Acording to recent developements, over 90% of blacks should be considered racist.

reply to post by Sublime620


If you consider my rebuttal a straw man argument, so be it.

What part of my reply to the poster, alpha, did you resent? Was it not factual?
I took offense to the poster, alpha, blaming all African American's problems
on the "caucasians". Again, if you're going to play the blame game, let's look at history in a factual light.

Are caucasians wholly responsible for the enslavement of Africans? No. If you want to discuss racism, but the person you're having the discussion with denies the facts, then there's no point to the discussion!!! Truth is still a truth no matter how much you claim otherwise.

Why don't white apologists and black leaders like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson ever admit that Africans were captured, imprisoned and sold by fellow black Africans. And it's STILL happening as I type these words. That is a FACT. Am I a bigot or a racist for bringing this up?

You seem to embrace whatever fits your philosophy, but when presented with facts that oppose it, you either dismiss them automatically, or claim they're irrelevant.

Originally posted by Sublime620

But, again, that's not racism. That's a derivative of the lower class. All throughout history the lower class has been riddled with crime and violence.

That depends dont it? In fact we dont know which criems are race related and which aren't, because the police only look for that kind of info when the perp is white, or the victime is a minority. When black's kills whites though, its just "a crime"

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed


Complete lies.

Black man charged in hate crime

Another black man charged with a hate crime

That door swings both ways. I think you have some previous biases that you
may want to examine.

Originally posted by Sublime620
reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed

 

Complete lies.

Black man charged in hate crime

Another black man charged with a hate crime

That door swings both ways. I think you have some previous biases that you
may want to examine.

Oh please. To point to two isolated instances, among the many thousands that arent, is simply dishonest. You own links show explicitly state that "charges for black on white hate crimes are rare"


Stop shilling.

[edit on 5/9/2008 by Shazam The Unbowed]

Originally posted by Sublime620
Just understand their position.

I can't understand their position when it puts even the slightest blame on my shoulders.

I wouldn't be very trusting of people either.

You forgot to place white before people in that sentence. If somebody doesn't trust me even though I've done nothing wrong to them, I'm not going to trust them either.

40 years (and that's at most) is how long we have treated them with the respect a human being deserves.

40 years. That's half of a lifetime. That's not very long.

That's 10 years longer than I've been alive. If black men over 40 have issues, they can take it up with white men over 40.

Back on topic, if black people think Obama is going to be some kind of champion for them, I have a feeling they're going to be disappointed and angry with him at the end of his term if elected. Again, he's half white and has made it clear he wishes to transcend the race issue, and he's probably beholden to the same puppet masters as Bush. There will be very little "change".

reply to post by blimpseeker


Oh! So when whites vote for Obama it is because of guilt, and when Blacks do it is because of racism! You have all bases covered to hide your own sense of racism. Great tactic!

Originally posted by Ameneter
reply to post by blimpseeker

 

Oh! So when whites vote for Obama it is because of guilt, and when Blacks do it is because of racism! You have all bases covered to hide your own sense of racism. Great tactic!

White males are the only ones in this race actually looking at the candidates, as candidates. Barak gets 90+% of the Black Vote, Hillary is gettign 75-90% of the female vote. The only demographic that is actually looking beyond race and gender are white men.

reply to post by 27jd


It doesn't put anything square on your shoulders. Some probably just have a general distrust for us, and I can't blame them.

Say the Nazi party reformed and became peaceful, I doubt many Jews would trust them - even if they had no reason not to anymore.

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed


I typed "black hate crime" into google and it was the first two results. Can't be too uncommon if they get the most hits.

Do you have some statistics you'd like to share? Do you have any proof that blacks commit hate crimes all the time and get away with them? Or are you just guessing off of bias (Hint: I think it's the latter).

ok ok ok, how many grown people are on this board? racism is being confused with self identity, I think that racism really should only be used to describe when discriminating on the basis of race only in a negative way, can i use an example of unknowingly or consciously bonding with a self identifying group with no intention of offending anyone? if you go to a classroom on just about any campus, high school or public gathering place, best case example is a high school basketball game, I think people naturally group and follow those whose physical, cultural and lingual characteristics are closest to theirs, hell, gender to me is the greatest example of this, just think of how many women no matter what and because of Hillary's connection to womens lib will only vote for her because of gender identity and going through that struggle, now is that really Sexist? or just women identifying with another woman and being empathetic to that cause finally becoming self fulfilling to have a female candidate.
Now in a civilized society most are supposed be able to overcome that and instantly be able to mingle with any and every color, social class or other dividing line that exists but generally we know that when faced with either adversity or struggle we generally fall back to our own in many instances naturally, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, just don't harbor the idea you are any better than someone else because of that self identifying group.

I really do think a lot of blacks and other people of color, have gone with Obama because they actually see themselves or their own children be it multi ethnic or multi racial, Obama as a symbol or token appeals to so many beyond being black or half black however you want to define it, hell a great majority of the blacks in America are half black and have been mixed at some point back a few generations.

