Conservatives Happier Than Liberals

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by Lightworth

 

What Mises identified was that private ownership of the means of production existed in name only under the Nazis and that the actual substance of ownership of the means of production resided in the German government. For it was the German government and not the nominal private owners that exercised all of the substantive powers of ownership: it, not the nominal private owners, decided what was to be produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it was to be distributed, as well as what prices would be charged and what wages would be paid, and what dividends or other income the nominal private owners would be permitted to receive. The position of the alleged private owners, Mises showed, was reduced essentially to that of government pensioners.

The combination of price controls with this further set of controls constitutes the de facto socialization of the economic system. For it means that the government then exercises all of the substantive powers of ownership.

Furthermore, in any type of socialist state, Nazi or Communist, the government's economic plan is part of the supreme law of the land.

mises.org...

Good stuff!

But liberals see only what they want to see, and since Hitler, the man they have invest much energy demonizing, and rightfully so, has always been on the same side of the political fence as them, well that hurts. Therefore, they are understandably in denial .

reply to post by centurion1211


The right simply has it's own form of "political correctness", that is quite nearly a perfect mirror image of the left's. Adherence to any political ideology requires a certain amount of willful blindness. The right is very much as PC, in it's own way, as the left, however much they've made an issue out of it.

When ideology becomes a part of your identity, it is no longer possible to look at things in a balanced way, or to make a realistic appraisal of the facts.

You have to toe the "conservative" line because it's part of your identity.
It's the same way with self-identified "liberals"...

Originally posted by xmotex
I'd be happier too if I could make myself believe whatever authority figures told me.

I’m sure when you get more liberals in power you will be happy too.

Having to live in the "reality based" world sucks - it would be so much easier to believe whatever doublespeak BS my talk radio & televangelist heroes told me to

I only listen to music on the radio and I certainly don’t go to church. I use common sense, which is uncommon for liberal folks.

That said, the "liberal" end of the spectrum does seem really good at whiny victimization BS - but it's still a good deal less irritating to me personally than the deluded triumphalist crapola the right pumps out.

I would say from my experienced here on ats that most liberals do quite a bit of whining, and why not? whining is liberalism’s mantra, it’s not your fault, well maybe it is.

reply to post by gdeed


Funny that the people from the mises institute (who are libertrarians) would call you a liberal because you don't believe that there is a conspiracy behind the federal reserve. In fact, they created a video similar to the money masters, but with a slightly different spin.

Google Video Link

Its all devisive BS during a political year. Who's proving Global Warming? Conservative AND Liberal scientists. Who's losing in the economy? The Conservative AND Liberal Middle Class. The poor are Conservative AND Liberal too!

Ask a homeless person on the street their stance? Yep. Conservative AND Liberal too.

I work in the Retail sector of society, you know, the vital link between Supply and Demand, and we have Conservative AND Liberal shoppers who are suffering. I've been in Retail for 20 years now and this is the first time I've seen us cut the work hours of our veterans like me. So we have Conservative AND Liberals suffering or being happy.

This study couldn't prove what its attempting to say by reality's standards, so it has to be devisive BS in a political year.

(Hint, in 1980 I voted Conservative, in 1990 I voted Liberal, and remained happy throughout.)

reply to post by gdeed

I’m sure when you get more liberals in power you will be happy too.

Thank you for proving my point about ideology.
You can't escape it, the conviction that nefarious "liberals" are behind every ill in the world is an almost religious one.

Whether you get your programming from talk radio, WND, whatever, you accept it without question. It's like trying to talk to a soundboard that can only respond with a certain set of stock responses (talking points) - debate is impossible because you have to believe certain things - it's an integral part of your identity. You have no other choice...

In answer to your point - not really.
In fact the only President in recent history that I disliked more than Bill Clinton is George Bush.

You keep tilting at the "liberal" windmill, but my positions on gun control (against), nuclear power (pro), manned space exploration (pro), and fiscal restraint (pro) mean most dogmatic liberals try to pigeonhole me as a "conservative" - which I am certainly not, either.

[edit on 5/7/08 by xmotex]

I'm not sure that conservatives are happier than liberals, but it is my observation, having listened to the rhetoric of the two parties for many decades, that conservatives are more optimistic about the nation and it's future than are liberals.

Liberals are always talking about the lack of opportunity in the US, all the while that people of other countries are risking life and limb to get here for the opportunity.

