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posted on May, 15 2008 @ 02:06 PM
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So in conclusion a virgin has had very limited exposure to the modern day illnesses of western society. This could be someone who has been to church, but has rejected religion in light of it's false teachings. And in the persuit of truth.

Many people in America keep doing the same things without any reguard to the consequences of their submission, tolerance and/or ignorance. That is the snare that traps many of us. That have turned a blind eye towards the truth and what is just.




posted on May, 16 2008 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by UFOBountyHunter

Of that 144,000, only half or less of them, will continue the Human Race.



I thought the second coming or the calling to heaven would mean the end of human kind as we know it. We would all then be in heaven or wherever. Someone please clarify for me.

If there was going to be any amount of people left to 'continue' the human race wouldn't that be as a result of a Noahs food type situation to 'cleanse' the world? (And before anyone starts, I said flood type situation. I know there was the promise of not getting flooded again but thats not to say God could use another method of mass murder.

[edit on 16/5/2008 by VIKINGANT]



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 02:23 AM
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reply to post by VIKINGANT
 


The Bible doesn't actually say we all go off to heaven for eternity, it talks over and over again of God's kingdom coming to Earth, with Christ as king of kings, and after 1000 years it says that even the new jerusalem, God's tabernacle will come down out of heaven and he will be with us for eternity....

Daniel 2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and broke them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

(then daniel explains what this stone that "fills the whole earth" represents)

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

REVELATION 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

God didn't create an infinite universe to simply use one planet, and then whisk us all off to heaven. The Bible says God created all of creation to be inhabited,

Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

and it says that it hasn't even entered into the mind of man what God has installed for him.

1Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

It says that in the resurrection we shall be like him (referring to Jesus).

1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Jesus says that when we are born again to spirit that we can move like the wind.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit

Imagine being able to move through all of existance, to explore the universe without even the need of spacecraft, to have powers of creation, to repair destroyed and battered worlds. Now that is only some of the joys and possibilities that our feeble minds can grasp, imagine now what the things we can't. As the Bible says, the trials, pains and trouble we have in this limited life are merely nothing in comparison to the joys and pleasures we will have for eternity in the next....

Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.


[edit on 17/5/08 by doctorex]

[edit on 17/5/08 by doctorex]



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by B3...
I simpatize US, specialy scientific approach to study everything in variety of areas. But what confuse me there wasn't archived any experiment with time travel before 2003. Old time travel used cicles of time to travel in 20 years ciclus. Genesis descibed use of 386 pc which dates after 1995 and above.
It's clear that Nostradamus was useing 2 CD's.
Here he shows to the quin his "Mirrace mirror"


Please elaborate. This is very interesting indeed...

Edit: Ah I see Tre åt de/De sex/dis-x reading it out in Norwegian spells out the sins by the tree of wisdom - a woman giving an egg to a child, an unclean thing. Then what if Man is Apple, let's say IIci, being the tree of life that has a nearly endless clock, due to underpaid workers at the Lillith plant -- Microsoft, while the development of Adam's system was more elaborate and opened for more than one solution. Are we really governed by women in this life?

[edit on 17/5/2008 by Neo Christian Mystic]



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 05:39 PM
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The (144000) stars shall shine like the rightious. When God puts all the lights on and the dragons and his angels in the pagan Zodiak fall from heaven, and the Christian Mazzaroth is reestablished showing the complete constellations; in the North: the Father, the Son and the Son of Man and the Giraffe aka Javan among others. Just wait, you'll be terrified when all the dark forces in the world is unleached, when the children og God and the children of Bilial and all the prophets are in a Great Jihad and sacrifices are made to honor gods and satans and the wild beasts of the field. On Zion stands the 144000 together with the Lamb of God, the Lion of Judah, their king and father. It's strange but that is how the story goes.



posted on May, 17 2008 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by runetang
No, you should bother, you may be one of them.

This isn't meant literal, its' meant symbolically. The tribes of Israel, especially the 10 Nothern Tribes, were swept to the wind by the Assyrian exile. What does this mean? It means they were spread all across the Earth in the ensuing centuries. I would not be surprised if this is how so many Jewish people ended up in Russia, the Ukraine, Poland, etc. Perhaps they migrated across the Black Sea, or through the Caucasus Mts after the fall of Assyria.

