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144000

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posted on May, 9 2008 @ 06:16 AM
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I know this is an age old question and I have recived many answers from mant religions now I ask the elite. Who are the 144000 and what does it mean?
According to JWs that is the total number who will get into heaven. Does this mean I shouldn't bother since more than that has already passed or is it like a lottery and I should try harder? Or is the number symbolic and I still have a good chance?




posted on May, 9 2008 @ 06:48 AM
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No, you should bother, you may be one of them.

This isn't meant literal, its' meant symbolically. The tribes of Israel, especially the 10 Nothern Tribes, were swept to the wind by the Assyrian exile. What does this mean? It means they were spread all across the Earth in the ensuing centuries. I would not be surprised if this is how so many Jewish people ended up in Russia, the Ukraine, Poland, etc. Perhaps they migrated across the Black Sea, or through the Caucasus Mts after the fall of Assyria.

The concept is, there are no literal 144,000 with pure blood of the tribes. Those tribes intermingled with other people and no longer are purely discernible.

So this means one of two things:

1) 144,000 is really 1.44 million. or 14.4 million, or 144 million, or even 1.44 billion. These people would be the ones that have any amount of Israelite genes or blood remaining in them from the original tribes who were dispersed through Eastern Europe, then Western Europe, and also throughout Western and Central Asia, taking other cultures customs as their own. Needless to say, millions of people unknowingly have Israelite genes of some manner.

2) This is a total symbolic representation of God's chosen, God's elect, the least defiled, the most pure people on Earth at that time, in their action and in their thoughts and devotion. These will be risen as God's army or shall we say.. his chief officers. This is the first resurrection. The second resurrection occurs after the battle of Armageddon and involves a Judgment of all spirits. If you end up being one of the 144,000, rejoice, because your Judgment is not upon your head, you have been found pure in the sight of the Lord.

But no, its definitely not literally 144,000 male, virgin, Jewish boys.



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 07:10 AM
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The 144000 won't go to Heaven, but will be the first fruit of the new Israel lead by the Lamb. The 144000 will repopulate Israel and reistitute the whole twelve tribe nation. Today only two tribes are present in Israel, and most of them are Kazar proselutes, belonging to the tribe of Judah.

An interresting sidenote to the number 144000 and them being dressed in white... The Great Pyramid was once "dressed" with 144000 marble like white stones that were glued together making the whole construction waterproof. However these stones were removed and used by the Arabs in construction work on buildings in the area.

According to ancient tradition there were 144000 stars in the Mazzaroth (the Hebrew Zodiac) within 72 constellations. The 72 constellations were the souls of Adam and the animals and trees of Eden. Adam became a living soul/constellation after God breathed his spirit through Adam's nostrils.



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 08:08 AM
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heaven is not the only hope.

isaiah 65:[17] For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
[18] But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
[19] And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
[20] There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
[21] And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
[22] They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
[23] They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
[24] And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
[25] The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

jesus talked about a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous

john 5:[28] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

jesus talked also about having 2 flocks. (those who go to heaven, those resurrected on earth)

john 19; [15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
# [16] And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

luke 12:[32] Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

so this ¨little flock¨ recieve the kingdom.

Rev 5:[9] And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
[10] And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

rev 4:[10] The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

cross reference that with

rev 1:[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

rev 14:[3] And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

so we see, that the ¨little flock¨, the 24 elders, and the 144,000. are the same group. they are ¨the first begotten of the dead¨. redeemed from earth to be in heaven to rule as kings and priests.

it makes sense that they would be a limited number being as they are kings, it also makes sense that a majority would be ressurected to earth (after all, what is a king without subjects)

is the 144,000 a literal number?

i lean towards yes for several reasons

1. 24 elders is already a symbolic number for this group, why would the group be numbered twice, unless one number was literal and the other was symbolic?

2. it´s not the literal tribes of isreal since the names of the tribes differ.