Liberals live in a static world of doom and gloom that only the government can fix, which it never does, while conservatives live in a dynamic world that will ebb and flow according to the free market and that for every downturn there is an upturn and that for every door that closes, at least one opens.

For example:

By her husband’s logic, Michelle Obama must be a heavily armed xenophobic religious zealot, because boy is she bitter. The speech delivered by Mrs. Obama in North Carolina last Friday is characteristic of her peculiar recent performances on the stump. It is an hour-long talk to supporters who just want something to cheer about, and who get some opportunities at the outset, but then find themselves treated to a profoundly and relentlessly negative vision of American life.

She first offers, as she often does in her appearances, a kind of victim’s history of the 2008 Democratic primary race. In Mrs. Obama’s telling, the Barack Obama campaign becomes not an extraordinary mix of strategy and skill, but a sad reflection on the unfairness of American life. The bar, we are told, is always being raised just as her husband is about to reach it. They said he couldn't win because he didn’t have an organization. Then he built an organization, so they said he couldn’t win because he didn’t have money. He raised money, so they said he couldn’t win because he couldn’t win caucuses. He won caucuses, so they said he couldn’t win because he couldn’t win primaries.

In the tone and substance of the story is the implication that the fact that this race isn’t over is evidence of a profound injustice done to her husband. “The bar is constantly changing for this man,” she tells us. Of course, the only relevant bar in an election is whether you win a majority, and Sen. Obama has yet to win a majority of Democratic delegates. If he did, the race would be over. The bar’s not moving.

www.cbsnews.com...

Please note that this comes from CBS News, who is about as liberal as the media get.

And before someone argues that Michelle Obama isn't running for president, it should be remembered that she will be the First Lady if Obama is elected and if nothing else the First Lady is in the public's eye, America's ambassador for the White House.

[edit on 2008/5/7 by GradyPhilpott]

Ok I'm not sure if this was mentioned yet. But because I dont feel like reading through 4 pages I will say what I think.

In Politics there is no such thing as right or wrong, there is one way of doing things and another way of doing things. One way may have one advantadge, the other way may have a different advantage. But the point I am trying to get at is either way not everybody is going to end up happy.
So it is pointless to say that one type of view makes happier than the other, because it doesnt. There are happy people in this world and their are sad people I really dont think that your political view makes a difference.
I know both liberals and conservitives who are happy, and others who are sad.
And I doubt there politcal view makes any difference.

Ok its obvious Im going to have to spell this out I didnt want to put this kind of work into this but here we go

Conservative:In the United States, political conservatives believe two basic things are important for keeping America strong: morality and responsibility. Therefore, conservatives often support government policies that promote moral behavior - like abstinence education - and that encourage responsible behavior - like lowering taxes on people who work hard and are financially successful.

Conservatives believe Americans should help each other, but that society should not look to the government to solve all of its problems. Conservatives see the government as big and wasteful, and government programs too often reward immoral or irresponsible behavior. Conservatives believe that the government should keep a tight budget, and government programs - if they exist at all - should help people get strong and independent so that they do not need further government assistance.




Libertarian: Libertarianism is, as the name implies, the belief in liberty. Libertarians strive for the best of all worlds - a free, peaceful, abundant world where each individual has the maximum opportunity to pursue his or her dreams and to realize his full potential.

The core idea is simply stated, but profound and far-reaching in its implications. Libertarians believe that each person owns his own life and property, and has the right to make his own choices as to how he lives his life - as long as he simply respects the same right of others to do the same.

Another way of saying this is that libertarians believe you should be free to do as you choose with your own life and property, as long as you don't harm the person and property of others.

Libertarianism is thus the combination of liberty (the freedom to live your life in any peaceful way you choose), responsibility (the prohibition against the use of force against others, except in defense), and tolerance (honoring and respecting the peaceful choices of others).

Live and let live. The Golden Rule. The non-initiation of force.


Now first conservatives have strayed so far from their roots in some aspects as defined above. First when it comes to government they look at it as big and wasteful and that the government should keep a tight budget. Well when you look at history we see below that the conservatives are the one who is spending big...no tight budget.



Now the reason why their deficits are so high is because of this obsession with lower taxes (Which I think ALL of us can agree we want lower taxes) but the problem is they spend all sorts of money and then lower the taxes racking up HUGE deficits. That is some big government.

