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Ahmadinejad: Israel A 'Stinking Corpse'

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posted on May, 13 2008 @ 07:09 AM
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Here's another kick in the teeth for all those who like to think nothing but the worst about Iran.



"US confession: Weapons were not made in Iran after all"

In a sharp reversal of its longstanding accusations against Iran arming militants in Iraq , the US military has made an unprecedented albeit quiet confession: the weapons they had recently found in Iraq were not made in Iran at all.

According to a report by the LA Times correspondent Tina Susman in Baghdad: “A plan to show some alleged Iranian-supplied explosives to journalists last week in Karbala and then destroy them was canceled after the United States realized none of them was from Iran. A U.S. military spokesman attributed the confusion to a misunderstanding that emerged after an Iraqi Army general in Karbala erroneously reported the items were of Iranian origin. When U.S. explosives experts went to investigate, they discovered they were not Iranian after all.”

The US , which until two weeks ago had never provided any proof for its allegations, finally handed over its “evidence” of the Iranian origin of these weapons to the Iraqi government. Last week, an Iraqi delegation to Iran presented the US “evidence” to Iranian officials. According to Al-Abadi, a parliament member from the ruling United Iraqi Alliance who was on the delegation, the Iranian officials totally refuted “training, financing and arming” militant groups in Iraq . Consequently the Iraqi government announced that there is no hard evidence against Iran.

In another extraordinary event this week, the US spokesman in Iraq, Maj. Gen. Kevin Bergner, for the first time did not blame Iran for the violence in Iraq and in fact did not make any reference to Iran at all in his introductory remarks to the world media on Wednesday when he described the large arsenal of weapons found by Iraqi forces in Karbala.

In contrast, the Pentagon in August 2007 admitted that it had lost track of a third of the weapons distributed to the Iraqi security forces in 2004/2005. The 190,000 assault rifles and pistols roam free in Iraqi streets today.

In the past year, the US leaders have been relentless in propagating their charges of Iranian meddling and fomenting violence in Iraq and since the release of the key judgments of the US National Intelligence Estimate in December that Iran does not have a nuclear weaponisation programme, these accusations have sharply intensified.

The US charges of Iranian interference in Iraq too have now collapsed. Any threat of military strike against Iran is in violation of the UN charter and the IAEA's continued supervision on Iran's uranium enrichment facilities means there is no justification for sanctions.


Back to the drawing board.


latimesblogs.latimes.com...

www.campaigniran.org.../4886




posted on May, 13 2008 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Give Iran a break. They have done little to justify such widely-circulating speculation and suspicion all fueled by the same people who said Saddam had WMD's.


Give them a break? You imply they can be fully trusted without verification. What about their nuclear program that they intentionally HID from the world till a dissident group made it public? I guess that was nothing as well, just a mistunderstanding. The IAEA has yet to give Iran a Clean Bill of Health and cannot state for certain that Iran's intentions are entirely peaceful.

They employ proxies to fight their battles in Lebannon and the Palestinian terrortories and have helped forment trouble in Afghanistan and Iraq. Were we the ones who captured British sailors or was it the Iranians?

What reasons do we have to Trust the Iranian Government, given their past and present behavior?



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 07:51 AM
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reply to post by pavil
 



Originally posted by pavil
The IAEA has yet to give Iran a Clean Bill of Health and cannot state for certain that Iran's intentions are entirely peaceful.


As much as this maybe a shock to you, the world does not revolve around America. Not every foreign head of state has the US in mind when they start up a Nuclear Programme.

Iran has a right to Nuclear Power if they want to. Last time I checked America is not the head of the IAEA.

They're population has more than doubled in 20 years, the country regularly imports gasoline and electricity to provide enough power for it's citizens, and on top of that burns fossil fuel in large amounts; not only extremely wasteful but extremely polluting.
Their oilfields are being depleted and a large minority of Iranians live with out electricity or water. Those are perfectly acceptable reasons to diversify their power production.

If nations like Israel who have been at war since their inception and have publically stated they would willing to use Nuclear Weapons in certain situations:


"All options are on the table, not only in the future."