The concept is, there are no literal 144,000 with pure blood of the tribes. Those tribes intermingled with other people and no longer are purely discernible.
...


What is important to remember is that not one of the 11 tribes who represent the "House of Israel" in the scriptures was ever "Jewish". Any attempt to understand prophecy concerning the 144,000 by application to todays "Jewish nation" is doomed to result in a grotesque twisting of reality and false conclusion.

Davids original kingdom split into two factions over issues of taxation and evolved into two independent nations.

One of these, the nation (or "house") of Israel referenced throughout the OT means those of the northern nation with its capital in Samaria. These who were taken away circa 730bc to Assyria and beyond predated the Babylonian empire which became the regional power a couple of centuries later and gave rise to the modern "Jews" meaning those of the southern nation who survived the Assyrian campaigns to later submit to the Babylonian captivity and who now follow a religious "tradition" developed during their time in Babylon. The oral "traditions" were later codified and are now the basis for interpreting the scriptures for them in the same way that the parallel "christian" church interprets the scriptures for its followers today.

The OT refers to the earlier captivity of the northern nation as the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" and Jesus Christ stated unambiguously that he was "sent" to look for the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" and to restore a sense of "new" identity to them in the lands of their exile. At that time in Jerusalem there was a minor element remaining of the tribe of Judah and some of Benjamin (eg Paul) and associated tribal desendents remaining around Jerusalem. However, the rulers and "men of Jerusalem" were not Israelites in the main, for example Herod the amazingly talented architect and builder of cities who murdered his Jewess wife for calling him a "half breed jew" (meaning not Jewish) during a domestic spat.

Those who would like to investigate the 144,000 should consider researching it within the context of the scriptures and without recourse to the "tradition" of contemporary religious groups. The 144,000 can not be found within the modern jewish nation but have to be located within, and members of, those nations otherwise called the "goi".



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by doctorex
 


As always, an answer to one question leads to more questions.

In 1 Corinthians it says “it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body” Does this mean “Heaven on Earth” will be populated by our spirits/souls? Or will we return in the flesh? Either way, there will not be room for us all. We are getting over crowded now without all of those who have gone before us unless of course there are only 144000 people. I am not being smart here. I think I may be missing something vital in your explanation.

The bible also talks of ‘the Kingdom of heaven’ and Jesus ‘ascending into heaven’ as a destination or somewhere different to where we are now. This does not suggest to me that we will all remain on Earth for eternity.


Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.


Is it not inhabited now? It does not indicate that it will remain inhabited for ever.



posted on May, 19 2008 @ 01:47 AM
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If he has Made the world to be inhabited, then he Has made the world to be inhabited.



posted on May, 19 2008 @ 05:14 AM
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Originally posted by VIKINGANT
As always, an answer to one question leads to more questions.

In 1 Corinthians it says “it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body” Does this mean “Heaven on Earth” will be populated by our spirits/souls? Or will we return in the flesh? Either way, there will not be room for us all. We are getting over crowded now without all of those who have gone before us unless of course there are only 144000 people. I am not being smart here. I think I may be missing something vital in your explanation.

The bible also talks of ‘the Kingdom of heaven’ and Jesus ‘ascending into heaven’ as a destination or somewhere different to where we are now. This does not suggest to me that we will all remain on Earth for eternity.


Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.


Is it not inhabited now? It does not indicate that it will remain inhabited for ever.


Firstly, I know you are not being smart, I can tell from your words your questions are genuine. The hebrew words for heavens and earth mean more than simply our planet earth and the sky above us, they refer also the ground in general, and outter space, where the celestial bodies revolve. How much solid ground and worlds are out there in the heavens that are currently uninhabited? It's infinit. In Genesis when it says that God creates the heavens and the earth, thats what this is talking about, not just our planet, which we call Earth, and I'm sure there will be plenty enough room. The word heaven is tricky, because the Bible refers to 3 heavens, firstly the sky where the birds roam, being limited to the atmosphere, secondly the heavens where the celestial bodies revolve (outer space), and the third heaven as in the throne of God...

Gn 1:14 . And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Gn 1:20 . And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

2Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such a one caught up to the third heaven.

