Bolton: Striking Iran 'Is Really The Most Prudent Thing To Do'»

reply to post by The Nighthawk

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No you are.


Nah, they're just a bunch of liberal whiney bullcrap.


Ask and ye shall receive:


www.gopusa.com...




Uh, he is The Decider. isn't he? And do you remember what BJ Clinton said about the government? "The purpose of government is to rein in the rights of the people"

He also said "You can't say you love your country and hate your government."




Not facts, toots, opinions. You believe everything Ahmadinejead says. He pisses on your neck and tells you it's raining, and you believe him. You hate your country.

And personal attacks are never valid. Except like in your case, when there's a hole in your bucket and that's all you have left. Groupspeak and groupthink - that's what People Like You are made of.

Personally I do believe that we should eliminate the Iranian threat. Limp wristed libs will never agree, th ey never did, they were the ones that never allaowed us to finish Nam propely and win that war. Iran is the main pillar within The Axis of Evil. Hisbollah, Hamas are their proxies in the Islamo Fascist war agianst the west. The main pillar Iarn supplies them, cut the the head off the snake and it will not bite. Take out the main pillar within The Axis of Evil.................................................Iran

I take it a lot of you don't keep up with the news here.
(By news I mean the alternative media not Faux News or CONN...)
news.yahoo.com...
www.atimes.com...

None of the serious allegations brought against Iran have bared any fruit.

When Iraq's government spokesman himself says he has yet to see any hard evidence of Iranian support for Shiite militias, I think his judgment supersedes some armchair warrior like Bolton.

It's time to see this smear campaign for what it really is. The Bush Admin crying wolf again.
Don't fall for the same people who had you believe Iraq had WMD's and supported Al-Qaeda; both statements of which turned out to be outright lies.

Their going through the same step-by-step process right out of the Republican playbook to create some half-baked pretext for war with Iran and people are actually still falling for it.
Hard to fathom...


[edit on 9/5/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira

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Take out Iran soon. Iran is the main pillar within The Axis of Evil. Imagine a ME without Iran. All the cards will fall into place. Peace and prosperity is a real possibility in the ME if the Iranian threat is eliminated. As Henry Kissenger said recently "the road out of Iraq is through Iran."

reply to post by ufoorbhunter

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Right, and do you have any basis for these allegations or are you just floating this crap around incessantly?

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira

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Iran is supplying its proxies throughout the ME with weapons to kill British and American and Israeli troops. It's a fact dood. You may be a limp wristed liberal. Iran is the main pillar within The Axis of Evil. Take out Iran and the ME looks a really better place. Ourmaninadinnerjacket was in the embassy siege, he now rules this Iranian state that doesn't play ball. Eliminate his team and we play a whole different ball game. It's a very serious option and a very easy one at that.

I simply do not understand WHAT BUSINESS the US government has, acting as global police force, to enforce its own economic hegemony.

The UN has not authorized such dictatorial powers. As a matter of fact, the US has interfered and/or intervened in the government of about 170 nations over the past two generations, as if the US Government had the Divine Authority to do so.

I doubt it. Furthermore, policies of secrecy, compartmentalization and privatisation do not make the outcome any less ruinous for the rest of the world.

Are ETs backing the US? Is that why members of the former PNAC presume to want to rule the world its way which is Zionism's way?

I wonder that too.

Pot, quit pissin' on my Kettle.



Oh yes, you're sooooo much more mature.

And now for the meat, what little there is, of your post "discrediting" the Tribune for its "liberal" coverage:




Very interesting. I did a basic Google search on Cliff Kincaid. Turns out he's the editor for Accuracy In Media (AIM), a right-wing smear group that has a history of throwing around baseless accusations against varied media outlets for what they see as "liberal bias". Among their major donors have been Texaco, Mobil Oil, and Union Carbide--certainly not the kind of people who could benefit from pro-corporate, right-wing propaganda and spin, surely?

AIM apparently has a collective hard-on for Joe McCarthy and his anti-communist witch-hunting, criticizes legitimate news articles as "left-wing" and "pro-communist", and funded by billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife, engaged in an "investigation" of Vincent Foster's suicide, contending he was "murdered" by the Clintons despite three independent reports to the contrary (including one by Anti-Clinton Head Inquisitor Ken Starr himself) and still maintains Foster was murdered, largely based on "investigative" work by Christopher W. Ruddy (which even arch-Neo-Con columnist Ann Coulter describes as a Hoax). They even have gone after Fox News for not being conservative enough.

AIM Overview

Kincaid goes so far as to claim Mark Foley, disgraced Republican pedophile, along with other gay Republicans, are actually Democratic Party undercover operatives:



Cliff Kincaid's Gay Conspiracy Theory

Oh those Scary Gay People!!