Hareetz

Not only have Nuclear Weapons but acquired them in secret without any discussion, then Iran most certainly can have them. The hypocrisies displayed in US Foreign Policy are not fair and not justified. Iran has yet to attack anyone.

Iran has done little to evoke such a staunchly bad reputation in America, and has much reason to fear an American attack.
US Foreign Policy has to stop picking sides and stop playing "Good Cop, Bad Cop" whenever it suits them.
Unless some damning allegations and evidence surface, Iran just needs to be left alone and not forced into a corner before it's really forced to do something drastic.


They employ proxies to fight their battles in Lebannon and the Palestinian terrortories and have helped forment trouble in Afghanistan and Iraq. Were we the ones who captured British sailors or was it the Iranians?
What reasons do we have to Trust the Iranian Government, given their past and present behavior?


I take it you didn't read the post above you, in case you want some more substantial proof Iran is not arming Shiite sectarians in Iraq read this too:
news.yahoo.com...

As for Afghanistan...
Okay now your talking out of your ass, name me one source who claims Iran is supplying the Taliban with weapons?
Google that all you like, turn your computer upside down and you'll reach the conclusion I did, that's bs.

The US has given the Iranians little reason to trust them and their ultimatums and much justification to defend themselves by any means necessary.

Perhaps your history is a little hazy so let me refresh you:

Iran's democratically-elected President Mossadegh was overthrown in 1953 for trying to privatize his Oil Industry. Washington had a fit, fearing they would loose precious oil revenue and ordered the CIA to overthrow him and replace him with a US Puppet.

That sock puppet was the Shah who Iranians suffered under for 28 years. He tortured and imprisoned tens of thousands people with his CIA-backed secret police and basically wanted to turn Iran into a model America. He walked, talked and acted like an American and absolutely disregarded his people's opinion and tradition.

Now let's fast forward to 1981. Iran is invade by Iraq, with plenty of US backing I might add thanks to the good folks at the CIA.
The same folks who decided giving Saddam chemical precursors to make anthrax and nerve gas was a good idea.
Good job guys that turned out to be a home-run.

Iran suffers millions of casualties, it's major urban areas suffer extensive damage, Saddam gasses the Kurds and the Iranians are screwed yet again by the US.
Then you guys invade Iraq a decade later to rid Saddam of the weapons you gave him, smart.

And how could you forget IranAir flight 655?
A plane packed full of kids and ordinary travelers is shot down by the USS Vincennes in the Persian Gulf in 1988, because apparently they mistook for an Iranian F-14.
275 people gone for what?
Yeah a Jumbo Jet and an F-14... apples and oranges.
Btw, another fun fact, Iran got it's F-14's from the US when the Shah was in power, isn't it ironic?
Their using your own medicine against you, just like Saddam did.

Now, from the above sequence of events, how do you think ordinary Iranians would feel when the US again, pressures the nation and threatens attack?

You think Ahmadinejad is going to take the accusations and ultimatums of George Bush seriously? A man who's judgment is so impaired and miscalculated he started two disastrous wars with absolutely no justification or compelling evidence?

No freakin' wonder he wants to deter a US attack with Bush & Co. at the helm of the world's largest military force.
Iran is not in a happy position, being surrounded by US forces and bases on all sides. I would be arming myself to the teeth if a man like that told me "All options are on the table."


By the way did America start it's own Nuclear Programme all those years ago? You guys were in the exact same position as the Iranians; rumors of a German programme under development fueled yours, yet here America is trying to attack Iran for sticking up for itself?

Oh yeah what whackjobs!
Standing up to decades of US aggression..

American policy so hypocritical and back-&-forth it's no wonder everyone is waking up and standing up to decades of America hegemony.
How the hell do you expect America to be trusted by nations like Iran if you can't decide for yourselves who's friend and who's foe?

20 years ago Saddam was an Ally, today he's dead.
30 years ago Iran was an Ally, today you want to nuke them.
Hypocrits...



