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The ATS Issues Thread

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posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by blowfishdl
Actually I found the real, and original privacy policy here.

Clearly, that is the old policy which has been updated long ago. (I modified the post to contain a link to the official policy.)




It notes that it records IP addresses, and does not address the concern of sharing the IP address' of it's visitors.

1 - We don't record the IP addresses of visits, just posts.

2 - What part of this statement, "we never use or share the personally identifiable information provided to us," is unclear to you?


If that is the case, then why is it not stated as so in either privacy policy?



Wig

posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
It's not deleted, just locked.
It is deleted, it was on the first page of this board & it was locked, but now it has gone completely, if that is not deleted I don't know what is. Click on the link, you will see that it now leads to an invalid page error.



From time to time, there will be important messages of interest to most members,


I rather think you must have a very strange definition of "Important, official messages". Sending them out under a guise of "ATS admin" is really disingenuous. Why don't you just say it as it is, they are spam messages which really should be offered on a opt in/out subscription basis only.

And my point about the deleted thread, was that now it is deleted hardly any other users are going to see my post and have the chance to think about it, and agree with me, thus giving you proper feedback on just how many of your users don't want the spam.



[edit on 26/11/2008 by Wig]



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by blowfishdl
If that is the case, then why is it not stated as so in either privacy policy?

It is very clearly stated... in the old policy you linked, and...

The Official Privacy Policy


Finally, we never use or share the personally identifiable information provided to us online in ways unrelated to the ones described above. Your profile information is protected from web-spiders that search for e-mail addresses and other personal information. We reserve the right to disclose any personally identifiable information associated with your account and/or posting history as required by law and when we believe that disclosure is necessary to protect our rights and/or comply with a judicial proceeding, court order, or legal process served on The Above Network, LLC.



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Wig
And my point about the deleted thread, was that now it is deleted hardly any other users are going to see my post and have the chance to think about it, and agree with me, thus giving you proper feedback on just how many of your users don't want the spam.

I hadn't realized the thread was removed... a great deal many things happen on ATS, and it's impossible to be aware of all of them.

Unfortunately, your tolerance for our occasional mass-U2Us is exceptionally low. In that case, perhaps we're not the best venue for your online discussion participation?



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


That may seem like a very good 'catch all' but it very much leaves the legal door cracked for ATS to disclose IP information.

This is how the e-mail protection is described:


We use the e-mail address you provided to confirm your discussion board password. Your addresses are not used for any other purpose other than registration for the AboveTopSecret.com email newsletters, and will never be shared with outside parties and are not viewable by unregistered members.


Yet the IP protection does not state that it will not be shared with outside parties. Instead it merely states that it records your IP.


We use the information you provided about yourself at registration to authorize your access when you post messages on our discussion forum. We also record IP address you're using at the time of each posted messages.


Is there any way we can include similar verbiage to protect IP distribution?



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by blowfishdl
Is there any way we can include similar verbiage to protect IP distribution?


The IP is considered "personally identifiable information," and as such, covered in the previously quoted portion of the privacy policy.

Our privacy policy has been authored with the assistance of legal council aware of our high-standard of privacy protection, and also reviewed and certified by TRUSTe. You have my unqualified personal assurance as CEO of the company that owns ATS that IP information has never, and will never be shared unless we receive a court order, and even then, we will resist until all options are exhausted.


Wig

posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


Does it not occur to you that if you mostly send out unimportant advertising messages about various areas of ATS, that you are conditioning your users who don't want to read them into deleting messages from "ATS admin" without opening them. So that when you do genuinely want to communicate something to your users that is important you run the risk of them deleting it without reading it? IMO that's not a very good strategy for your administration team to use.



posted on Nov, 26 2008 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by blowfishdl
Is there any way we can include similar verbiage to protect IP distribution?


The IP is considered "personally identifiable information," and as such, covered in the previously quoted portion of the privacy policy.


Forgive me for beating a dead horse but an IP is only considered PII when identified as so. I suppose the terms generally cover our arse, and given the word of the C.E.O. I will metaphorically put my foot in my mouth after this one last point.

An Internet Protocol address is very rarely considered PII as covered in any TOS generally because it is in the public records of any website server and is not legally considered private information. I could steal your IP address and not violate any law - because this is how information reaches your desktop.

I will stand down however seeing as how you will not budge on the topic, and have given your personal word as CEO of ATS.



posted on Nov, 27 2008 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by blowfishdl
An Internet Protocol address is very rarely considered PII as covered in any TOS generally because it is in the public records of any website server and is not legally considered private information.

Except that, we don't record the IP addresses of visitors, and the IP addresses of members who post are not stored in any public way.

WE treat YOUR IP is if it is personally identifiable information. And act accordingly.



posted on Nov, 27 2008 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by Wig
 

That is each and every member's right and risk. If the occasional promotion of things we create for our membership bothers you so horridly then by all means please delete any "ATS ADMIN" u2u that hits your in box, we'd hate to cause you any further distress or annoyance.