Basically Kincaid is a kook and a liar bought and paid for by right-wing extremists who gets his jollies doing smear jobs against anything and anyone his masters deem "Communist". Hardly someone I would consider a credible source to illustrate the "liberal bias" of the Chicago Tribune. Especially since they did publish an anti-Obama article on this very subject barely two weeks before Kincaid's smear:



Here's the article in case you doubt.

If you're going to smear a newspaper for its supposed bias in "covering up" for Democratic candidates, it might help if you (and Kincaid, since he's your "source") actually read the damn paper you're smearing once in a while.



Only if you believe in the "Unitary Executive" theory. By the way, "unitary Executive"=snappy catchphrase for "Dictator".



Clinton said a lot of stupid things, and did a lot of stupid things (like deregulating media ownership rules, effectively destroying career opportunities for people working in media, and allowing right-wing mega-corporations almost complete control over what we see and hear).



And he was wrong.



Like your "opinion" that Bush's lies were all made up by "whiny liberals"? You have yet to back that statement up, oh Great Master Debater. I didn't see any facts, just more smear and attacks.



Ahmadinejad isn't the one making claims here. Bolton is, based on what even the Iraqi government says is a bold-faced lie.



No, I hate what my country is doing, things that are twisting it into a vision of America very different from what I was brought up to believe in. There's a difference. We're not the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave anymore. We're the Land of the Watched and the Home of the Mindlessly Aggressive.



And yet you engage in them constantly. Way to take the high road!!



Amazing. Simply amazing. You post the Right Wing's "Talking Points" almost word-for-word, and accuse me of group-think. Again, Pot, Kettle. Do you really have anything of substance? Anything to offer? Or is this pathetic excuse for "debate" the best you can do?

[edit on 5/12/2008 by The Nighthawk]

[edit on 5/12/2008 by The Nighthawk]

No. It's an allegation. And a dubious one at best.
There is no hard proof linking the Iranian government to Shiite Militias in Iraq. Show me evidence, oh wise one.



And your probably another Republican armchair warrior. What's your point?
Does me being Liberal has anything to do with the facts major media outlets are spreading?



One word: DEBUNKED.
www.cnn.com...

Just like the "Israel off the map speech" turned out be a complete fabrication to try and smear Ahmadinejad:
www.mohammadmossadegh.com...
www.juancole.com...



Yeah damn right you'd be in a different ball game you'd be stuck in 3 quagmires instead of 2 currently.

If you think Iran would be a cakewalk compared to Iraq your seriously deluding yourself.
Iran is twice the size of the Iraq, with 3 times more people, a modernized military and far more sects, ethnic groups and civil tensions.
Iran would 10 times worse than Iraq. The country wouldn't stabilize for decades to come and all the hawks in the Bush Admin would get out of it is more Oil Revenue.

Shiites everywhere would be in uproar, the Middle Eastern powderkeg would finally blow and Bush & Co. would be seen for what they really are: imperialists motivated by sheer greed.

reply to post by ufoorbhunter

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You are absolutely correct about Iran supplying the insurgents with arms and training. There is mounting evidence to support that claim.

Ahmadinejead was in the embassy siege, and his remarks about pushing Israel into the ocean should be taken as a direct threat. He was given an opportunity to clarify his remarks in an interview, but weasel-worded his way around a direct answer:


www.mohammadmossadegh.com...

This has now thoroughly been debunked. The Iraqi government says it is not so, and even the US has now admitted its earlier claims of an Iranian source for the weapons in question were inaccurate. See this thread for details.





US Embassy Siege

ARTicles on Ahmadinejad

Considering how the embassy siege was used by the CIA and military to discredit Jimmy Carter and hand Reagan the Presidency, and that the siege was, in my view, legitimately motivated (US mucking in Iranian affairs using the Embassy as a base for espionage--don't tell me it doesn't happen) I find it hard to sympathize with the hostages and I find their testimony, given by people who have an obvious motive for revenge, less than credible.



Quite the contrary. I believe his answer was very direct. He was asked to clarify statements he allegedly made about Israel, and answered by legitimately asking the reporter if he felt that way about Palestine. In doing so he points out the xenophobic conceit and double standard of the West in its dealings with the Middle East. He's saying, "If you want to wipe out Palestine, you have no moral standing in questioning my motives toward Israel". That's a very intelligent and legitimate statement to make, regardless of who it comes from.

reply to post by The Nighthawk

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Oh, of course. Excuse me for not acknowledging that whatever Ahmadinejead says must be true and whatever news comes out of Tehran must be absolute gospel.