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by pavil
 


The Mullahs place restrictions on every citizens freedoms. You ovously didn't view the entire video. I'll also once again point out again there is a Jewish MP in the Iranian parliament. As for partially proving your point ?? What does partially proving a point mean .
SO i guess we should bomb the hell out of Iran to liberate the minorities who don't have things perfect over there. In the process killing the people we are there to liberate. Oh wait.... sense of dejavoo coming over me.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 


Excellent post , good job. But I doubt those your trying to convince will read it .



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 06:33 PM
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Iran has been getting weapons from China and passing on these weapons and funding to insurgent brigades in Iraq.

Iran has been using Chinese satellite data to identify patterns and locations in US troop movements, also passing on this information to insurgents.

Iran has stated Israel should be wiped off the Earth and is a 'Stinking Corpse". Israel has said no such things about Iran's existance. Can you see why Israel and much of the ME (including Egypt) fear a Nuclear Iran? Their government is based on Islamic theocracy.

Conspirancy, you are anti-Western, so many of your posts are in favor of any would-be US opposition. If you live here in the states, this is shameful in how you speak.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 07:41 PM
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I would definitely say Iran with nukes is unnerving, still not an excuse to bomb them though.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 



Well, if you are only going to use a small snippet from your source, then I feel I should be able to post another claim made in the same story which you, oh so carefully, left out:


Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has branded Israel a rotten state which was doomed to collapse. He had previously called for the country to wiped off the face of the earth, and has drawn international censure for saying that the Holocaust was a "myth."


Haaretz

Yeah, sounds like a swell guy to me; maybe I should invite him over for dinner!...NOT!!!



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

As much as this maybe a shock to you, the world does not revolve around America. Not every foreign head of state has the US in mind when they start up a Nuclear Programme.
Please point to where the IAEA has given the Iranian Nuclear program a clean bill of health.


Iran has a right to Nuclear Power if they want to. Last time I checked America is not the head of the IAEA.
Yes they have a right to peaceful use of nuclear power. They are signers of the NPT and are bound by it till they leave it. Kudo's for you for know that the IAEA is not headed by the U.S., none the less they have not given Iran a clean bill of health.



Their oilfields are being depleted and a large minority of Iranians live with out electricity or water. Those are perfectly acceptable reasons to diversify their power production.
Their choice of economics are their problem. Their choice of building and hiding undeclared nuclear facilities is a problem for the IAEA and the rest of the world. Sorry you don't seem to think that is a big deal, most world politicians do.


If nations like Israel who have been at war since their inception and have publically stated they would willing to use Nuclear Weapons in certain situations:
Quick quiz: Which nations has Israel made peace with? Who started the hostilities in 1948? You may look at your books.



Iran has done little to evoke such a staunchly bad reputation in America, and has much reason to fear an American attack.


Hmmm, I seem to remember something in 1979?? I just can't put my finger on it.... Iran is the Father of Hezbollah which is responsible for the Beruit Marine Baracks attack. NAH, you are right, there is nothing to be mad with Iran over. Iran also supports Hamas which has hardly played a constructive role in the Middle East Peace process.




As for Afghanistan...
Okay now your talking out of your ass, name me one source who claims Iran is supplying the Taliban with weapons?
Google that all you like, turn your computer upside down and you'll reach the conclusion I did, that's bs.


I suggest you improve your searches then:

www.google.com... eid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2008-06,GGLG:en&q=Iran+afghanistan+arms




Perhaps your history is a little hazy so let me refresh you:
Thank you, but I really doubt you wish to get in a history debate with me. Please feel free to try. Yes I am well aware of the U.S. role in various coups ect around the world. I have never claimed the US to be saints. Every country does what it deems in it's national interest of that there is no doubt.






A man who's judgment is so impaired and miscalculated he started two disastrous wars with absolutely no justification or compelling evidence?

Unsuprisingly the vast majority of the world is of the consensus that the Invasion of Afghansitan and the toppling of the Taliban was the correct course of action after 9/11. Please look around to see if you doubt me.

You may debate Iraq, History will judge if it was the proper course of action to get rid of a dictator like Saddam.