It is this third heaven, the throne of God, where I believe Jesus ascended to, since he rose to the righthand of God the Father.

As for the 144,000, I believe they will receive their spirit bodies at the return of Christ, during the first resurrection, and there will be those seperate from this 144,000 who live on into the new world ruled by Christ and the 144,000, who will just live out whats left of their lives and continue the cycle of life and death on the earth with their offspring for another 1000 years. These people too will die, but they, and the rest of the dead who have ever lived, live not again until the 1000 years are ended....

Rev 20:4 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

I believe the 144,000 are the firstfruits with Christ, the first harvest symbolised by the feast of firstfruits, what we today call Pentecost.

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

If their are firstfruits, then there must be more to come later. After the 1000 years those deemed worthy at the judgement then take part in the latter harvest, where they too will recieve spirit bodies and enter the kingdom of God.

But just to make clear, I don't think we will be limited to our planet for all of eternity, I believe the universe was created for a reason, to be inhabited just as Isaiah 45:18 says, and as for heaven as in the throne of God, God says he is coming down out of heaven to be with us, we are not going there.....

REVELATION 21
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Also just wanted to point out that the first verse above doesn't mean a literal new planet earth, as in new from scratch with the planet completely destroyed and a new one created in it's place, but a refreshed, renewed, healed earth, like somebody who has a life changing event may call himself a "new man", but is still physically the same flesh and blood, though quite different.


[edit on 19/5/08 by doctorex]



posted on May, 20 2008 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by doctorex
 



and there will be those seperate from this 144,000 who live on into the new world ruled by Christ and the 144,000, who will just live out whats left of their lives and continue the cycle of life and death on the earth with their offspring for another 1000 years. These people too will die, but they, and the rest of the dead who have ever lived, live not again until the 1000 years are ended....


I have a few more questions on this. I hope you don’t get tired of it…..
Who exactly then ARE the 144000and how are they determined? If they will inhabit the Earth, do they also repopulate it and will those offspring also get to go to heaven?

What happens to those not amongst the 144000?



As for the 144,000, I believe they will receive their spirit bodies at the return of Christ, during the first resurrection

What is the first resurrection? Was that when he emerged from the grave? Then it would have already happened before John wrote Revelation? Or did you mean the first resurrection of people? If that is the case, I thought there was only one round not multiple?


Also just wanted to point out that the first verse above doesn't mean a literal new planet earth, as in new from scratch with the planet completely destroyed and a new one created in it's place, but a refreshed, renewed, healed earth, like somebody who has a life changing event may call himself a "new man", but is still physically the same flesh and blood, though quite different.


I was always taught that the ‘new heaven and new earth’ was more or less a symbolic way of saying a ‘different’ heaven and earth. One unlike what John was used to. Since it was a vision this may have been the only way he could at the time describe it.


1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.


Does this not just refer to the second coming of Christ? We have always been told that he would return “God says he is coming down out of heaven to be with us” before he takes us all to be with him in Heaven not necessarily to stay here.


[edit on 21/5/2008 by VIKINGANT]



posted on May, 21 2008 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by VIKINGANT
I have a few more questions on this. I hope you don’t get tired of it…..
Who exactly then ARE the 144000and how are they determined? If they will inhabit the Earth, do they also repopulate it and will those offspring also get to go to heaven?


The 144,000 are the first fruits, those who God has worked with over the last 6000 years, they have not defiled themselves, those who stayed on the path, they are those who take part in the first resurrection into spirit (or change into if still alive at this point) at the return of Christ, this is why the second death has no power over them, because from this point on they are now immortal. The are now born of the spirit, they do not procreate, they rule with Christ during the 1000 years.


What happens to those not amongst the 144000?


Most will die during the plagues of the tribulation. Those who do survive the tribulation, through repentence and turning to God, will live on into the kingdom of God on Earth, but still in physical bodies. These will continue to populate the Earth, living under the rule of Christ and the 144,000. at the end of their lives they too will die, but everyone who is not part of the 144,000 will be raised at the second resurrection, after the 1000 year reign, then the events and great judgement described in Revelation chapter 20 will take place. Those deemed worthy, and have their names written in the book of life at this point will recieve their spirit bodies, the rest go into the lake of fire.