3. first century christians were of the belief that they would have a heavenly resurrection (early congregation numbered in the thousands. (they were also the ¨first begotten¨)

other things to note

the great multitude that make it through the tribulation are innumerable.

rev 7:[9] After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

this great multitude is not the 144,000 because they are not mentioned as being part of the heavenly isreal. and unlike the 144,000, they cant be numbered. however the scripture mentions they are in good standing.

these are the ones that make the majority of those saved. they are also the ones spoken of in isaiah 65



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

the great multitude that make it through the tribulation are innumerable.

rev 7:[9] After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

this great multitude is not the 144,000 because they are not mentioned as being part of the heavenly isreal. and unlike the 144,000, they cant be numbered. however the scripture mentions they are in good standing.

these are the ones that make the majority of those saved. they are also the ones spoken of in isaiah 65



The great multitude described by John are the 144,000. Notice it says that no man could number them (which means count them), but of the 144,000 John doesn't count them, he hears their number, before he sees them.

REVELATION 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

At the time of this sealing, many, if not most of these, would still be in the grave, because the resurrection at the end of the tribulation has not yet taken place. John is told the number of them that were sealed, and in the very next verses John sees them, a multitude that no man could count. Imagine a man trying to count 144,000 people? That is just how John describes them. Because they are of both physical and spiritual Israel, they are of of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues etc.



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by doctorex

The great multitude described by John are the 144,000. Notice it says that no man could number them (which means count them), but of the 144,000 John doesn't count them, he hears their number, before he sees them.


that makes no sense.

there is nothing that even suggests that the great multitude is the same as the 144,000



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 09:06 AM
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If you got the number 144,000 then how could you not know the answer? The answer follows it. It’s the tribes of Israel.

Also remember this is DURING THE TRIBULATION PERIOD! Has nothing to do with the Gentiles or those who have already died. Only the Jews!


Revelation 7
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Look at verse 9 it bears repeating:

9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by Shar
Also remember this is DURING THE TRIBULATION PERIOD! Has nothing to do with the Gentiles or those who have already died. Only the Jews!


then where are the tribes of Dan and Ephraim? if it was refering to literal jews, wouldnt it include the 2 tribes?



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 09:12 AM
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nope go back reread the old testament they are not in there
sin very bad happen they got replaced



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by Shar
nope go back reread the old testament they are not in there
sin very bad happen they got replaced


Rev 5:[9] And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
[10] And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

spiritual isreal doesnt equal literal isreal (who reject jesus as messiah)

the illustration of the marriage feast illustrates it.
matt 22:[1] And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,[2] The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

marriage feast is the heavenly hope, this marriage is also mentioned in revelation.

[3] And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

isrealites were god´s chosen nation. the invitation was first extended to them (in this case you are correct)

[4] Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.[5] But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:[6] And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

the jews did not recieve the invitation kindly. they called for jesus´ death and even killed many early christians. paul (saul at the time) was one of them. even though some jews individually accepted the invitation, as a whole they rejected it.

[7] But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

God and jesus both prophecied the destruction of jerusalem and of jewish worship. it was furfilled in 70 a.d.

[8] Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.[9] Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.[10] So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

the heveanly calling was then offered to the gentiles



[edit on 9-5-2008 by miriam0566]



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 10:02 AM
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what does this have to do with it?

Your talking two different things. The Bible is very clear.



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 10:02 AM
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sorry double post

[edit on 9-5-2008 by miriam0566]



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by Shar
what does this have to do with it?

Your talking two different things. The Bible is very clear.


the 144,000 make up a spiritual isreal. not a literal one. they a people who go to heaven when they die but are not necessarily literal isrealites

yes the bible is very clear



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 10:12 AM
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No reread it is without a doubt the tribes those totals when added even equals 144,000.

Once again this is during tribulation period and they are only getting sealed so not to be slaughter during this time period. That is it. Till the time is right.

These are those who will die during tribulation but also goes to heaven. See the Jews don't live exactly the way they should. Very few of them. So this is those.

Theres a lot to it. You cant read one verse or one chapter you have to read them all.

let me clean this up a little bit.

ok, you have to know that during this time period christians will be fault against or killed. ( you see this today including all these fema camps coming up everywhere) again during the tribulation. Not there yet. the first 3 and half years.

then later you have the 1000 year reign with Christ. It says that those who were beheaded during the tribulations are the only ones who will walk with Him during this time.