By the way did America start it's own Nuclear Programme all those years ago? You guys were in the exact same position as the Iranians; rumors of a German programme under development fueled yours, yet here America is trying to attack Iran for sticking up for itself?
Nice try at the linkage of the two scenarios. However using your logic Every country regardless of signing the NPT should be allowed to pursure nuclear arms. That would be a pleasant world I am sure.



20 years ago Saddam was an Ally, today he's dead.
30 years ago Iran was an Ally, today you want to nuke them.
Hypocrits...


And your point is...??? Yes alliances and situations shift and change especially in the Middle East which has no real history of democracy recently, given the Royalty, Families in Power, Generals or Religious leaders of various nations. Lebanon is the one exception to the one party state in the vast majority of the Middle East. And even that State is under attack by Iran's proxy Hezbollah, which by the way is a minority of the political landscape of Lebanon. They (most ME States) have a long way to go by any modern definition of Pluralism.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by OpusMarkII

The Mullahs place restrictions on every citizens freedoms. You ovously didn't view the entire video. I'll also once again point out again there is a Jewish MP in the Iranian parliament. As for partially proving your point ?? What does partially proving a point mean .


Sigh. I'll try again for you.
Here is what I said.

I would respectfully ask that you research Iran's treatment of minority religions. Are they allowed to set up places of worship wherever they want? Can they preach in public? Can they publish their own religious documents? Do those minority religions have the same rights and protections as a Muslim? Research the Baha'i Faith and see how tolerant Iran is.

Your video said they worshiped in an unidentified and nondescript place if I remember it correctly, thus proving a PART of my point of Iran's dealings with minority religions.

I would ask you once again to research the rest of my statement if you disagree with it. All religions other than Shia Islam are second class religions in Iran. Doubt me if you will, but at least research it yourself. You gave an impression of Iranian religious freedom and tolerance in my opinon, thus my response.

Yes there are token Jewish MP's in Iran, does that somehow make the political oppression of moderates and others in Iran palatable to you? Iran basically disallowed about 40% of candidates to run in elections, are their elections free and fair?



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 10:28 PM
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Iran's Mullahs and president Mudinthehead crack me up! Its just like daffy duck going mad for some reason in a old warner brothers cartoon


Oh, and their wacky speed boats


funny stuff!!


To bad their in for a rude wake up call in the not to distant future.

what a bunch of wacky losers. They'll never get a chance to cut them ribbons on their new nuke plants. BOOM!!



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 01:55 AM
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Originally posted by lightseeker
reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 

Well, if you are only going to use a small snippet from your source, then I feel I should be able to post another claim made in the same story which you, oh so carefully, left out:


I used that small quotation because it stands on its own. Did you read the rest of the article? The entire mood of Meridor's comments is just plain threatening and more war mongering:


"Both America and Israel understand the severity of the threat, the implication of the threat if it grows,"



"both the U.S. and Israel haven't removed any option from the table."



"The Gulf states are required to take a more active position against Iran, and only thus can enough pressure on Tehran be created..."

www.haaretz.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Hareetz

They clearly consider attacks and perhaps even a low-scale Nuclear conflict as a perfectly acceptable way of dealing with Iran.
Typical though, wouldn't expect much more from Olmert, all he does is take orders from Washington.. and a few bribes when no ones looking I'm sure.

reply to post by pavil
 



Please point to where the IAEA has given the Iranian Nuclear program a clean bill of health.


Did I say they did? Inspections are not over obviously, but even El Baradi has claimed there is little evidence so far that Iran is seriously pursuing Nuclear Weapons:
BBC

Even if Iran was enriching Uranium for potential Nuclear Weapons they have most likely ceased due to effects of all the Western-imposed sanctions and embargoes against them. With the IAEA constantly monitoring them they wouldn't have too many places to hide.
Even the US Intelligence Estimate admits it's unlikely they still want to develop Nuclear Weapons:


It assesses "with high confidence" that Iran did have a nuclear weapons programme until 2003, but this was discovered and Iran stopped it.

