news that a man starting raping his daughter at age 11 then put her in his basement age 18 because he knew she was going to move out. locked her up for 24 years father 7 kids by her. His own daughter here. I say hang him. God does too. Why? God does not want seed from this man too be past down the generations. He’s a bad seed. I would say hang him.

Deuteronomy 23

2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

Old Testament Very strict God isn’t He. He didn’t want women running around being whores. Having children without Dads like you see going on today. Do you really think having a one parent household is better than having two?

God set rules up to help this world and make it easier to live in. We ignored them.


Ephesians 6:5

5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

It’s a fact that slaves and servants exist. So what is God saying here too them. Obey them do your job. He teaching them cause God knows how mean another human is. He knows another human will beat the crap out of you if you disobey them. Which you should know is fact. Humans would often beat their slaves for disobeying. He was trying to help them not get beat.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Good rule isn’t it. Too bad its not like that today. He took a woman’s virginity he should marry her. Even today men would prefer a virgin over a whore. So God is saying you take her virginity marry her.

Luke 16:17

17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

There you go. God has said who He is. Jesus fulfilled it. It is so. The laws and rules are in place.




[edit on 10-5-2008 by Shar]

Yeah, that quote was taken out of context, Plus, these passages you're repeating in Deuteronomy are from the Mosaic Law (Book of Moses's Law). Mosaic Law was nailed to the cross (not the 10 commandments like others believe, but thats another thread)

reply to post by Shar



"5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

It’s a fact that slaves and servants exist. So what is God saying here too them. Obey them do your job. He teaching them cause God knows how mean another human is. He knows another human will beat the crap out of you if you disobey them. Which you should know is fact. Humans would often beat their slaves for disobeying. He was trying to help them not get beat."

well, why didnt god just tell the slave owners to free the slaves??? it would be gods rule right? so they would have to listen

Can I ask what you honestly want to achieve from this post? Do you think that christians will really drop their whole belief because of one post quoting a few things that make no sense in today's society?

I can't stand the way you have non religious people trying to tell religious people that they are stupid and religious people forcing their beliefs on non relgious people.

If something works for someone and they honestly think it makes a difference in their lives then whats the problem?

The bible was written a long time ago much of it doesn't make sense in today's society. Do you reckon people hundreds of years from now will understand movies from today for example? No of course they won't

I love the shifting goalposts set by Christians. This is the typical dialog

Christian: "We are a peaceful, loving religion!"
Critic: "Yeah, well what about this passage right here?"
Christian: "You have to take it in context!"
Critic: "Okay... here's the context... doesn't look a whole lot better to me..."
Christian: "I meant the bible as a whole"
Critic: "Ooookay, but the bible is full of this stuff, page after page..."
Christian: "But that was all okay back in those days."
Critic: "How do you know?"
Christian: "The bible says so."
Critic: "..Wait, what?"
Christian: "Silly godless atheist, you'll rot in hell. I'll pray for you, because we're a peaceful, loving religion..."

Thank you Osiris1953!

When I started posting, I replied to a few of these threads, but now I just sit and shake my head in disgust. Most of them I don't even read any more. They are not questions asked in a search for truth, but questions posed in order to stir up resentment. The OP asked "Do you believe in this", placing out-of-context scripture in such a way as to attempt to emphasize how the Bible is somehow 'wrong'. Had it asked "How can this be part of Christianity?", perhaps I could have seen it as someone asking a legitimate question.

I, too, am tired of all the useless dissent. It accomplishes nothing fruitful. You bring up many many good points, and I salute you.

TheRedneck

/sigh


i feel like the OP did this just to poke a stick at the hornets nest

You know I'm usually one of the first people to find fault in Christianity(which it has many of by the way). But I came to this site to find the truth about everything that confused me. I know this religion has hurt alot of people, and it has helped alot of people.