For the vast majority of our members (the 139,000+ other members who don't have a problem with it) it's simply not that big of a deal. Many actually appreciate the "heads up" when it is about something that may interest them, like a new book co-published by ATS.


Springer...



posted on Nov, 27 2008 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by Springer
 


Happy thanksgiving Spring,
You know what I would be thankful for?
Getting rid of this horrible beige on the sides of the page.

Please?



posted on Nov, 27 2008 @ 11:49 AM
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hee hee. Sdog, you and I have similar taste in margins.... lol

I don't like it either!!



posted on Nov, 27 2008 @ 12:23 PM
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Hey Guys


Just a question.... I don't normally hit the "board" button at the top of the page, but I was over in BTS, and did, and noticed a few times now that the Board page, hasn't changed in a long time... Is that maybe a glitch or something?

- Carrot

SDog - aren't you color blind?



posted on Nov, 27 2008 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by CA_Orot

SDog - aren't you color blind?




I am now!
On account of the brightness.


Wig

posted on Nov, 27 2008 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by Springer
For the vast majority of our members (the 139,000+ other members who don't have a problem with it) it's simply not that big of a deal.
Springer...


Well You are claiming something you have little authority to claim. The vast majority of your members have not been given the opportunity to say if they would rather be able to turn the spam off. And as I pointed out earlier, my thread on this was closed and deleted, thus not allowing other members to read it, consider it, and agree or disagree.

As it happens, within the first 4 people who replied before it got closed & deleted, there was someone else who did agree with me.

[edit on 27/11/2008 by Wig]



posted on Nov, 27 2008 @ 05:19 PM
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Hi ATS Staff,

I'm sure everyone must be very busy, but when you have the time, please review my posts in the thread,

Steven Greer claims he vectored in the Phoenix lights UFOs!

Now I can already hear you going "Ugh! Not ANOTHER Greer thread!", but I would very much like everyone to see the idea I've been trying to put forth for you in that thread. I think you'll like it a lot - especially when you get to see the overunity energy devices in action for yourselves!


I am exceedingly anxious to see what ATS has to say about it - especially Springer.

With tremendous respect, loyalty and love,
-JEDI-



posted on Nov, 27 2008 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by Wig
Well You are claiming something you have little authority to claim.


You're showing some interesting attitude towards the owners -- something YOU have little authority to do. Springer, as one of the owners has just as much authority to "claim" anything he chooses when it comes to this website. Remember, we just play here -- they own the park.

I read your thread - and I can understand what you're saying. But you know what? Those messages go automatically out to the last (insert magical number here) number of members that were on in the (insert magical time period here). If I understand you correctly - you want to be able to turn that option off?

Now, I'm on here almost every day. It isn't too often that I miss a day - and You know, I've only gotten 2 of those automatic messages in the past month or so. Both were for the new book - which I am interested in. I don't know what kind of spam YOU are getting, but TWO emails from the Admin in the past month or two is NOT a big deal in my opinion.

- Carrot


Wig

posted on Nov, 27 2008 @ 05:39 PM
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Springer, as one of the owners has just as much authority to "claim" anything he chooses


He claimed to know what some 139,000 people thought on this issue -in an attempt to belittle me, much like his counterpart did- when he did not have the authority to do so. The word "authority" has more than 1 meaning.

If you got an "administration message" about a new book that was published, that is exactly the kind of spam I refer to. The frequency is not the issue. I don't want them, I make a point that I think they are disingenuous, and voice my objection, along with logical argument that ATS in doing this, condition people into deleting what could one day -heaven forbid- actually be a truly important message. They don't care, because they want to continue to spam the members, and don't want to know what their members truly think on this issue.

And that's all there is to it.






[edit on 27/11/2008 by Wig]



posted on Nov, 27 2008 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by CA_Orot
 


I have to agree with you here CA, I was a little confused as to what spam was being spoken about, I thought maybe I wasn't getting some. I've just had a look at my u2u's I haven't deleted any and there are 5 going back to the beginning of November, The ATS mix,the book and the one about the video secion, that's not much really.



posted on Nov, 27 2008 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by Wig
 


I won't pretend to know what Springer implied by his statement, but, I would assume (going out on a limb here) that you are probably one of the only members to bring this issue up. Hence, that would provide reason to believe that the other 139,000 + of us, don't really care all that much about them -- otherwise something might have been said earlier.

The U2U inbox, is for ATS Mail only (from members, admin, mod's etc)...is it not? Now, do you really have so much traffic running through your inbox that getting the occasionally rare message from Admin, cramps your style? (As whoiswatchingwho said, there have been 5 emails from Admin)... Or are you talking about your personal account? The one you signed up with that recieves the newsletters...? Because I'm sure THAT can be fixed on your end.

- Carrot


[edit on 11/27/2008 by CA_Orot]



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