The NIE adds: "We do not know whether it currently intends to develop nuclear weapons." The assessment admits that Iran appears "less determined" to develop nuclear weapons than US intelligence had previously thought.

BBC


Yes they have a right to peaceful use of nuclear power.


Exactly what I said.
And until it's been conclusively proven otherwise, they have a right to develop Nuclear power in peace, without foreign scrutiny, intrusion and threats from the hypocrits in Washington and Jerusalem who both acquired Nuclear weapons without discussion or hesitation.


Their choice of building and hiding undeclared nuclear facilities is a problem for the IAEA and the rest of the world. Sorry you don't seem to think that is a big deal, most world politicians do.


That's because most world politicians are aligned with the corrupt Bush Regime, and do anything and everything to make it seem they really trust and follow his initiatives in Foreign Policy.

Your exaggerating this out to be some major turning point in US-Iran relations. Underground Nuclear facilities?

America has underground Nuclear facilities, so does Israel, so does Japan, so do a whole host of other nations.
That's nothing alarming. It's a good way to stop contamination and help minimize any ecological or biological threat Nuclear plants pose to the surrounding area. It doesn't mean these are super-hardened bunkers focused on produced secret ICBM's packed with Uranium.

Tone down the sensationalism a tad.


Which nations has Israel made peace with? Who started the hostilities in 1948?


Lol...I like how you swiftly dodge all my other claims which proved too tough for you to try and even discredit.

What difference does it make who started the Arab-Israeli conflict, the point to remember here is that a nation who is practically in a state of war every single year and who has a clear hatred for her neighbors and a disregard for International sentiment and the conventions of warfare, is more than likely to use Nuclear Weapons at some point.

Israel is the one to be concerned about, not Iran.
Israel is the one committing war crimes, "accidentally" killing civilians and freely bombing Gaza and Lebanon back into the stone ages:
news.bbc.co.uk...
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.mediamonitors.net...

1996 Shelling of Qana: 106 Civilians killed
2006 Qana Airstrike: 50 Civilians killed
2006 Chyah Airstrike: 61 Civilians killed
2006 Ghaziyeh airstrikes: 15 Civilians killed
2006 2006 Marjayoun convoy: 7 Civilians killed

These guys are cowboys. They don't care whatever the cost is to civilians, their reputation or anyone else for that matter they do anything and everything to wage war against their enemies. If they can kill 20 civilians in order to nab one Insurgent they'll do it, that's the scary thing about Israel, their disproportionate use of force.

For me it's a no-brainer, it's like saying who would you rather give a Nuclear Reactor to? A man who dreads his neighbors with a passion or a man who's been passively sitting on the fence for the majority of his life.


Thank you, but I really doubt you wish to get in a history debate with me. Please feel free to try. Yes I am well aware of the U.S. role in various coups ect around the world. I have never claimed the US to be saints. Every country does what it deems in it's national interest of that there is no doubt.


That's it?

I really hope you learned why the Iranians do hate the Western world, they have every right to be just as suspicious of America as they are of them.
They have collectively suffered because of America's influence in the Middle East for decades; either under a Western-backed puppet, or from a Western-backed army; America has given little reason to Iranians to welcome their bullsh*t claims and allegations with open arms.

Don't be so narrow-minded, US Foreign Policy may like to forget history, but Iranians have not forgotten how they suffered in the past due to the consequences of America's hegemony

[edit on 14/5/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:23 AM
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Much of your argument Godfather of Conspiracy now is that Iran's Nuclear process "has likely stopped due to Western sanctions ..".

Are you that naive? Do you not think of all the time and investment and help Iran has had from North Korea in building their Nuclear program, they are just going to shut most of it down? Of course they will not.

For every Nuclear program there is an equal and opposite secret Nuclear program. Iran has several secret sites.

Did you know that Nuclear inspections are really just a huge waste of time? Why? Because as tthe previous statement says, there is always a secret program.

It was and still is the case with North Korea. All the money given to NK in food aid and otherwise to shut down their Nuclear program only resulted in their people sitll starving and because of having put that incentive money towards their secret program!!