But now I finally realized that christians are just trying to find the truth just like I am. So i'm no longer going to argue with christians about their beliefs, because that is just their way of finding the truth. We are all different, so let's just work together to find the truth that we are all so desperatley searching for, and stop bashing each other over things that really do not matter in the end.

reply to post by theendisnear69


I agree, well said.
A st*r for you

reply to post by AlexG141989



I am not God I don't answer for His thinking. However, humans had freewill. When slavery happen he put a rule up to obey them to try and keep them from getting hurt.

however there was rules for these servents.

Exodus 21:2 (King James Version)

2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.

12 And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.

Here's a good reference to how God will help out when a man is serving and wrong is done upon him by his master. So God did help those who was being wrong.

Start here and continue reading till he was free. Look at all he had when finish.
Genesis 29

reply to post by Shar


Shar, one thing you might want to take in mind is that slavery or servanthood, was not always agianst the person's will, sometimes a person would purposfully become a slave or servant to someone as payment for a debt they may have had with them. Also, slaves were not always treated badly, some slaves had it pretty good, slavery back then wasn't always like it is in modern times.

-Jimmy

Many Christians today claim that the Old Testament is defunct, since Jesus was the "lamb" to clear away its rules and regulations. This is just another scapegoat that Christians use to ignore the atrocities and bizarre laws commanded by their old testament God. Christians manipulate the scriptures so that they can assign a "kinder" nature to their God.

But the following verses clearly show that the Old Testament is not to be ignored. Its laws should indeed adhered to, for the New Testament demands it:

1) "For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.

2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

3b) "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

------------

BTW, the following verse gets my vote for the sickest bible quote of all time (2 Samuel 12:11 NAB):

Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'

Pretty sick dude, this God of yours.

reply to post by zerop


Geez dude.
When will you guy's stop the senseless bashing of Christianity?
I follow what Yeshua taught, you guy's constantly poke and prod and try everything possible to bash the Bible, it's like you guy's are sooo afraid of it. Why can't you just let us practise our faith in piece and quite without all the hate spewing from you guys? Seriously, Christians do a lot of good in the world, we feed the hungry, clothe the naked, heal the sick and many more things. It's true that we have diverted from the original teachings of the Christ, but you guy's aren't helping any by just senselessly bashing something you've never (truely) even been a part of. Yeshua taught us to sacrifice ourselves to help others and He came to fufill the Law, not to "defunk" "debunk" or whatever it. What went on in the Old Testiment is the Old Covenant, but now we have a New Covenant. All your trying to do is label Christianity as evil because you hate God. Why do you hate God though if He does'nt exist? What are you afraid of? If you believe that God doesn't exist why do you whine about how evil you think He is? Why don't you just shut up and stick to your own beliefs and quit spreading hatred.

Next up, zerop will come up with some lame reply that any Christian can easily debunk, stay tuned in.

Seriously though, I don't go around trolling like you do, I actually try to help out every once in a while instead of bashing someones faith, do I bash the Muslims faith? No. Do I bash the Bhudists faith? No. Do I bash the Raelians faith? Well according to them there is no God, but I don't bash there faith, I ask a lot of questions and have been trying to figure out what they believe and I am a little worried that what is being said by the gods is not true, but I won't bash them because thry believe in what they believe, that is no civil way to debate, much like what the majority of athiests on here do, simply just lashing out at Christians for some unknown reason. I ask athiests why they do it, but I never get a clear solid answer, just spinning and dodging the question with some irrelivant response.

-Jimmy

We don't hate a God that doesn't exist. But what does exist are ignorant barbaric teachings of an ancient book that many right-wing fundamentalists insist on forcing on america. Garbage like Creationism, Ten Commandments everywhere, Prayer in the schools, etc. If Christians just kept to themselves, we wouldn't mind one bit. But they insist on trying to force their silly and dangerous belief system on everyone else, and will use any means (legal and political) to do it. Why don't they leave us alone? I've never had an atheist knock on my door. Maybe we should start doing that, though. Religious fundamentalism of any kind is the biggest threat to free civilization there is. If you want to live in a theocracy, move to Iran.