What is the first resurrection? Was that when he emerged from the grave? Then it would have already happened before John wrote Revelation? Or did you mean the first resurrection of people? If that is the case, I thought there was only one round not multiple?


1CORINTHIANS 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

REVELATION 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

1 Corinthians says there will be a resurrection at the last trump, which is the last trumpet of the seventh seal of the tribulation, at the return of Christ, and the book of revelation, when describing those who have died during the tribulation, are noted as being among those of the first resurection, so this must be the first resurection, those resurrected at the return of Christ. After the 1000 year reign of Christ, another resurection is noted in Revealtion 20, after 1000 years.




1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.


Does this not just refer to the second coming of Christ? We have always been told that he would return “God says he is coming down out of heaven to be with us” before he takes us all to be with him in Heaven not necessarily to stay here.


This event is talking about after the 1000 year reign of Christ, and after the great judgement, since it is talking about no more pain, death and suffering etc, and there are events noted even after the return of Christ of death etc. For one there will be a lot of death at the return of Christ as he and his saints fight those gathered against him at his coming (Rev 10:11-21) and the gog and magog war when satan is let loose again after the 1000 years (Rev 20:7-9). I know we have always been taught that we all go back to heaven, but that in fact just a tradition started by the Catholic church. It doesn't actually say that in scripture. It says God is coming down out of heaven to be with us, and it doesn't say anything after that about God taking us back to heaven. One of the key verses they like to twist is the phrase "in my fathers house are many mansions" (John 14:2), but the word mansions in the greek is abode, the same word used later in the chapter talking about God making his abode in us (verse 23), and that is why in God's house there is many abodes, because there is many that he dwells in, and in turn, through christ, we dwell in him.

JOHN 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

This is what Christ was talking about when he said he was going to prepare a place for us in the father's house. The house of God was the temple, which is now the church (1Corinthians 3:16-17). His sacrifice for sin would cleanse us, alowing God to dwell in us, and us in him. It is not talking about us literally going to heaven, and when you read the whole chapter in context, you can easily see that. I know most people believe we go to heaven directly at death, but to believe that you have to turn a blind eye to all the verses that say we return to dust at death and await the resurrection, either at the return of Christ, or 1000 years later.

[edit on 21/5/08 by doctorex]



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 05:43 PM
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I haven't read every single reply, so I don't know if what I'm going to say has already been said.Regarding the Jehovah's Witnesses belief that only 144,000 go to heaven: Many people erroneously assume that this means that ONLY 144,000 are saved.JW's don't believe that only 144,000 are saved.They just believe that the rest of "righteous" or "saved" will live in paradise here on earth.They believe the way earth is now will be destroyed.They don't believe that the literal earth itself will be destroyed, but rather, the present system will be destroyed.Jw's believe that after Armageddon, there will be no more political systems,no more wars, crime, famine, poverty,disease,no more growing old, no more death,no more suffering of any kind.Earth will be a paradise, as it was meant to be, according to their beliefs.So, just to reiterate, JW's don't believe that ONLY 144,000 get saved, but rather, that only 144, 000 of possible billions that ARE saved go to heaven.

Now, some may say this belief is dumb or "wrong', but one could say the same thing about the beliefs of any other Christian sect, and also about the beliefs of any other religion.



posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 05:07 AM
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This is what dont get. Heaven is preached as being the 'reward' for living right and for christians believng John 3:16. Is heaven a con by the church or is it misunderstood or misrepresented?

If only so many go to heaven and the rest live on the 'New Earth' yet others say the new eath IS heaven. This is sounding very Chrisdalphian to me. I am also starting to understand more how the Christadelphians logic works (but stil not agree Eugene). There is no heaven or hell. If you are good you continue on earth if not, when you die that is the end of the line....?
I would like to hear from a JW a more indepth view on this if I can. Or even (if there are any out there willing to admit it) a Christadelphian.



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 06:25 PM
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The 144k have a mark on their forehead and awaken to their true identity at some point in their lives. Once all of them do,they will use music to herald the imminent paradigm shift.(singing the new song)What is the shape of the mark(seal)? ; that's the question.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by VIKINGANT
 

The angel has sealed all the faithful servants of God from Israel. The number is an absolute number, no more addition to that catagory.
No one who is denying the Lordship of Jesus Christ would be called a servant of God.
No more person would be called a servant of God for the sole reason he is a faithful Israelite.
The angel tells to other four angels that he has not completed his mission of sealing.
If you are a servant of God you would be sealed by the angel.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
What is the shape of the mark(seal)? ; that's the question.


Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

The seal of God that the 144000 is sealed with is the Holy Spirit.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


I myself did not go through all the post either but read many of them I'm not sure how if you guys are just looking for proof in the bible with the explanation in the scriptures of the bible. Not getting to detailed and deep into it JW's do not believe in the fact that everyone who dies goes to heaven. Once you are dead you are "DEAD" no after life,... heaven ,... or soul that remains in any way or form floating or spirit or ghost anywhere. They do however believe in "Paradise" wich will come after armagedon. Armagedon will finaly come when The goverment sais "NO MORE RELIGION" and tries to ban all religion! (a small part of many of the profecies JW's believe in) finaly when the JW's are targeted because of their faith and their "COURAGE" to keep practicing their beliefs then that is when "Jehova" will bring armagedon. Those who stay faithfull to him will make it to the paradise. Now the 144000 are those that have been chosen by god to reside in heaven only they will resurect (if already died) in heaven and there are only a few left on earth. it is not simbolic it is literaly a number. No else knows who they are. Only they themselves know. It is between them and God. Every year JW's conmemorate Jesus death called "The Conmemoration" there they remember the sacrifice he gave for us. At a some point they pass a simbolic wine wich is to represent Jesus blood he shed and a bread type to represent I believe its his flesh. In no way or form are you to eat or drink from the cup or plate....UNLESS.... you are part of the 144000. That is the only way to ever know one of them. They are not to talk about it to anyone or brag in any way or form. It is said that the last remaining right now are quiet old. and only a hand full remain. I hope this gives some insite or gives at least some clearity on this subject.



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 11:56 AM
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The real point of understanding the bible is understianding what parts are literal and what parts are symbolic, this is where the disagreements come in.

And so is the 144,000 literal or symbolic, is it only Jews, or does it consist of gentiles too? After many years of study I personally have come to an answer.

1) This number is literal, as only these 144,000 rule with Christ, no other angels do. And these ones only come from the earth they used to be humans.

2) This number consists of Jews and Gentiles, although Jews could have filled the entire number up if they hadn't rejected the Christ in the 1st century. As God's chosen people they had first shot at these spots, but most of them messed up, except for a few like the apostles. And the women Jesus first appeared to after his death. Also anybody who died before Jesus died is disqualified from being a part of the 144,000.

The rest of us, I include myself in this, don't have a choice we will be living on earth. Billions of dead will be returning to this earth good and bad in the future, they are all just sleeping in death right now, in God's memory. He won't be bringing any of them back until this planet is transformed into a much better place than it is today.



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 01:03 PM
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A brief comment if I may; as I am only a reader here.

I refer to II Corinthians 5:6 -8 which reads, "to be absent from the body is to (and) be present with the Lord.

A little backround.....My Mother was a student of anything which was bible related. I once asked how people who lived in the 'end times' would be able to discern the Lord, from the anti-christ. Her reply was that "If you pinch yourself and can feel it; you are NOT in the presence of the Lord."

Many people, including even 'devout' Christian's, will be deceived.

Another belief that she shared, was that "Christian's WILL, indeed, go through the tribulation."

I thank you for allowing me to share this with you.



posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 01:21 PM
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This is how I see the role of the 144,000.

In the bible this class is given the authority to rule as priests and kings. A priest can delare someone clean and a king can order an execution.
The bible says these things about human defects: Everyone is tried by his own weakness. There is no trial that is inescapable. A person is tried by only what is common to man.

I think the 144,000 represent the sprectum of weakness that is common to man. One member of the 144,000 who had your common weakness will hear your case, as to being guilty or innocent, and present it to the Christ for trial. The result will be life, death or rehabilitation. This would be for all that had died in the past and for all those that are currently living, depending on when Judgement day gets here.

No one would survive if the Law was just Black and White, so to speak. God yielded to Abraham about Sodom. God yielded to Lot about Zoar. If God is always right why does he listen to imperfect humans?

Because God is Love.



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