Originally posted by Roark
Nobody has an exhaustive list of "Masons of the World", due to the decentralised structure of the organisation. Therefore it is impossible to prove that Obama is not on this non-existent list.

I outlined what it would take above - way above now.

Secretaries of regions are the keepers of lists. Ask them.

Hell, somebody ask somebody something. I'm sure some representative of Freemasonic bureaucracy has heard of the rumours regarding Paul and/or Obama. Maybe the guy would oblige and take a few Sundays to peruse the dungeon ... and get back to us. (Or request that someone else do so).

Maybe someone should just ask the campaign managers to ask the candidates outright. I'm just throwing things out here, that's all. If you remember I jumped in with a simple question (you know "conversation") and prefaced it saying that I don't care if they are or not. And I don't.

But, the thread is about Paul and Obama being claimed initiates of Freemasonry. I'm entirely on topic with the suggestions and questions I initially brought up. (And don't get me started about how I got derailed, the name is easy enough to paste in.)

Originally posted by Roark
Huh?

What's being a Mason got to do with it?

Meaning, that a Mason can hardly be expected to agree that the Masonic hegemony in the secret societies forum is anything other than innocent, and unworthy of mention.

Seems to be the new trend today? Global warming is true, then it's a conspiracy. Peak oil is real, then it's a trick. Alex Jones is speaking the truth, then he is disinforming. Loose Change is a good movie, then they are also a part of the conspiracy. Seems like everything is in the same bed.

Originally posted by Karras
Seems to be the new trend today? Global warming is true, then it's a conspiracy. Peak oil is real, then it's a trick. ...

Global warming seems to be real (although here in Canada the winters of the last few years have me seriously questioning it).

The conspiracy comes because the question of causation is controlled. Man-man or natural cycles? If the latter inquiry is not allowed to be pursued without repercussions, then yes, it is a conspiracy - of the most vile and irresponsible kind.

I'm not sure about peak oil. I'm real interested in the concept of Abiotic Oil though. And I do know that the purveyors of peak oil suspiciously advocate for the positions of the "population control" crowd. You know, those elites who wish they could eradicate about 5 billion of us because they say we are a virus upon mother earth; when in reality all they want to do is get rid of the "useless eaters" and scoop up the remaining resources for themselves.

Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men

Originally posted by Roark
Huh?

What's being a Mason got to do with it?

Meaning, that a Mason can hardly be expected to agree that the Masonic hegemony in the secret societies forum is anything other than innocent, and unworthy of mention.

No argument there. From a personal perspective, I've never been in private cahoots with any Mason here except about a year ago, when Corsig encouraged a number of us via U2U to refrain from ad hominem arguments as a way to preserve the integrity and quality of the forum's content. So, you can see why I might not be inclined to agree that there is a conspiracy to form a "hegemony".

The fact that Masons currently outnumber "Anti-Masons" (or whatever) doesn't really constitute a "hegemony". In 6 months it could be the other way around.

In either case, I think that a Masonic presence is a good thing for anyone who similarly desires that the conspiracy content on the forum is a little more engaging than "Masons molest children and worship reptiles/demons/Satan".

It may be cheeky of me to suggest that we serve to keep b#!!$#!+ artists on their toes, but there you have it.

As a wife of a 32nd degree mason and knight templar, as well as a member of the OES, I can tell you that these statements about Freemasonry are ludicrous.

You are talking about a fraternal organization, NOT a religious cult. "Lucifer" refers to the name of a star in the Eastern sky...not the Devil. The Holy Bible is upon the altar, for example; and the characters of the Eastern Star are heroines from the Bible. What do you think the G stands for in the Square and Compass??? It ain't Gucci!

Shriners, Scottish Rite, Masons, Easter Star, Order of the Amaranth, Knights Templar, Daughters of the Nile...all of these and more are merely fraternal organizations like those in colleges. Yet we aren't demonizing those..yet they are famous for drunkenness and sex orgies!!!

The Shriners and Scottish Rite fund hospitals that treat children at NO COST TO THE FAMILIES! Scottish Rite also has a shoe program for children who can't afford shoes. There is also a speech program for children with speech difficulties.

When my mother died last fall, the Masons and OES stepped in and did so much for us. I had just had surgery and barely was released in time to attend my own mother's funeral. One of my OES sisters and her husband loaned me a wheelchair so that I might go to graveside. The current master brought me food when I couldn't keep anything else down. When I was in the hospital with a severe UTI, he brought me cranberry juice. When our car broke down on the side of the Interstate, masons we didn't even know stopped to see if we were ok.

My husband's lodge have raised money for a mother of 4 whose husband abandoned them. They raised money for children who wouldn't have a Christmas, and bought them clothing and toys and brought them to the child's school to be delivered in anonymity away from the children's peers. All of this came out of their own pockets.

As for RP being too old to be only a 3rd degree, age is irrelevent. You can start learning the lectures at 18 or at 81, or 100 for that matter. All that is required to become a mason is to ask one...or 2B1Ask1 as they say. The purpose of Freemasonry was once a worker's guild, but today it is 'to make good men better.' And it does just that...

I really don't think anything in this post is true, but I'll only respond to the parts I know personally are not true:

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Many freemasons teach that Atlantis came before Egypt. Many freemasons cherish the Druid Priests.

Incorrect. That is not a masonic teaching, never has been, never will be. People who are masons may believe in such things, but its not because of freemasonry.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Freemasons believe in the Oneness of God and Nature (one world order).

Uhhh...no. Freemasons believe in the oneness of God. This has nothing to do with the "one world order."

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Freemasons (occults, illuminati, sons of light, enlightened ones) are behind every major religion and big business on earth. Most religious and political leaders are freemasons such as: Charles Taze Russell, Judge Joseph Rutherford, Joseph Smith, William Branham, and many other leaders were freemasons. King James was a freemason. The Holy Bible is a product of freemasonry.

Completely wrong. About the only thing I see in that entire statement that has a inkling of truth is that Joseph Smith was a mason.

So who would join freemasonry blindly, would you join a club that won’t let you know anything about them, my question was presented to a mason “why should I join, what’s in it for me” the reply was – “we do favours in exchange for favours, this is common knowledge, usually favours are for cash “ .......................................?