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The ATS Issues Thread

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posted on May, 18 2008 @ 06:42 AM
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reply to post by LateApexer313
 


Trust me, I wanted to quote your entire post.
Iam SICK of the drama related to "The Other" messageboard.
It's here, it's there..
For pete's sake
STFU!
I've never seen so much whining and complaining, in all my life.
The rules here are clearcut, and always have been for those that read them.
Yes, sometimes we need to be reminded, as in a heated moment sometimes we get out of line.
But ATS is the best site. If you want to stay here..
FOLLOW THE RULES!
"A conspiracy behind the Conspiracy website"
GOOD GRIEF!


Edit to add, for the record, my anger was not directed at you LateApexer, in case there was some confusion there.

[edit on 18-5-2008 by AccessDenied]




posted on May, 18 2008 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by dunwichwitch
I got banned for responding to a thread entitled "Cointelpro at ATS?" by the duckster.

It was a bit more than that. As is always the case, it takes more than simply stating an opinion to get banned from ATS... it takes breaking the Terms & Conditions, usually more than once.



but you forget who's paying the operation of the site.... the advertisers, yes... are paying for advertising time on this site... but there would be no revenue for the advertisers, and thus ATS, if it were not for the members and the members feeling that this was a good place to discuss these great topics.

We have no "specific" advertisers as yet... none of the ads you see are from companies that have specifically contacted use to pay for advertising space on our site(s). We use "fill" ad networks, and if anyone would care to research, they pay something less than peanuts... but it's something.



BUT If the staff feel insecure about the honest and open discussion musings of "ATS COINTELPRO"

As you and I have discussed in private, and you seemed to accept, it's not an "insecurity" issue at all... it's an insult. Simon, Mark, and myself (among others) have staked considerable personal risk against growing this site into something that provides people with a distinctly unique and unparalleled opportunity to freely speak about almost anything, and have the confidence that millions of people will be exposed to it. It's hard work. It's a significant risk to us. And when people are having a bit of sick fun at our expense, it's an insult.



while we're at it, let's ban all dissenters of the US gov't which allows free enterprise and sites like this to exist, let's go ahead and ban everyone who says that the economy is just a control mechanism to keep our minds and our actions occupied with pointless endeavors, let's ban EVERYONE who questions the status quo that is harboring this business's existence.

Why on earth would you think we'd ever do something like that?



The dangers of corporatism is why these things are being questioned.

We've been focused on being "corporate" for about 12 months now... perhaps more as we rejected a serious buyout attempted about 15 months ago. Can you point to one single operational change in that time that has hampered a person's ability to speak their mind and get noticed on ATS? Or, even any operational change at all?



A business about denying ignorance should do just that, or else it is false advertising, and therefore illegal.

Purposefully spreading lies about us (or anyone) is the essence of ignorance. And as such, should be ignored.



other than someone has lied about me in relation to this site,

I've explained that to you in a private U2U (the staff member didn't have access to see a post-ban assignment) where you also stated you didn't want to start any public drama. So I'm curious as to why you initiated your posts?



but yes I went over there, and there was some interesting material about ATS that I took into consideration because I have had experiences of being censored in the past

As we've attempted to point out over, and over, and over again, the material is all lies based on one person's misinterpretation of an April Fools joke. It's even clearly labeled as a joke.

Since the people who are making up the lies refuse to acknowledge their silly mistake, we can only assume their goals are less-than-honrable and perhaps even childish. It's rather easy to do a simple bit of Google-search research to discover the mistake, but it's apparently more entertaining to believe the lies.


We've made no excuses about the fact that ATS isn't for everyone. In fact, I'm certain that those who can express themselves with content of value and remain within our Terms & Conditions are in the minority. It's unfortunate that people who are passionate about their ideas are unable to make civil contributions within the normal social graces you'd use in "real life," and end up getting banned. All too often they make the simple mistake that they got banned for their ideas, and not their behavior. However, we've made the decision to run ATS in a certain way, and judging by the international attention we're getting from all manner of media these days, it's working out just fine for those who can contribute with civility.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by AccessDenied
reply to post by LateApexer313
 


Trust me, I wanted to quote your entire post.
Iam SICK of the drama related to "The Other" messageboard.
It's here, it's there..
For pete's sake
STFU!
I've never seen so much whining and complaining, in all my life.
The rules here are clearcut, and always have been for those that read them.
Yes, sometimes we need to be reminded, as in a heated moment sometimes we get out of line.
But ATS is the best site. If you want to stay here..
FOLLOW THE RULES!
"A conspiracy behind the Conspiracy website"
GOOD GRIEF!


Edit to add, for the record, my anger was not directed at you LateApexer, in case there was some confusion there.

[edit on 18-5-2008 by AccessDenied]


Didn't you give the link to the other site to some ATS members?
If so your post is the height of hypocrisy.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by sinema
 


There are those in the know, and there are those that are not.
There are also spies.
I know exactly what you are.