Now they also believe society should not look to government to solve problems that society should solve it. Once again they seemed to of forgot where they stand as they bail out all the big banks and big corps when times are rough but when times are good does not ask for anything in return....Capitalism on gains socialism on losses as I like to say.

They also want to keep America strong which I think we all do but conservatives believe in being the worlds policeman where as liberals think we need to take care of problems here and let the world handle their own problems.

They have also passed some of the BIGGEST anti liberty laws like the Patriot act and what not. This is once again big government at work again.

The overall conservative way is not a bad way at all in fact I used to be a conservative till I realized one day that the conservatives we have in government have strayed so far from what conservatism should be that I found myself more and more a libertarian because I am a believer in small government and individual freedoms.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Funny that the people from the mises institute (who are libertrarians) would call you a liberal because you don't believe that there is a conspiracy behind the federal reserve. In fact, they created a video similar to the money masters, but with a slightly different spin.

There is certainly a heck of a lot of conspiracy paranoia out there, but that don’ make it true.

If liberal meant open mind and real equality concerning economics then I would be a liberal.

But liberal here in America means anti capitalism, wasteful and debilitating welfare programs, bureaucracy, high taxes for those who are productive.

That’s the kind of liberalism I detest, and it’s pervasive and evil and it’s spreading like a fungus

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
..but it is my observation, having listened to the rhetoric of the two parties for many decades, that conservatives are more optimistic about the nation and it's future than are liberals...

Being "optimistic" is just words, they're meaningless and cheap. The subversion of the democratic process and the rights of the individual taking place behind the scenes is real.

Same thing goes for 'them' getting us in to something, then afterwards when the citizens are asking "why", 'their' automatic comeback is always "why worry about something that happened in the past that we can't change, let's look at ways to fix it!". It's the same thing over and over and over and.......you get the picture.

The joke's not only on me Grady, it's on you to.

Peace

[edit on 7-5-2008 by Dr Love]

A wikipedia definition of the nazi party. As you will see the only left policy was the economy while everything else was extreme right.

From wikipedia:

Nazism, commonly known as National Socialism,[1][2][3][4] (German: Nationalsozialismus), refers primarily to the ideology and practices of the Nazi Party under Adolf Hitler; and the policies adopted by the government of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945, a period also known as the Third Reich.[5][6][7][8] The official name of the party was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei[9] (NSDAP) — “National Socialist German Workers’ Party”. The Nazis were one of several historical groups that used the term National Socialism to describe themselves, and in the 1920s they became the largest such group. Nazism is generally considered by scholars to be a form of fascism, and while it incorporated elements from the political left, it formed its most solid alliances on the political right.[10]

Nazism was not a monolithic movement, but rather a (mainly German) combination of various ideologies and groups, sparked by anger at the Treaty of Versailles and what was considered to have been a Jewish/Communist conspiracy (known in the vernacular as the Dolchstoßlegende or “Stab-in-the-Back Legend”) to humiliate Germany at the end of the First World War.

Among the key elements of Nazism were anti-parliamentarism, ethnic nationalism, racism, collectivism,[11][12] eugenics, antisemitism, opposition to economic liberalism and political liberalism,[13][14][12] opposition to finance capitalism with emphasis on Jewish conspiratorial involvement,[15] anti-communism, and totalitarianism.

Just because a party calls itself socialistic does not imply it really is. Germany and Italy in the 30's/40's was certainly not and neither is/was russia, china, cuba, north korea, etc...etc.

Personally, I find it disgraceful that political extremists(both left and right) use/abuse this ideological concept to further their sick and delusional agenda!

The terms 'ethnic nationalism', 'racism', 'collectivism', 'opposition to economic liberalism and political liberalism', 'totalitarianism' and 'national socialism' are in fact ultra-right concepts aka facism!

[edit on 7-5-2008 by EarthCitizen07]

Originally posted by Dr Love

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
..but it is my observation, having listened to the rhetoric of the two parties for many decades, that conservatives are more optimistic about the nation and it's future than are liberals...

Being "optimistic" is just words, they're meaningless. The subversion of the democratic process and the rights of the individual taking place behind the scenes is real.

Same thing goes for 'them' getting us in to something, then afterwards when the citizens are asking "why", 'their' automatic comeback is always "why worry about something that happened in the past that we can't change, let's look at ways to fix it!". It's the same thing over and over and over and.......you get the picture.