To say Iran has halted their Nuclear program is ludicrous.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 02:27 AM
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reply to post by pavil
 



Hmmm, I seem to remember something in 1979?? I just can't put my finger on it.... Iran is the Father of Hezbollah which is responsible for the Beruit Marine Baracks attack. NAH, you are right, there is nothing to be mad with Iran over. Iran also supports Hamas which has hardly played a constructive role in the Middle East Peace process.


241 dead Marines is a piss in the ocean compared to what the Iranians have lost.
You can't compare apples with oranges. I'm not saying the Beirut Barracks Bombing wasn't a despicable act, but come on.

The Iranians have lost literally millions, over the course of the Shah's reign, the Iran-Iraq War and UN/US imposed sanctions/embargoes.
They lost their only truly democractic President and a shot at a flourishing secular state.
They have given up a lot more than the US has to justify treating Iran with such hostility and suspicion.
If anyone should be wary of anyone, it's the Iranians.

As for Hezbollah? Again.. piss in the ocean.

The US is literally throwing money at Israel every single year. Last year Bush & Co. gave the Israelis $2.46 billion dollars in "aid": See here
I mean who else makes their planes, guns, tanks and munitions?
That tops the collective sum of all of the Iranian support, funding and armaments sent to Hezbollah easily.
You want to talk about state-sponsored terrorism, there's a shining example, the US funds and supports the same folks who have no regard for civilians, laws, rules or reputations.

Israel may like to consider itself as more "civilized" in such a region but the reality is they have lowered themselves to the level of the Islamic Extremists and are no better. You can't fight fire with fire, and you can't don't against the people you fight by becoming as they are.

Israel's creation has DESTROYED any chance for peace in the Holy Land, Hezbollah may not helping stability, but Israel has symbolically ripped the head off stability and placed it on a pike.
Their hegemony ensures the Middle East will turbulent for decades to come. Comparing Israel's and Iran's responsibilities to peace and stability is like comparing the responsibility of owning a pet rock, to bearing a child.


Unsuprisingly the vast majority of the world is of the consensus that the Invasion of Afghansitan and the toppling of the Taliban was the correct course of action after 9/11. Please look around to see if you doubt me.


Yeah then everyone wiped away their false tears, woke up and realized what the hell Bush was doing:

people-press.org...
blog.washingtonpost.com...

If you still think the majority of the "coalition" still supports invading Iraq and Afghanistan you need gather your news from sources other than Fox and CNN.
Here in Australia it's almost mandatory for any Political party to say they don't support the "War on Terror" to have serious shot at an election.


And your point is...??? Yes alliances and situations shift and change especially in the Middle East which has no real history of democracy recently, given the Royalty, Families in Power, Generals or Religious leaders of various nations.


Do I have to spell it all out for you?

HYPOCRISY. Sorry for the caps but you need to get that into your head. America's Foreign Policy so hypocritical and back & forth it can hardly be trusted anymore.
They don't even know who's friend or foe, so how does the US expect other nations to consider them trustworthy?

Your only a friend to America as long as your interests stand to offer some benefits and gains to the US. Otherwise your as good as dog meat as far as Foreign Policy is concerned. It's driven by sheer greed.
The double standards that abound in America's history are not only unfair but unjustified.

Why should Iran have to live under US hegemony and ultimatums and not even be allowed the possibility of pursuing Nuclear Weapons?
America is not the world police my friend, as much they like to think they are that title is slowly slipping from their hands.

As for democracy in the Middle East... It seems you need to get out more.
People in the Middle East have been living by the Quran for over 1,500 years. It's ingrained, it's in their blood. Their lifestyles and social customs have become tattooed onto their people.
If you think any amount of US pressure, threats (real or empty) and bombs is going to change the habits of 1,000 generations of people than you need to travel more my friend.
You can't bomb ideals, ideologies or beliefs out of people. You want proof of that? Go see how well Iraq is doing.
The "democractic" government of Al-Maliki is side-show, a big colorful distraction to make seem some real progress has been made.
They live differently, live with it. Don't try and change it.

