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Why is there a general discontent towards women?

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posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
To the original OP, the reason why I have so much discontent is because women are whores, all they care about is sex and money. I know a lot of man whores to btw, I'm not one of them.

-Jimmy


Yeeouch.

I don't know if thinking like this is going to cure your 'singleness' ailment.

Women are great, and they smell nice.




posted on May, 23 2008 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by princessjade
OrangTom,

Do me a favor, please? Tell me in plain wording, few words, spelled correctly, what it is that you believe about women, so that I may completely understand your beliefs. I am not being sarcastic but I truly want to understand what it is that you believe. It is obvious that I do not see your point and I want you to clarify it for me. Please do so at your earliest convenience!

Cheers!


It was appear to me that Orangetom believes that most of the worst stereotypes about men and women are true, but also that both genders have the potential to be great. Of course, I'm sure it's a little more complicated than that, but there's the most basic version...from what I've read.

Of course, I could be completely wrong about that.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by bigbert81
Yeeouch.
I don't know if thinking like this is going to cure your 'singleness' ailment.
Women are great, and they smell nice.


They do smell nice. oh will i guess this solves it.
Ah...wait don't smell their necks though. jk I deserve this >>>


[edit on 23-5-2008 by DuneKnight]



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by DuneKnight
 


I am deeply offended, I can't stand Dr. Phil. Please tell me that you aren't assuming that I am into Dr. Phil because I am a woman.

I just believe in equality, true equality where men and women can both take responsibility for their own actions, stop blaming the other gender for all of their problems.

Herman, I think that BOTH genders need to be responsible for keeping it in their pants once they are in a commited relationship. I am not totally against fooling around a bit before you decide to settle down but if you choose to do that, you should take every precaution possible to prevent pregnancy and STD. But BOTH genders need to take the responsibility for what consequences may arrive from sexual behaviour.

Also, where I am from there is a whole popular culture for transgenders, transvestites and the metrosexual culture is very popular here as well. The same way that girl on girl porn seems to be popular. Again Herman I think that you feel effeminate men get more flack because you are a man and any time you've acted the least bit effeminate, you've been blasted for it. Well I will tell you that it is the same for women. I can't even tell you how many times I have been called a "dyke" or a "lesbian" just for simple things like cutting my hair too short or wearing manish clothing.

Again, same problem, different gender.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 08:38 AM
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reply to post by snowflake_obsidian
 


there there I didnt mean that at all no need for u to be so emotional everything is gonna be fine I promise. jk lol.






[edit on 24-5-2008 by DuneKnight]



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
Herman, I think that BOTH genders need to be responsible for keeping it in their pants once they are in a commited relationship. I am not totally against fooling around a bit before you decide to settle down but if you choose to do that, you should take every precaution possible to prevent pregnancy and STD. But BOTH genders need to take the responsibility for what consequences may arrive from sexual behaviour.


I'm not disagreeing with your premise that it is people in general who need to be responsible, but instead trying to shed some light on why it may be ok for men to do certain things that women can't get away with, and vice versa. The pendulum swings both ways here, and perhaps that's not always such a bad thing. Maybe both genders playing to their strengths is something that can benefit our society, not hurt it. Perhaps men really are naturally more sexual than women. Could that be why male promiscuity is looked at as more typical than female promiscuity?


Also, where I am from there is a whole popular culture for transgenders, transvestites and the metrosexual culture is very popular here as well. The same way that girl on girl porn seems to be popular. Again


Yes, but that is not the norm. Women, in general, can now get away with wearing clothing that was once considered strictly male. It's not at all uncommon to see a woman walking around in a t-shirt, jeans, and a pair of shoes that could belong to any gender. In most places in this country, to see a man walking around in anything that resembles a dress or high-heels would most likely cause him a considerable amount of public humiliation. Then again, the whole "girl jean" thing is getting pretty big, so maybe things are changing. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this is a bad thing or something that needs to be changed, I'm just pointing out that women aren't the only gender that has been socially "oppressed" if that's what you want to call it.