Thats Revelation 20 4
20 6 says they will be the priest of God. whom do you thinking their teaching? They are teaching the 144,000. The one's who rejected Him the first time.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.




[edit on 9-5-2008 by Shar]



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 10:13 AM
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I don't know if there is any merit to this, but I remember from Another post here that 144,000 is the minimum number of people needed to ensure genetic diversity in procreation.

I remember seeing it somewhere else but forget where atm.



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by VIKINGANT
 


Judging from the replies here, my guess would be that the bible is literal truth unless it's not.

144,000 virgin Jewish men. That's what the book says. 'Course, the book also states that Jesus is going to kill all the Jews. So I dunno.

I'm sure that's "symbolic" too.



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 11:11 AM
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Misinterpretation #1 - Only a little flock of 144,000 go to heaven to rule with Christ & they are born again as spiritual sons of God.

Contrary to the Jehovah’s Witnesses belief, the 144,000 does not refer to a little flock of 144,000 go to heaven to rule with Christ. It refers to the 144,000 orders of Holy Ghosts who exist within the Spirit Realm.

Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

Revelation 14:1 [The Lamb and the 14,000] Then I looked, and there on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with Him were 144,000 who had His name and His Father’s name written on their foreheads.

Revelation 14:3 They sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, but no one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

The 144,000 Holy Ghost orders are already sealed because they have passed over and crossed over into Yahweh’s light and they are in service to Father and Christ. They are on MountZion, in the Spirit Realm – which is where MountZion exists. They have already been redeemed.

To compound the fact that this is a false teaching, I must point out that in knowing that Yahweh is a fair and righteous God, why would only 144,000 from all of creation be permitted to rule with Christ? Of all the millions that currently inhabit the earth, not to mention those who have already made the transition from death to spiritual life, how would that possibly be fair? Christ himself said that Salvation was open to everyone, Jew and Gentile alike. Those who walk in His Ways and believe, who accept Him as their Savior and Redeemer have an equal chance at obtaining the Kingdom Promise of one day living in Christ's Kingdom and the opportunity of obtaining Eternal Life.


This is only a small portion of the explination given, as it's very in depth. To view it in it's entirety, visit: This Website

[edit on 9-5-2008 by ReginaAdonnaAaron]



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 12:52 PM
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Very interesting thread. As somebody earlier has said the virgins are from tribes I believe there are twelve tribes. As for the word "Virgin" a child would make a good candidate, because a child (dependending on age and other variables) has not been taught or mislead by the church and is also literally a virgin.

On the opposite side of that token, I have been taught many lies by the church. Lucky for me even this has been forced upon me in my youth. I never really bought in to the lies and soon as somebody gave me a choice whether to go to church or not I refused and haven't gone to church ever since. But more recently I have investigated the church and the lies they teach, many of which are designed to lead us away from God. Now I am well aware of what to look out for.

I am not a virgin, but perhaps from one of the tribes. That is my interpretation.



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 01:12 PM
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Also interesting when considering the DNA database that has been created, the feminist movement, domestic violence and parental custody policies in the United States.

It kind of ties in with the conspiracy against manhood thread as well as laws that most people don't know about considering marriage.



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 01:14 PM
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The 144K are all virgin, male, Jewish converts to Christianity, 12K from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. The “Great Multitude” are the rest of the Christians who also are saved, but are not the first fruits of the chosen people that accept Christ. The importance of the “First Fruits” is additionally shown in that the disciples only converted Jews up until the stoning of Stephen by the Sanhedrin. That the “Great Multitude” are the rest of the Christians should be obvious in the reference made to both Palm Sunday, and cleaning their clothes in the blood of the lamb. For those who follow other styles of interpretation besides Futurism, the tribulation period is longer then a 7 year period of time, and most believe that it began around 70AD. So a person that is a Christian 100 years ago, or today all count as having come through the tribulation period. As to the other things about the “New Israel” and such, those only apply if you follow the Futurist style of prophetic interpretation.




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