I really do think many blacks voted for Obama because of the historically uphill climb for racial equality and to be considered equal, being able to have a black president defines for many the ultimate realization of equality and speaks to the fact that all men are created equal, dont read too far into the facts and come to conclusions that blacks are racist, thats not a fair accusation, at least not to me.




[edit on 10-5-2008 by phinubian]

Originally posted by phinubian
ok ok ok, how many grown people are on this board? racism is being confused with self identity, I think that racism really should only be used to describe when discriminating on the basis of race only in a negative way, can i use an example of unknowingly or consciously bonding with a self identifying group with no intention of offending anyone?

Sorry, but when you only bond to that group, unelss there is no other chance, thats racism. Anytime a black candidate goes against a white one, blacks vote for the black candidate at ppercentages above 90%. Thats racism.

if you go to a classroom on just about any campus, high school or public gathering place, best case example is a high school basketball game, I think people naturally group and follow those whose physical, cultural and lingual characteristics are closest to theirs, hell, gender to me is the greatest example of this, just think of how many women no matter what and because of Hillary's connection to womens lib will only vote for her because of gender identity and going through that struggle, now is that really Sexist?

Yep, Hit that one sqaure on the head. It is in fact sexism.

or just women identifying with another woman and being empathetic to that cause finally becoming self fulfilling to have a female candidate.

Not sure what you meant by this, but it sounds like a justification for exism to me.

Originally posted by Shazam The Unbowed
Sorry, but when you only bond to that group, unelss there is no other chance, thats racism. Anytime a black candidate goes against a white one, blacks vote for the black candidate at ppercentages above 90%. Thats racism.

Oh thanks, grand ye ole expert.

Again, do you have anything to substantiate that claim with?

Originally posted by Shazam The Unbowed
Yep, Hit that one sqaure on the head. It is in fact sexism.

" "
^^ Same thing I said the past 10 posts... source? Facts? Anything?

*Edit: Missed a backslash

[edit on 11-5-2008 by Sublime620]

Originally posted by Sublime620
Why do you think liberals want to try to minimize the lower class as much as possible?

HA! what a joke!the liberals created the lower class and maintain it as much as posible so that they can maintain their voting base! THE VICTIM
the victim is the liberals base! they keep the blacks on welfare and dependant on the government by supplying more and more programs for them
"Here let us the liberals take care of you...you know you can't take care of yourself because of everything the WHITE MAN has done to you..por poor baby"

Hurricane Katrina and New Orleans is a prime example of a liberal government at its best. All those "lower class" victims kept waiting for the government to come and save them instead of saving themselves and getting the heck out of dodge when they were told to do so.

Originally posted by blimpseeker
Hurricane Katrina and New Orleans is a prime example of a liberal government at its best. All those "lower class" victims kept waiting for the government to come and save them instead of saving themselves and getting the heck out of dodge when they were told to do so.

I can't even begin to explain the multitude of things wrong with this statement.

Do have any facts to back any of this up or are you just spewing garbage propaganda?

Please, show me a source that says that poor people stayed in New Orleans because they were waiting for the liberals to come...

(ridiculous - good luck finding that source)

Being meaning to post here on this. A fews days ago, when Hillary won W. Virginia, in the many articles downplaying this important primary, all brought up the subject of racism, as to why Obama isn't winning enough blue collar votes. Hillary gets less than 10% of the black vote, and Obama get around 40% of the white vote, and our press questions the motives of the white voters, but not the black voters. This is clearly a double standard. I also like how they bring up the non-college degree part, as if that is an indicator of the caliber of the voters.

Way to go liberal elite, Obama supporting journalists, destroy any and all reasons for blue collar whites to vote democratic.

I could never support Ron Paul, his idea of selling off our nations most important public assets is something I could never support, but third party is the way I am ready to go.

Let me just pull up an interesting statistic for you:

"In the 2000 presidential race, 94 percent of black women voted for Al Gore, while only 6 percent supported George W. Bush, according to the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, an African American think tank based in Washington, D.C. Close to 9 million black women were registered to vote in the election, and of that number 7.6 million said they actually voted, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. There were over 13 million black women in the U.S. in 2000."

Here's another interesting statistic (Jan, 2007):

"Early polls show Hillary Clinton far ahead of Obama among black voters (a CBS News poll gave Clinton 52% of the vote vs. 28% for Obama), although this in part reflects her extremely high name recognition. "
www.time.com...