Herman I think that you feel effeminate men get more flack because you are a man and any time you've acted the least bit effeminate, you've been blasted for it.


No, I'm definitely not effeminate. Not that it's a bad thing, but that's never been a problem I've encountered. I was speaking more about my own experiences with seeing cross dressers and the like as well as watching other people's responses to such things.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 04:59 PM
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thought this might be interesting:


The essentially promiscuous nature of the female species has been reflected in recent research into semen conducted by the English scientists R Robin Baker and Mark A Bellis, who wondered why a human penis must ejaculate 350m sperm when a man has no (conscious) desire to fertilise 350m women. The theory of sperm competition says that sperm must be prepared to do battle with the sperm of another man inside a woman because of the possibility that she has 'double mated'. Evolution seems to tell a truth denied by civilisation. Guardian


I guess anthropologically speaking, the sexual behavior difference between men and women were only created by cultures.

[edit on 24-5-2008 by DuneKnight]



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by DuneKnight
 


You got it. Women, and men, are both naturally promiscuous. It's cultural and religious traditions and things that have tried to force people into strict 1-to-1 pairings.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 11:45 PM
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I think there are deeper issues involved. In traditional societies, tradition regulates different rights and responsibilities to different members of the clan. The traditional notions of a clan have deteriorated into the nuclear family, and everything has been replaced with a market economy. With divorce lawyers and family law, even the nuclear family is subject to governmental and market pressures. Prostitution turns sex into market activity, but it doesn't produce sucessful families.

Creating a capitalistic marriage has proved a tricky task. The 'traditional' idea seems to be that the man pays the women to raise kids, and take care of a household. Feminists claim this relationship abuses women, and seems to advocate women as independent capitalistic persons along with men. Under the capitalist doctrine, past traditions and ideas should be exploited to maximize personal advantage--which I shall discuss more bellow.

Without any formal institutions for forming relationships, we are left with emotional ties. Many have learned to exploit emotions, and it is questionable how often pure emotions can lead to lasting relationships. With no standards or external pressures or moral approbation, relationships can become games.

Finally, people are poorly educated about relationships. You can see how your parents, or the actors behave in some TV show. You can discuss it with your friends, but as far as I know, schools do little to teach about healthy relationships, and I think few religious institutions do better. While lots of schools have sex ed, the focus seems to be more on anatomy than anything else.

I think all this leads to a very capitalistic approach to sexuality. It is all a matter of bodies and psychology, which can be exploited to maximum personal advantage. Everyone is out for themselves, and cares little for anyone else. If psychology can exploited to further it, then so be it. I think this leads to increasingly exploitative relationships, and adds another dimension of security to an insecure world.

I think feminism's vocal promotion of these ideas has upset many men. Women (through feminism) have attacked the last traditions of an unstable world, and men are upset. Men can either try to fight it, or embrace it, and try for what they can get.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by princessjade
OrangTom,

Do me a favor, please? Tell me in plain wording, few words, spelled correctly, what it is that you believe about women, so that I may completely understand your beliefs. I am not being sarcastic but I truly want to understand what it is that you believe. It is obvious that I do not see your point and I want you to clarify it for me. Please do so at your earliest convenience!

Cheers!


PrincessJade,

No I dont think you are being sarcastic in this quoted post above and I was wondering when you were going to get around all that surface fluff to which you were resorting to make some kind of a point. Glad to see you finally asked.

What do I believe. I believe the scenerios I explained on this thread and others...many women are well versed in them. Do all women practice them ..no I dont think so ..but I believe more of women are knowlegable in them than are men. I think that alot of men are quite ignorant to these types of patterns in behaviors.

I also believe what I said to Snowflake..in that the standards and practices of many women today has fallen significantly.
I also believe that the standards for men today has dropped even more.
I say this because to me more men and women today have become better consumers..not necessarily better people. Defining themselves by what they consume..not by who they are or what they know per se. They are often just consuming each other. Statistics seem to bear this out.