Follow me around all you like.
I care not.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by AccessDenied
 


WTH??

CREEPY!!!



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by sinema

Originally posted by AccessDenied
reply to post by LateApexer313
 


Trust me, I wanted to quote your entire post.
Iam SICK of the drama related to "The Other" messageboard.
It's here, it's there..
For pete's sake
STFU!
I've never seen so much whining and complaining, in all my life.
The rules here are clearcut, and always have been for those that read them.
Yes, sometimes we need to be reminded, as in a heated moment sometimes we get out of line.
But ATS is the best site. If you want to stay here..
FOLLOW THE RULES!
"A conspiracy behind the Conspiracy website"
GOOD GRIEF!


Edit to add, for the record, my anger was not directed at you LateApexer, in case there was some confusion there.

[edit on 18-5-2008 by AccessDenied]


Didn't you give the link to the other site to some ATS members?
If so your post is the height of hypocrisy.




hypocrisy

noun
1. an expression of agreement that is not supported by real conviction
2. insincerity by virtue of pretending to have qualities or beliefs that you do not really have


I have been a loyal ATS member since day one. There is NO hypocrisy in that statement ANYWHERE. One occasion, I was reminded of rules. I never argued, I never cried foul.
This subject, has by far, gone on long enough.
Iam proud to be a member here. I care not what you do there.
I made my choice, you all made yours.
Live with it.
Enough said.

Oh yes..edit to add..
I don't have to worry about former friends calling me nasty names here.
Grow the hell up.

[edit on 18-5-2008 by AccessDenied]



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
I got banned for responding to a thread entitled "Cointelpro at ATS?" by the duckster.

It was a bit more than that. As is always the case, it takes more than simply stating an opinion to get banned from ATS... it takes breaking the Terms & Conditions, usually more than once.


Doesn't this backup the poster's claim. Looks that way from over here. Could it be that the the words 'Banned' on the profile only make it more official.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by Djarums
I'm not sure if you're familiar with forum software or not but the simple fact is we do not need to "monitor" u2us to set a filter up that blocks a url from being sent.


Yes I am familiar with forum software... so I know it is very easy to read 'anything' if the desire is there... I even ran my own BBS back in the day...

So I guess this is an admission that you do filter the site in question


I was trying to be discrete, and not get banned for asking the wrong question, however I really do wish to know if U2U's are on occasion being read... as many times lately my U2U's have shown that they were read, when I have not been on yet... and I have missed several as I count on the highlight to show me new mail...

Now I have already had a question deleted and had my password reset because I asked a 'wrong question' in the new hot Robbie Williams UFO thread... so considering the amount of effort I have put into ATS (for free... I have never received nor asked for ad revenues like some) over the last year and the promotion I give freely on my own site, I have reason to be 'concerned'

I have several other questions, particularly about threads that were deleted for no apparent reason, but I will ask that one privately first...

However I have received several emails from persons that have not been banned as such, but have had password resets and are not able to log in...

Now as I have nothing but their word that they don't know why... other than it happened after making a certain post... there MAY be a valid reason...

But many of these members... if they didn't return... would sadly not be missed by many as they made no big splash while here... and since they cannot log back in... nor show as banned... they have no voice... and their membership still is 'active'

As I said I have 'concerns'

[edit on 18-5-2008 by zorgon]



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by AccessDenied
reply to post by sinema
 


There are those in the know, and there are those that are not.
There are also spies.
I know exactly what you are.

Follow me around all you like.
I care not.


Good lord.
Follow you around?
Spies?
Do you think you are in a James Bond movie?



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by sinema
 


ATS can be like one big James Bond or Star Wars movie sometimes....



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 



So I guess this is an admission that you do filter the site in question


Yes, that's correct. To partake in "full disclosure" I will inform you that numerous requests were made for certain people not to use our chat room and forum as a recruiting tool (as clearly stated in our T&C) and those requests were completely disregarded. A simple script was put into place to remove the URL to the site that was being recruited for and it was replaced with a blank space.

There are numerous sites that are allowed to be advertised here, in signatures, in posts etc. We ask that people do it the right way.

If you have any other questions, please just ask and I'll answer them to the best of my ability.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by Djarums
If you have any other questions, please just ask and I'll answer them to the best of my ability.


Just this one... from the previous post...


however I really do wish to know if U2U's are on occasion being read... as many times lately my U2U's have shown that they were read, when I have not been on yet... and I have missed several as I count on the highlight to show me new mail...


That would be all for now...

Thanks



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 02:01 PM
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Certainly.

As we've stated previously, the staff is incapable of reading u2us. That goes for staff members at all levels including Administrators such as myself.

There is one person who is able to actually go into the u2u database which resides on the server, and do a manual search of the text based database (which is ridiculously time consuming as anyone with such database experience can agree with) and that is SkepticOverlord.

This has been done in a few select cases, for example when members report a threat made by a fellow member etc. but in my years as a staff member I can count these instances on one hand.

