What do you think about Ken Wilber and Father Thomas Keating? Videos included

If you don't want to bother with the vids, I think these two quotes sum up
at least what Father Thomas Keating was saying.

"The holistic and concentrated way that religion addresses the human problem are unmatched, but they also have to be gradually transcended. Not by rejection, but by taking the steps in which we relate to God more and more maturely (contemplation/meditation and I think he also meant actions or "works") as we grow as human beings into adulthood." Thomas Keating

"To love the lord God with your whole mind, whole spirit - it's impossible to do that without contemplative practices." Thomas Keating

What is being said is that religion can be used to ground you and guide you and is very helpful to a spiritual, contemplative life. And that the contemplative is also very helpful to a religious life.

I want to hear your thoughts on these two guys and what they have said, any problems with it? I thought that their advice here was compelling.

Do you think Spirituality should totally transcend religion? Or maybe you think Religion should trump spirituality and spirituality is a road that us mere mortals should stay off of (things we don't understand)?

It is not an easy question, they are what they are you could say. But both seem to require some form of loyalty, devotion, or dedication to successfully pursue. I'm wondering what you think about these guys, and how you balance all these factors, maybe some of you have found your own answers to this question I am facing.

David could be an example for us.
He studied the Law of God.
I think that being "contemplative" inside our own mind leads to nothing good.
I would vote for religion over spirituality.
I know my own spirit is sinful.
We need to look at God.
God speaks to us in very practical and material ways.
God's law tells us what we need to know about God.
He instructs us on how to act.

Sorry for a late reply, I couldn't get into ATS for a while.

Can I ask you a few things jm?

Is there anything you do that you think might form similar feelings that mediation for so called spiritual people would. Positive feelings of peace for example. I know I have had moments of great happiness and feeling close to God before I ever even knew what meditation was. However, meditation makes me feel great and at peace. I'm just wondering if praying or some other act leaves you the same way?

What are your thoughts on people of other religions, born on the other side of the world, are they going to hell? Or is there more to it?

What do you think about Thomas Keating? Long time Catholic priest, is he misguided, or what might have made him go down this path?

I actually read one of Ken Wilber's books, Integral Spirituality since I posted this. As you said being "contemplative" inside our own mind leads to nothing good. Wilber says that being contemplative with bad guidance (self guidance at low-mid range levels of understanding would be the worst) leads to nothing good.

Could a person meditate as an act of devotion to God? To me a person meditating could well be saying "Lord, I am here to honor you by stopping my worries and thoughts and just taking this moment to share with you" If that person is alone and not indulging in something else, then who else is there but him and the Lord?

How can we limit our view of God to a man in the sky, seperate and above us. But whenever I feel my mind truly moving beyond this and expanding it's view (subconcious view) of God, it's cool to move beyond that, but soon I get a bad spiritual feeling that can only be described as a sickness, or unease... discomfort.

It seems like either way, you cannot get it right.

We assume we are seperate from God and we have to get to him. Are we not doubting God by thinking this?

But then on the other end if we assume we are one with God, aren't we being arrogant?

The benefits of a contemplative path really stick out to me. I feel happiness when I have it in a deeper way, I experience things on a more appreciative level, even negative things like mild depression. It's almost like I feel younger every day... So I know this is helping me in some regards.

But I don't understand God any better than I ever have.