Is everyone like this..no ..most certainly not. But it is obvious that it is waxing worse and worse.
To me some people need to be thinking about the nature of a thing ...not just how to use it do define themselves...on the outside...instead of inside where it will count.

You know PrincessJade...for some reason on this line of thought about consuming each other...for some reason it brings to mind what someone else sent me as a link to support thier argument or position. It was something called the Urban Dictionary. THe definition was the definition of Hate. I read that slant from this dictionary and it was obvious that it was all about social status. How pitiful. Scroll down in line after line in this dictionary and it was over and over again..social status. How to make ones self look good...and not be dissed!! Really pitiful to me. How to justify ones self. It came across in its own way as the unsophistication of a Cosmo Quiz. Very similar pattern..social status.
Well ..I hope you get my meaning here.

Also PrincessJade..it has been my observation that women if they so choose can get away with many of these types of behaviors than men..simply because of the natural ignorance of many men..and also because of the natural ability of women to be more subtle in a manner often undetected by most men. I also think that in this natural subtilty ...another women will pick up on it much faster than most men. It is as if many women see on a different wavelength than most men..and will use this to thier advantage when warranted or they think justified. What most dont do is teach this kind of thinking to men. I think they understand the RISKS here ..better than men. This is one reason I am prone to saying..."What a dumb bunch of men."

Herman has it pretty close here with the proviso that I know that not all men or women do this...but a noticable number that one can see it repeated often among the people one knows. Enough that one learns to look for patterns of behaviors.



It was appear to me that Orangetom believes that most of the worst stereotypes about men and women are true, but also that both genders have the potential to be great. Of course, I'm sure it's a little more complicated than that, but there's the most basic version...from what I've read.


Snowflake,
I am gratified to read that you dont like DR Phil. Neither do I care for him. To be frank I dont care for any of those types of programs. I have enough problems around this place. I dont need to be voyeuristically watching someone elses problems or drama. This one reason you often see me facetiously saying...." do I need to take a lie detector test on this one??"

Oh..by the way...Snowflake. I dont get all upset by how a woman dresses per se. I sometimes think both women and men put to much emphasis on this as some kind of social pecking order. Back to that status thing again. A woman is a woman on the inside first..not outside. I think both sexes have been sold a false bill of goods here...by comercialism. For all that matter ...so too is being a man..inside first..not outside.
Dont get me wrong here..a woman who knows how to dress nicely is ok...but it takes more than that to be a woman. Am I coming across here with some sanity in what I am trying to say about womens dress??

Contrab makes some excellent points with which I agree with many of them.

I am not to sure about his conclusion here however...


I think feminism's vocal promotion of these ideas has upset many men. Women (through feminism) have attacked the last traditions of an unstable world, and men are upset. Men can either try to fight it, or embrace it, and try for what they can get.


First off....I think this world has always been unstable. Nothing new here. I think alot of this stuff will wane ..at $6.00 to $8.00 per gallon. Femminism is going to find that they do so at thier own peril at those prices ..unless they can find ways to play through again by stealth on the public purse. I think that at those prices..entitlement mentality is not going to cut it.

Many men are upset because they can hardly think things through outside of sports/ cheerleader mentality.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 01:09 AM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


I got no objection to what women wear, however I usually end up being attracted to the ones who dont 'show off' their goods. elegance goes a long way. just wanted to put that out there. I shall be quiet now



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 02:44 AM
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reply to post by crontab
 


The reason why the whole "men paying women to raise children" didn't work was because of control issues. The man (or the person working, women do this too) more often than not pulls out the "I am the one with the money, you must do what I tell you to". No one likes being controlled in that manner and no one should be controlled like that. My grandmother was treated like that for years until finally she said "Screw this, I am getting a job."