Incidentally because we are unable to read u2u's and the only way to read them is via the database itself, those u2u's would not show up as being read when the member opens their inbox.

At this point all I can really say regarding the accusations of reading u2u's is that a similar question could be asked regarding any service on the internet. Can AIM read your IM's, can hotmail read your email? Well... you're sending it through their service so it goes on some server somewhere. The answer is yes. Do they? Considering how much of a ridiculous pain in the rear end it is, no.

I hope that helps... again, I'm around if you have any other questions.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by sinema
 


Your presence here, in this thread, and your reply to my post..
SPEAKS VOLUMES.
I live in the real world.
Do YOU?



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
So I guess this is an admission that you do filter the site in question

Lots of things are filtered in posts and U2U's as the same filtering-system processes both. However, we do not, nor have we ever, "monitored" the private u2u messages of our members. (However, we have, on occasion, queried specific messages when we receive complaints)



Now I have already had a question deleted and had my password reset because I asked a 'wrong question' in the new hot Robbie Williams UFO thread...

If your account was "reset" by administrative action... how did you log back in? Are you sure it wasn't something as simple as your cookie expiring?



However I have received several emails from persons that have not been banned as such, but have had password resets and are not able to log in...

Why are these people emailing you, and not me (through the site contact form) to inquire as to what the issue might be?



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
However, we do not, nor have we ever, "monitored" the private u2u messages of our members. (However, we have, on occasion, queried specific messages when we receive complaints)


I will accept your word on that, but can you then at least explain to me why my U2U's show up as 'read' before I have viewed them? I am not the only one who has noticed this... and it does lead to suspicion of 'peeking'. I would appreciate clarification...



Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
If your account was "reset" by administrative action... how did you log back in?


Requested a new password... it did not accept it the first time, but did the second... I do not know who or why it was reset just that it was... hence the reason for bring it up in the 'issues' thread



Are you sure it wasn't something as simple as your cookie expiring?


My cookies have never expired once since I registered March 8, 2005... I suppose it is coincidence that it expired within minutes of my question being deleted




Why are these people emailing you, and not me (through the site contact form) to inquire as to what the issue might be?


Apparently they have tried and have had no response... that is the common reason given... I of course have no way to verify this... hence why I mentioned it here, hopefully to find understanding...



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Lots of things are filtered in posts and U2U's as the same filtering-system processes both.


Filters can be used for many purposes..

I use filters in my email program and it is a great way to filter out any junque mail, but I can also use those filters to search for key words that drop that email into a box based on that word...

Just as the NSA can do looking for key words to flag emails...




posted on May, 18 2008 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
at least explain to me why my U2U's show up as 'read' before I have viewed them?

It's a long-standing bug from the legacy XMB code I still haven't been able to properly track down. The same issue effects the U2U button being lit when you've read all your U2U's.



Requested a new password... it did not accept it the first time, but did the second... I do not know who or why it was reset just that it was... hence the reason for bring it up in the 'issues' thread

If you were "reset" you'd not be able to request a new password as your email would have been blanked out (the pinnacle of banning). Since you were able to request a new password, it's likely that you're cookie just expired. Our cookies all expire in 30 days... it happens to me also... I'll post, then BAM, I'm logged out.



Apparently they have tried and have had no response... that is the common reason given... I of course have no way to verify this... hence why I mentioned it here, hopefully to find understanding...

I've looked through the past week of contact emails, and there's none like this. Are they saying they're using the contact form?



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 04:10 PM
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I think everyone is aware this is a privately owned site. And a very well run one at that. I believe it's a case study in how to build member driven content site. Right there with Youtube and Myspace, just not with the broad mass appeal. The legwork behind the scenes has to be absolutely incredible.

With that being said if it weren't for the public it wouldn't exist as such a force in the alternative community. If it weren't for members providing incredible content The Amigo's wouldn't be rubbing elbows with celebrities, wouldn't have an entity to even organize as a business and sooner or later possibly reap quite nice profits from. There's nothing better than making money from something you enjoy.

I think member driven content sites are more a symbiotic relationship than anything. If it weren't for the work behind the scenes running and providing the overhead for ATS the members wouldn't have such a great place to learn and share ideas. And without the members ATS could never have grown or been enabled to do the things it's now capable of.

In reality our payment is in page views and ad-clicks. Time is money, and we choose to spend time here, rather than elsewhere on the net. Furthermore the greater "payment" members give the site is the amazing content that they provide.

Basically, if you don't appreciate how things are going here - just stop. If you feel the product being offered isn't worth what you put into it, don't. And what members need to realize - if they're more of a burden, or even dangerous to the operation of the site - then you're going to get cut like a cancer before it gets too big. I think that's the understanding that all involved needs to come to!

It's kind of an economy of ideas, really. And that's the wave of the future.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by PistolPete
 


My Gosh. If i could Applaud you, I would.



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