The joke's not only on me Grady, it's on you to.

Peace

You mean kind of like invading Iraq?

reply to post by mybigunit


The list of examples could fill the Superdome!

Peace

reply to post by Dr Love


heh yup you have that right we debate them everyday on this site its kinda nice to have a site that is open and has all side of the debate even though anyone who disagrees with me is wrong and that is a fact

Webster's dictionary defines a liberal as:

A person who is open-minded or not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional, or established forms or ways.

A conservative is defined as:

One who adheres to traditional methods or views.

It seems to me that keeping an open mind and asking questions is the key to happiness IMHO. I guess that makes me a liberal by definition.

What if I'm pro choice and anti gun control? Does this make me a liberal/conservative ??? Am I half happy and half depressed ?!?!

It's easy to label someone as say; liberal or conservative when reaching an impasse in a political debate. Eg: "Fu%$#ng liberal, what does he know anyway." "Typical half-wit conservative, can't see the forest for the trees."
These two terms are used to affront one another. Depending on which side you're on, being called a liberal or conservative can be very offensive indeed. More examples are as follows.

If I question the establishments explanation of the twin towers collapse on 9/11 does that make me a terrorist? If I question the figure of six million dead from the holocaust am I anti-Semitic ? Am I a heretic if I don't subscribe to organized religion ? (or what I like to call "Thought Control.") Am I a Klan member if I think O.J. Simpson is guilty?

The answer is NO!!! It makes me a person who seeks the truth, wherever it may lead.

On the subject of "Are conservatives happier than liberals", I believe the statement is moot. Happiness is a unique experience to each and every individual on this planet, be they liberal, conservative, gay, straight, socialist, communist, fascist, new age, old school, pagans, christians or whatever!!!

Here we go again with the us vs. them game. Doesn't anyone get it? The perpetuation of two types of people is what has this country asleep at the wheel.

Democrats vs. Republicans. Liberals vs. Conservatives. Why can anyone just say, I'm just an independent free thinker.

I was personally a Democrat at one point in my life and later turned into a Republican. The usual "If you're not a Democrat when you're young you have no heart and if you're not a Republican when you're older you have no brains".

Then I voted for the Neocons twice (Son of a Bush, that is) and can't say I like that type or Republican, prior to waking up.

It is all a way to keep us divided. I am currently a Libertarian. If you think about it, I bet a large majority would fall in this category. I want the government off my back and my life, and I would let others do as they please, as long as it doesn't affect me. Live and let live.

We definitely need a new party. Call it the American Party or the Constitution Party. What we see is just an illusion.



[edit on 7-5-2008 by manticore]

Originally posted by xmotex
reply to post by centurion1211

 

The right simply has it's own form of "political correctness", that is quite nearly a perfect mirror image of the left's. Adherence to any political ideology requires a certain amount of willful blindness. The right is very much as PC, in it's own way, as the left, however much they've made an issue out of it.

When ideology becomes a part of your identity, it is no longer possible to look at things in a balanced way, or to make a realistic appraisal of the facts.

You have to toe the "conservative" line because it's part of your identity.
It's the same way with self-identified "liberals"...

Sorry, but you are absolutely the only person I've ever heard try to identify the right with any sort of political correctness - as everyone else understands the term* - dogma.

I'm not personally buying your argument and I seriously doubt if many (or any) others would either. Nice try, though.

* Example: you have to change the way you say everything to avoid possibly hurting someone else's feelings - a person is not short, but height-challenged BS ...

[edit on 5/7/2008 by centurion1211]

Concerning the original OP title, all that I can say is "No Brain No Pain!" BTW, I have seen polls which show that liberals on average are generally more educated than conservatives. And yes, liberals do have some conscience about such things as starting illegal wars wherein 100's of thousands of innocent civilians are killed. maimed, and misplaced (not to mention the feelings of sadness in seeing our wonderful "God fearing" neocon government promoting torture).

[edit on 7-5-2008 by whatsup]

[edit on 7-5-2008 by whatsup]

reply to post by manticore


Generally when it comes to the party system and you have heard me say this many times that dems and repubs they are all the same person different disguise. But libertarian and conservatism is a way of thought. That is different than fighting over party. Either your open minded or your stuck in your views. That is the debate here and that is debatable because it does affect the people who make the policies.