So now women have a little more freedom than they did once upon a time and many are abusing it. So the scales have tipped and we are in another time of imbalance. I think once we focus more on individuals and at least a little less on strict gender roles than we can balance out again.

OrangeTom, I like clothes as much as the next female and accessories to advertise my personality, however I am not obsessed with clothes and I don't allow my clothes to define who I am. That is the problem, as you said EVERYBODY, men included is obsessed with social status now days. I mean, it's ok to like clothes, it's ok to like to enjoy a little drama on TV occassionaly and what not but everyone needs to balance these things out with things that really matter.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 03:32 AM
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Nice thread Dunenight... I didnt see it until tonight... but i feel i sort of have an obligation to comment... since the 2 links in the original post lead to threads i started...


anyways...

This thread seems to heap a lot of the blame onto the women... but the men in our society are not innocent of being moraly bankrupt...


Being sexualy deviant has become the new normal in our society.

Its been my opinion that for the history of humans, women have been the ones that kept men in check. Women have always been the nutarues in the family, not concerned with 'power' or 'things of monerary value'.

The last 100 years or so of the feminism revolution, has changed the dynamics of the family. With an expanded new world of oppertunity, there was openings for new venues of devience...

I am in my early 20's, and i can only react to what i am seeing, where i am living... looking back at history is always difficult...

Personaly, what i am seeing, where i live in Northern California, in a College town, is what it is, and i have written on this site many times about the things that i see here...

We have a hook-up culture... its everywhere, and its not limited to just straight couples... or couples for that matter...

I am terrifed to know that what i am expericnceing here in NorCal, will spread to the rest of the country in the next few years... I lived on the east coast, and its no where near what is going on out here.

The blame cannot be put on the women alone, a large chunk of men have gone astray as well.

That being said, i dont know what more to add to this thread... other then, there are still realy nice women out there, i just have no idea where...

PS, i thinking they must be living somewhere between Nevada and Kentucky, in the middle of the country. I should just move to a small town, in the middle of the US, and join a Church and meet a girl that has some morals...

Which brings me to a story, i was watching a Seinfeld episode with some friends, it was the one where Jerry and Elaine start having sex again, but just sex as friends, not a realationship... so, this seems the best time for one of the girls in the room to say that she has a Friends with Benifits... she said it with pride, like she wanted a compliment or something, like we were supposed to say, "Oh, how progresive of you, why dont you, me and your Roommate go into the other room for a 3-way..." i mean, come on...



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
reply to post by crontab
 


The reason why the whole "men paying women to raise children" didn't work was because of control issues. The man (or the person working, women do this too) more often than not pulls out the "I am the one with the money, you must do what I tell you to". No one likes being controlled in that manner and no one should be controlled like that. My grandmother was treated like that for years until finally she said "Screw this, I am getting a job."


In the initial round of marriage and sexuality evolving from a tribal to a capitalistic relationship, many women didn't like the deal they joined the workforce to negotiate a better deal.

As guys have realized the women no longer have tribal responsibilities, guys have abandoned tradition responsibilities as well. The legal system has been inadequate to deal with these issues, and has favored women to an extent with custody and child support.

Marriage and sexuality used to be regulated by family and religion. Both of these have been weakened. Now, the government has taken over in some areas, and in other areas there is total anarchy.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by TKainZero
 


I stay in SOCAL. I heard about Norcal, now i know it's true what they say, you guys must have some real freaks out there, huh?



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by DuneKnight
Im not sure if this is the place for this so bear with me here. Is it me or is there a general sense of discontent all of a sudden being felt universally among men towards how women lead their social life. almost all my friends keep reminding me of how women have become 'whores' and irresponsible when it comes to their sex lives; and that they run a hedonistic/utilitarian lifestyle that is ruining society as a whole. and everywhere i look on the internet you see people blaming women for STDS, and look down on them for living a social life or displaying a certain sexual attitude that was only acceptable for men. even on ATS like hereand here
as i recall this wasnt an issue like 10 yrs ago, so this leads me to think that has feminism backfired? or are people starting to rally behind conservatism. so why cant US be like europe anyway, as US is sort of in the middle which is hard to figure out.
what caught my attention was this ad posted in another forum:


which i think is disparaging and demeaning btw, u probably seen it before though, however this one i thought was funny:



so any thoughts...am i the only one sensing this because i swear i heard the word 'whore' today more than 10 times.