Who is the US to force democracy down their throats with a spoon? If it is truly a system of government for the people by the people than the people alone decide they want it. Not some tyrannical Texan, 10,000 miles away and his bunch of "yes"-men.
I don't remember the Iraqis being asked if they would like to live under US occupation for the next 10 years?

Open your mind. Differences are inevitable, they are not reasons to hate, fear and attack one another.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 06:46 AM
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reply to post by LOYAL
 

As we know of course many have had heroes. Like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Pinochet - that damn Chilean General dictator, others in Argentina, Suharto in Indonesia, Ethiopia, Angola, now in Sudan, Myanmar and Zimbabwe, etc, etc, etc., even little Pitcairn Island. To say nothing of the marauding hordes further back into history!
Yes Israel is a warmonger; both the Jewish and Christian doctrines tell it to be so.
Just as the Islamic ones do so for Arabs.
Now this is the very point - they are all Arabs with differing religious cults having arisen. Even the western world culture has to admit that its basic religion, Christianity was developed by an Arab.
Before we all turn to eastern doctrinal salvation we should also bear in mind the at times, very extreme and somewhat questionable Hindu and Buddhist behaviors over time - well in relation to current often stated "morality values" anyway.
Homo sapiens and his predecessors have always been a warmonger, by invading another person or their space in much the same way as other planetary creatures do and do get.
A point to reflect is that in the recent earth timeline of approx. 250,000 years of humanoid organization, it has only been in the last 100 years that we have begun to consider our main procreate partner, the female as a part equal in mankind’s rightful place on Earth. Even this is much distorted in its acceptance in general and debatable as to whether it is by the greater majority of the world population, including when it is written in law.
Perhaps we all need to take a deep breath, rethink and restart.
When was it said that Nubiru is arriving?!



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 07:08 AM
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reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira
 


Who are you talking about?


the point to remember here is that a nation who is practically in a state of war every single year and who has a clear hatred for her neighbors and a disregard for International sentiment and the conventions of warfare, is more than likely to use Nuclear Weapons at some point.


Sounds like Iran to me, or the entire Muslim world. In fact, where ever Muslims go they create war, look what Muslims are doing in Europe, Canada, India, and the U.S.. Israel as a nation has far more friends and is far more respected than the nations of the Muslim world.

Israel accidentally kills civilians in response to attacks from their enemies, while Muslims intentionally kill innocent civilians, when they are not busy beating and killing their women.

Iran has great wealth thanks to the U.S. which located, tapped, and set up the oil wells that drive Iran's economy and the rest of the Middle East for that matter. Plumbing, electricity, television, computers, the combustion engine, all products of the west. Don't forget that many Jewish scientists helped a great deal in developing this technology as well. Since Islam took over the Middle East, the area has grown more and more backwards, and fallen further and further behind the rest of the world. While once the Middle East lead the world in many areas of technology, the only thing they lead the world in today is exporting terrorism. What a shame.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 



Sounds like Iran to me, or the entire Muslim world.


Gee that's not hawkish at all...

When has Iran, EVER in it's modern history been at war?
Let me answer that for you, since you need everything spelled out in crystal... NEVER.

If my memory serves me correctly the Arab-Palestinian conflict was started by Israel's conception, Jews and Muslims were living in relative peace and security until the UN & British came along and decided to set up a Jewish utopia right over Arab land.
The Iran-Iraq war was started by Iraq.
The first Gulf War was started by Iraq.
The second Gulf War as started by the US.

Until you bring up some evidence or hard facts to dispute my arguments I'm not bothering with you. I've seen your posts on every topic relating to Muslims and your nothing more than a prejudiced, bigot, who brings the same crap where ever he goes.

"Muslims spread violence where ever they go, look at the US, Europe, etc..."
Blah, blah, blah how many times have you said that line?

Find a new hobby mate... because your just not good at Islam-bashing.