It is all America's fault, of course. And those horrible embassy spies. No other country would ever think of committing such crimes. /sarcasm

Why do you assume the translations of the US Government and their propaganda machine, the same people who want us at war in Iran to make even more money for the MIC, are always the God's Honest Truth? Surely they would never lie to us about what a targeted foreign head of state says in his speeches?[/sarcasm]



Doesn't matter whether they would or not. We're supposed to be the Good Guys. Moral high ground, better than our enemies, blah blah. But you don't care. America is the greatest nation ever to exist in the whole entire universe and the rest of the world should bow down to our obvious greatness while we dictate the terms of Freedom to them all, regardless of race, culture, or creed.[/sarcasm]

Uh-oh, seems like there has been a little mistake in identifying who made those weapons/ammunition!

IRAQ: The Elusive Iranian Weapons


Big OOPPPS!

Sorry about that Iran!

It's that Iraqi guys fault though! (Nice job at shifting the blame!)

It's kinda looking like this whole incident was fabricated to try to get support to attack Iran!

[edit on 5/14/2008 by Keyhole]

reply to post by The Nighthawk

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Iran is the main pillar within The Axis of Evil supplying its proxies to kill our troops every day and some people say let them have nukes lol! Jeez Iran must never be allowed modern tech when its vile regime supports terror, threatens surrounding states with death and murders its own homosexuals. Bring it on John...................................

Did you read the post above yours?

Apparently they had it WRONG and the weapons ARE NOT from Iran!

Maybe that's why they couldn't catch them bringing them in across the border!

I think he honestly can't see it. There's a disconnect in the neocon brain, like the blind spot in the human eye, that prevents them from seeing facts contrary to their philosophical beliefs. Maybe it's some kind of implant. Note the continued use of Republican talking points, as if they're being fed directly to the speech and writing portions of the brain. More war, to Hell with the poor, everyone's a terrorist or a traitor or both if they don't agree. Scary thing is people like this own guns and enjoy using them, which leads me to wonder how long until they use them on people like us?

reply to post by ufoorbhunter

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Read your post and it started me thinking: I don't think Bush is going to attack Iran unless Iran makes a major misstep. I wonder how far Bush intended to go with Iran anyway. His term is winding down now, so he won't be taking any action.

Next round of players, though - what do you think? Will McCain go after Iran? Hillary has already said she'd kick their ass. Obama said he'd make them a cup of tea and chat.

reply to post by jsobecky

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You are absolutely a sensationalist. You love to jump the gun on any issue don't you?

There is NO, I repeat, NO conclusive evidence Iran is arming Shiite sectarians in Iraq.
All the US Military rumors and allegations of state-sponsored terrorism are just that: Rumors.
They are basing this on what they think Iran would do in such a situation, not any compelling evidence they have found on the ground that the Quds Force, the Basji or any other Iranian backed military branches are smuggling weapons into Iraq.

Iraq's Government says they have yet to see any evidence:


Yahoo News

British Intel have yet to see any evidence:


Washington Post

The US has yet display any public evidence, first-hand knowledge, Intel or anything that could prove these allegations which they repeat like prayer. They got nothing on Iran and they know it:


Washington Post

I have found a dozen other reputable, common media sources who all agree on the above consensus:

Daily Star
World News
Herald Tribune
GlobalPolicy.org
MSNBC

Face facts. Bush talks tough and aggressive but behind his Hawkish facade he knows he has little substance to the sabre-rattling he does all too often.
Until evidence surfaces, please stop spreading these outright lies. America cries wolf yet again.



WRONG yet again. No proof. None whatsoever. Zip. Nada. Zero.
How many ways do you want me to put this?
What is it about the words "no proof" that Republicans just cannot seem to compute? It's like some part of their brain immediately overrides any analysis or free thinking.

The CIA themselves admit with "relative certainty" he was a NOT a hostage taker in the 1979 Embassy Crisis:


CNN

One of the top planners of the Embassy Siege himself has also stated Ahmadinejad was NOT present:


USAToday

The man in the dubious photo which has circulated around has even been positively identified, and guess what, it's NOT Ahmadinejad:


MSNBC

Please stop spreading this tripe around as you do every so often.
I see you repeating this claim on every Iran-related thread. You probably sing yourself to sleep with it at night.
Repeat it all you like, it won't come true.
Don't be so narrow-minded, I'm sure your intelligent enough to make the distinction when there is probable cause to believe something and when there's not. Your just afraid to.

Iran is training and supplying the insurgents in Iraq. They are also in bed with Syria adding to Lebanon's problems. Iran's figurehead president is Mahmoud Ahmadinejead, who was involved in the terrorist siege of the US Embassy in 1979. He was also a torturer and executioner, according to Iranian sources:



www.militantislammonitor.org...

This is directly from 4 of the hostages. There are, however, apologists who refuse to believe reality and would rather suck down Iran's propaganda that he is innocent.