Dammit man! Say it ain't so trojan 35 man by the age of 25, that's more then 1 cock for every year of their life. Dam I hate to see how that p----- gonna like once they're 40, it'll be like putting my d--- in the mouth of a whale, and it'll probably smell like one too. But I do believe the numbers to be true, especially where I live. I've seen girls at the age 19 that resemble baloney, I couldn't do anything with it, for they would chew me up and spit me out like bubble gum. Why couldn't i have been born in the 50's with the game I have 2day. Life sucks
.

[edit on 25-5-2008 by pak88]



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


OrangeTom,

I think I see your point and I understand what you are saying. This world and some of the people in it have become very materialistic and it seems that appearance rules. The Urban Dictionary you spoke of speaks volumes. I try to look nice but I will not go into debt or kill myself to 'fit in'. I do not buy the latest styles, et cetera. I buy what I like and I do my makeup how I like it.

On another note, I am getting an education. I work full time. I have 2 children. I am not married and do not want to be. I do not use men for money. I am self supporting. I do not allow myself to be used unless I want to but that's another thread on another day! LOL And it would have to be mutual use!

Anyhow, long story short. Both sexes have fault and men run games and women run games. Some men are bad and some women are bad. Not all men are bad and not all women are bad. Group thinking is not acceptable. It is like the pit bull controversey, you cannot put all dogs into the pit bull category or all pit bulls for that matter. It is an individual basis.


Cheers!



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 03:35 PM
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Princessjade,

You're definitely right with your "pit bull" analogy, but from what I've seen, men and women play games in different ways. That's why, sometimes, it's therapeutic for men to do the whole "*sigh*WOMEN!" thing, and vice versa. I've certainly been there...quite recently, too. Then again, I'm sure I've inspired at least one "*sigh*Men!" talk among women. Men and women are not exactly the same physically or mentally (obviously.) No, I don't believe either of us are too complicated for the other to understand, but we both have our unique advantages and disadvantages. I still maintain that ignoring these advantages and pretending that both genders are equally capable in every manner of society is naive and possibly destructive. Nobody should be restricted or held back from doing what they want to do, but I also don't believe that traditional roles should be discouraged. Someday, when (if) I'm married, I honestly would not mind if my wife chose to work full time, or if she chose to stay home and take care of the kids. Whatever would make her the happiest. Do I believe our family would function better if she chose to stay home and take care of the kids? Most likely, yes, but I would not have her do this if it's not what she wants to do. Again, nobody should be oppressed or held back, but traditional roles, to a point, do have their value in my opinion so long as people choose them instead of being forced into them.

I apologize if I wound up a little off track here, but it's all in the same vein.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by pak88
Dammit man! Say it ain't so trojan 35 man by the age of 25, that's more then 1 cock for every year of their life. Dam I hate to see how that p----- gonna like once they're 40, it'll be like putting my d--- in the mouth of a whale, and it'll probably smell like one too. But I do believe the numbers to be true, especially where I live. I've seen girls at the age 19 that resemble baloney, I couldn't do anything with it, for they would chew me up and spit me out like bubble gum. Why couldn't i have been born in the 50's with the game I have 2day. Life sucks
.

[edit on 25-5-2008 by pak88]


You're pretty disgusting, man.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by pak88
I stay in SOCAL. I heard about Norcal, now i know it's true what they say, you guys must have some real freaks out there, huh?



Strange is not an aduquete word...

I seen unmentionalbe things... if i were descirbe what happens at an Average party here in NorCal... i would be in Blanet violation of the T&C...



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