[edit on 14/5/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

Did I say they did? Inspections are not over obviously, but even ElBaradei has claimed there is little evidence so far that Iran is seriously pursuing Nuclear Weapons:
The IAEA can only inspect what Iran Shows them. They cannot do inspections on "undeclared" sites. After being found out the first time, I am confident that Iran will keep any nuclear weapons enrichment to secret undeclared sites. Iran will not allow spot inspections of such potential sites.








Your exaggerating this out to be some major turning point in US-Iran relations. Underground Nuclear facilities?


WHAT!?!? So Secret undeclared nuclear enrichment facilities mean nothing to you? Sorry I do not trust the Iranians without verification. And their history proves that they have concealed things in the past, their word is simply not good enough.


It doesn't mean these are super-hardened bunkers focused on produced secret Icbms packed with Uranium.
I beg to differ. The Natanz facility is built under, if I remember correctly, 17 feet of reinforced concrete with soil on top of that. They are most defiantly hardened facilities, going far beyond what is needed.





Lol...I like how you swiftly dodge all my other claims which proved too tough for you to try and even discredit.
I will look back, sorry to not reply to everything, if you want an specific answer plz feel free to respond.


What difference does it make who started the Arab-Israeli conflict, the point to remember here is that a nation who is practically in a state of war every single year and who has a clear hatred for her neighbors and a disregard for International sentiment and the conventions of warfare, is more than likely to use Nuclear Weapons at some point.


It's a really big difference, as it separates aggressors from defenders. Israel's nuclear deterrent is just that, a deterrent to war. If someone attacks you, knowing full well what capabilities you have to respond with, then shame on them for starting it.



Israel is the one to be concerned about, not Iran.
Israel is the one committing war crimes, "accidentally" killing civilians and freely bombing Gaza and Lebanon back into the stone ages:


No offense, but when has Gaza ever been "out" of the Stone age?.

Lebanon while, battered, was hardly put into the stone age. If you keep company with groups like Hezbollah who attack other nations from your borders, don't be surprised and outraged when they in turn get attacked.



If they can kill 20 civilians in order to nab one Insurgent they'll do it, that's the scary thing about Israel, their disproportionate use of force.
So, if terrorist groups surround themselves with women and children like cowards, they should not be attacked? Blame Hezbollah for hiding behind skirts and civilians as a reprehensible tactic.


For me it's a no-brainer, it's like saying who would you rather give a Nuclear Reactor to? A man who dreads his neighbors with a passion or a man who's been passively sitting on the fence for the majority of his life.


No brainer for sure if you think Iran is a country who intentions are innocent. I disagree with you.






That's it?


Uh, yeah. I am sure Iran's covert enrichment plan was deemed in their best interest as well, or else they would have declared it. I don't get what the problem is, every country does look out for itself first and foremost.


Don't be so narrow-minded, US Foreign Policy may like to forget history, but Iranians have not forgotten how they suffered in the past due to the consequences of America's hegemony
I am aware of the past, there are bad relations between our nations, still the demographics of Iran are changing and they are finding the Mullahs and their form of government lacking in basic freedoms and individual rights. There is a good sized reform/moderate opposition that would like to have better relations with the West. Pretty messed up that one of the worlds largest oil producers has to import gas. Even the Mullahs are disappointed with the President of Iran's economic policy.



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by SoundFX
 


Heres the thing, if Iran and Israel go to war, many Islamic nations will help Iran destroy Israel. So Israel will need the West's help, but Iran knows that the U.S. will get involved and its allies. The list goes on. Its like pawns on a Chess board. Wait... who is moving the pieces?



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by Trams
reply to post by SoundFX
 


Heres the thing, if Iran and Israel go to war, many Islamic nations will help Iran destroy Israel.


You mean many Islamic nations will help Iran [attempt] to destroy Israel. The outcome of that battle is already quite decided. Israel will withstand all attempts by the Muslim world to destroy her. They may end up as dust but not Israel.


So Israel will need the West's help, but Iran knows that the U.S. will get involved and its allies. The list goes on.


Israel will have no need of help by the U.S.


Its like pawns on a Chess board. Wait... who is moving the pieces?


That is a very perceptive question; The answer, of course, is God.



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