The ATS Issues Thread

Originally posted by Woland
I hope the Three Amigos get this right, I truly do, because a globally respected ATS would be a wonderful thing.

Since when have we done things "the easy way?"

In fact, we've passed on two opportunities to "take the easy" way. In the past three years, there have been several offers from various entities to partner with, or buyout ATS... and two scenarios where the buyout was reasonably attractive and contained employment contracts and clear paths to growth into multiple media outlets. But both had alarming potential to dilute or crater the "ATS Vision" of a user-generated mass media company. So here we are, cutting our own path through the tall razor-sharp weeds.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


And for what it's worth, keep it up.



I for one am proud of ATS, and I'm proud to be a member here. I don't expect anything from you guys, and yet I continue to receive great things.

Too many people take what we have here for granted, and that's a shame.

Don't want to come off as a brown-noser here so I will stop.

But keep it up all the same.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

I haven't spent as much time here recently as I'd like.

I still browse on and off during the day but I'm not posting as much.

That's why I can say with 100% honesty that I really do like this place - the fact that I miss it when I don't get my fix.

I do have a bit of a bug up my ass about something, but I'd rather not go into it in a public forum.

This Question is in regards to moved threads.

Is it possible to have the move posted in the OP
or when it is moved within the thread.

I think we all would appreciate knowing this.

Thanks for any consideration.

reply to post by The Utopian Penguin


Why? The discussion is supposed to be about the topic, not why the thread was first posted in a wrong forum, and then moved to a more appropriate one. It would do more harm than good, imo.

reply to post by Hellmutt


Agreed - anytime I've had a thread moved, I was able (if appropriate) to contact the mod in question and ask why it had been moved.

For the most part, the reasons were spot on, and it helped me to better organise my posting habits and so have a better time - often learning things I otherwise would have missed.

When I first joined, I had a little drama about this, but it was resolved in a manner which I found typical of ATS - with courtesy and with admirable honesty, by springer.

We have to remember that mods get HUGE amounts of u2u's to answer, as well as modding duties - all done for free.

IMO it's high time that some of us started to try and appreciate it a little more.

It may not be perfect, but it's better than pretty much anywhere else

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Please, don't think that I'm implying that ATS take "the easy way", nor do I think that you have any obligation to defend your decisions. I sincerely wish you all the best as you attempt to hack through the weeds but hope that you hold no delusions about the cruelty of commercialism.

Good luck; I look forward to future of ATS.

Im not kissing arse here but my God man have you seen the levels that the Three Amigos have gone through to get this site to point it is today?

All the time you hear of individuals loosing their lives and their livelihoods to spread the truth. Even on this site we have all seen nobody's been followed and spied on, can you imagine being one of the Three? Pretty damn brave if you ask me. What separates the Three Amigos from that reality? They continue to provide the best all around site for the money, none to you and me.

This is a network of every type of person on the planet, all nations welcome and desired, respected. It must be a huge huge responsibility to keep it all together up and running. I would NOT want that responsibility.

I think I understand what you were trying to bring forward , I just don't think you thought it through very well.

There does seem to be a lot of ego stroking and arse kissing going on in here lately. However, I have to say that I enjoy coming onto ATS and swapping theories about the latest conspiracies and putting the world to rights! Thats why we're all here; Right?I have learnt though that there is a total sense of humour failure when it comes to posting and I think that's a shame. It may be down to the different cultures that meet on here? Maybe it's simply down to Americas "Irony deficiency?"
Whatever the reason, because I've grown to respect those who post on ATS, and those who run and manage it, I'm happy to comply to the rules.

reply to post by Woland

Considering the backgrounds S.O. and I come from prior to devoting our lives and our livelihoods to ATS you can BET we know full well what "cruelties" commercialism is capable of.

That aside, without revenue this site is dead tomorrow, the only REALLY honest way to raise that revenue is through adverts. The adverts combined with our strict code that we will NEVER alter or limit content to satisfy an investor or advertiser assures everyone that what you see is what you get.

Anyone who takes the time to do a little research can easily find this in writing on our LLC page in the "Advertiser" section.

The most ironic part about the whole "selling out mythology" is, what advertiser or much less investor would want to destroy that which makes the site successful in the first place?! I have never understood the utter breakdown in critical thinking required to jump to the assumption that an investor would demand that we destroy that which made the investment attractive in the first place.

Anyone who sought to control the flow of information would use dastardly means of doing so, they wouldn't offer us money to throw down the toilet.

Doesn't matter either way, we've already turned down money that would make most people dance in the street because they wouldn't have to work another day in their lives for less that that.

Springer...

[edit on 9-19-2008 by Springer]

Just noticed some of the earlier posts, and thought there are some additional issues that deserve a response...

Originally posted by dodgygeeza
Once again corporate matters and income overtake the seeking of the truth - we've seen it all before on forums that grow so big. Unfortunately everyone has their price.

This statement is somewhat insulting, and has no basis in reality. As many supportive members have seen, we've sacrificed a great deal to build ATS into what it is now, and what we hope it could become. I've been making my primary living through online technologies/advertising since 1988, and while a VP of an advertising firm, help lots of companies achieve significant revenue goals online. I'm intimately familiar with dozens of other ways to make much more money with much less effort online... but this, community building, is my passion. Fictional "corporate matters" aren't a factor.

The way they attached themselves to Robbie Williams when he joined their forums was at first a bit sad, but now I see why - having struck a deal with the "William Morris Agency" since his involvement!!