A lot of what you guys are saying makes little sense. About 90% of black people vote Democrat anyway. Black people vote for the candidate who they believe represents them better, and who they believe speaks on their behalf. In January of 2007 they felt it was Clinton, but with Obama's visibility, coupled with Bill Clinton's blatant race-baiting, black voters slowly but surely began to drift towards Obama who they felt represented them more. As you can also see from the above statistic 94% of black women voted for Gore in 2000. Is it because he's black? Obviously not. That lopsided statistic is as a direct result of black women feeling that Gore was the best candidate at the time that would lead to progress in the black communities and help their economic situation. It is really that simple. They also felt the same way for Bill, who got the VAST majority of the blac vote, another reason why he's affectionately refered to as the "first black President". You all need to get your heads out of your asses for once.

reply to post by atlscribe


Yeah, I've posted a few statistics like that. They don't care. They just love being able to call blacks racist.

Kids in a candy store...

reply to post by atlscribe


And guess what, those polls were wrong, and Obama has gotten over 90% of the black vote.

Let me get this right, Bill Clinton was race baiting by saying Jesse ran a good campaign and Obama ran a good campaign, and that is why Obama won in S. Carolina (read the whole quote, not the race baiting quote put out by the media), and Obama's spiritual mentor is not a race baitor with the extreme statements he makes, and you don't see a double standard? The real race baitors are the liberal elites covering this primary.

Sublime

You don't have a clue what I am talking about. I am not saying that blacks are racists, I am saying that those who point to white racism every chance they get are hypocrites, who maintain a double standard.

Some people will believe anything to hang on to their denial and their hypocrisy.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by atlscribe

 

And guess what, those polls were wrong, and Obama has gotten over 90% of the black vote.

Let me get this right, Bill Clinton was race baiting by saying Jesse ran a good campaign and Obama ran a good campaign, and that is why Obama won in S. Carolina (read the whole quote, not the race baiting quote put out by the media), and Obama's spiritual mentor is not a race baitor with the extreme statements he makes, and you don't see a double standard? The real race baitors are the liberal elites covering this primary.

Sublime

You don't have a clue what I am talking about. I am not saying that blacks are racists, I am saying that those who point to white racism every chance they get are hypocrites, who maintain a double standard.

Some people will believe anything to hang on to their denial and their hypocrisy.

These polls are wrong, simply because you say so? Buddy, I gave you concrete links. If Time Magazine isn't a reputable source then I don't know what is.

I've read the entire Bill Clinton quote, and I must tell you that you need to stop being so naive. The statement was clearly meant to draw attention to Obama's ethnicity. I don't think many would dispute that. You bring up Revrend Wright, and I'm wondering exactly what that has to do with Obama and the topic at hand. You've veered off course, and seem to have an agenda, as I suspected you did when you dismissed legitimate polls as being "wrong". Also, Revrend Wright was not race-baiting in the first place. I think you have to look up what the term means before you start levelling accusations at people. There is no double standard. There are people who clearly vote against Obama because he is black. This not debatable:

The real race baitors are the liberal elites covering this primary.

Or the people that fall victim to it due to their unwavering paranoia.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by atlscribe]

Originally posted by blimpseeker

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by blimpseeker

 

I'm not voting for anyone because of their skin color. You are no one to throw around the word "sheeple", and I don't feel guilty. Where are you going with this?

So you can honestly say that you are voting Obama because ...

A. he is the most experienced
B. he has the best plan on moving the country forward
C. you think he is "cool"
D. you like him more than any other democrat running
E. you would never vote Republican

please explain your answer. if you have one.

It's not on the list.

Here's my answer. I'm not a democrat, I'm not a republican, I'm not an anything except for someone looking out for the better of America. But so far the only "dirt" I have seen on Obama are severely loose associations, low blows, and BS about him being a stealth Jihadist who is out to destroy America.

I was born in Costa Rica to Cuban parents, does that make me a communist, or a "Castro Sympathizer". Both of my parents are Christian, I am sort of one. I called myself one for a while, even here, but I can't be part of that club anymore. So what? Does that mean I'm mounting an assault on Christian America?

Every argument for discrediting him is not even loosely based on his credentials, or experience, or really anything legitimately political.

It's all BS. And even though he is NOT the best candidate, he is the best to win the election.

reply to post by atlscribe


A poll is nothing more than a guess, and the poll you referred to guessed wrong. This is basic reality, whether or not the article about the poll was in the NYTimes. You want a link, here ya go.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Obama was winning roughly 90 percent of the black vote but only about one-third of the white vote, extending a pattern that carried him to victory in earlier primaries in South Carolina, Alabama, Georgia and Louisiana.

 

I would say that msnbc is as credible as the NYTimes.

Obama has consistently won about 90%of the black vote.

Here is the whole Clinton quote.

mediamatters.org...

"Jesse Jackson won South Carolina twice in '84 and '88, and he ran a good campaign, and Senator Obama has run a good campaign here,"

 

90% of the black vote clearly shows that blacks have overwhelmingly gone for Obama, and there is nothing wrong with pointing out this reality. The article also talks about the other false charges against Bill.

As far as Wright is concerned, he is nothing but a race baitor, who has profited greatly from the practice. People who deny this are living in a state of denial.