Robbie was lurking on ATS a great deal long before we knew he was interested in our topics. He had nothing to do with our representation by The William Morris Agency, and that aspect of our long-term business building began long before we knew Robbie was interested in ATS.

I have given a lot of free publicity to ATS over the years on my radio show and now on my TV show and am upset at the awful way I have been treated of late.

We had never asked Ross for any advertising, nor was it expected. I'm had always assumed that whatever mention he gave was out of appreciation for providing him a free, moderated discussion forum on a highly popular website.

Very well said, ATS is getting into a bad habit of removing certain "undesirable" members of the community.

Ross was in no way "undesirable" by any stretch of the imagination. We would not be extending nearly three years of a dedicated forum if he were. As stated previously we simply needed to curtail his broadcast activities related to the ATS brand... we never anticipated this reaction, or losing him as a member.



I hope that helps define some of the outstanding items.

Relative to the issue of nomadrush...

I am curious, was this deal with William Morris Agency something the PTB at ATS discussed with nomadrush to find out his thoughts and perspectives before it was agreed to enter into this deal? Was nomadrush given any kind of heads up?

Or was the deal done and then it was plopped into nomadrush's lap?

If the former, I would say that nomadrush has behaved poorly and has no grace - or leg to stand on.

But if it was the latter, I must ask, what did you EXPECT he would think of this news? How would YOU react if you had an agreement with others and those others decided to make a deal that broke the agreement you had with them without discussing things with you first - and then basically said, Sorry, dude, we've moved on - see ya, bye!

So which was it, guys?

[edit on 9/19/2008 by Amaterasu]

reply to post by Amaterasu


Can someone just take a minute to go over all this contrevercy involving nomadrush, please? And what exactly does have to do with the self proclaimed King Of Stoke, Robbie Williams?
"I'm confused.com!"

I am tired of people bitching about ATS so called commercialism.
If you haven't noticed it's abovetopsecret.COM not abovetopsecret.ORG.

How do you think this website is available to anyone FREE of charge.
Perhaps those who complain would like to make donations. No? I didn't think so.

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Relative to the issue of nomadrush...

Was nomadrush given any kind of heads up?

Well by what he posted that was against the T&C that I read before it was removed, without a doubt he was informed and given a heads up and in no way was it said harshly/rude or otherwise.

Though its also understandable that his feelings were hurt,but also in no way should he have taken this so personally,because it is not something personal toward him.

Ever gotten a new job for something bigger and better?..I know I have,this situation is no different than that basically and how nomadrush can jump to the conclusion that by doing so must mean they (ATS) or anyone else have sold out to the truth to me would be insulting.

Many people as I have witnessed in life and on ATS react badly in circumstances which do not warrant it.This was another example to me of this happening.

For the many things he wrote in his farewell post which were wrong on so many levels,I hope one day he can see all this for what it is and admit he reacted badly when he needn`t have.

I wish him well however in his life and radio show etc,even if he so chooses to not apologize for over reacting.

Well, for what it is worth, and I have said this before..... the "radio Division" spends thousands of hours to create the sister shows ATS MIX, BTS MIX and Above Politics. None of us gets PAID anything to do this. Without exception, each of us knew that we were investing in AboveTopSecret.Com because we wanted to get the message out from our intelligent community here beyond the narrow minded mainstream media. Additionally, like the Mod Squad who are Members First & Mods Second, they too get paid Zippity Do Dah for the hundreds of hours of their free time that each of them dedicates themselves to. It is real easy to throw stones when you, yourself, haven't Stood A Post or walked in our shoes.

And speaking on behalf of Dave Rabbit Only.... one day, I hope all of the efforts, all of the sacrifices, all of the dedication will bring us to a day that the Vision and Dream that was made where our members will receive the ultimate in recognition, respect and satisfaction that each of them deserve.

One last thing.... the ATS Investigation Team made the effort to bring the truth to our members in a simple format to allow them to make their own judgments. My partner, Johnny Anonymous, has literally put his entire life on hold to bring what was captured to our members and guests. Johnny, like the rest of us, is doing this because he wants to find the truth... regardless of how it tests his own belief system.... and he is doing it for the members, as well as his self.

IMEO, of course.

Dave

[edit on 9/19/2008 by Dave Rabbit]

I agree that people should not be publicizing their own websites and things on ATS. In my opinion, people should be as neutral as possible... and people who break T&C and use ATS to advertise might as well be advertising elsewhere and paying money for it.

But just one thing that did kind of astonish me, and I don't know of any ATS guidelines regarding it and this is the first time in the number of years that I've been on here that I heard of it... but if you post a thread and it is moved to RATS... can you really not access it? That is a tad absurd...

I have seen it stated many times by the Amigos that profit is not their primary concern here. Earlier in this thread an Amigo stated that ATS has turned down more than one offer because it would compromise the integrity of this website. They keep stating that money is a secondary concern. It takes money to run the web site but they are not looking to get rich.

O.K.

I have also come to the conclusion, after many years of lurking, that the Amigos are very intelligent and very business savvy. I think we can all agree to that.

Since the primary purpose of ATS is (in theory) to serve the public in an educational, scientific, and literary fashion, and earning a profit is not the primary purpose of the Above Network LLC, this begs the question -

Why did the Above Network choose to become a For Profit Organization instead of becoming a Not For Profit Organization?