The ATS Issues Thread

Originally posted by '___'eed
IT IS ABSURD when I could not get a MOD to Delete my OWN thread ON MY REQUEST while he deletes my own posts on the SAME THREAD I tried to get him to delete (see thread www.abovetopsecret.com... ).

Did you contact the staff by using the Alert/Complaint feature, or did you just randomly post in the thread - in all caps - generally instructing "someone" to remove the thread?

Just curious.

OK so I just read nomadrush's blog and saw the reasoning given to why he has been banned. Absolutely disgraceful. For shame ATS for shame.

Censorship and moderation aside, the reasoning given is blatent corporatism and brand ownership. Disgusting.

reply to post by Gemwolf


I used the alert button and gave my request for removal and why.
he responded to me and did not remove the post. I sent him 4 more U2U's to please remove and he didn't.

I then resulted to my own thread stating "I have requested this thread to be removed" about 6-8 times with his name posted. Those posts were removed by him, with my original thread remaining.

[edit on 19-9-2008 by '___'eed]

reply to post by Skyfloating


Don't watch the Economy much? I believe they are a Bank... ATS may not collapse financially, but I seen what happens when forums are over-moderated.

reply to post by Kryties


Again: I would suggest that we all sit tight to hear both sides of the story before we start throwing accusations either way.

I hope ATS realise they can't pull this kinda crap on it's community without somekind of backlash.

Not the best community to try and censor is it? We're a loud bunch don't you know?

Originally posted by '___'eed
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

Don't watch the Economy much? I believe they are a Bank... ATS may not collapse financially, but I seen what happens when forums are over-moderated.

Right...the bank. I must have been sleeping on that one.

*Sigh*....some complain Forums are under-moderated, others say they are over-moderated.

Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I see we have a forum moderator starting and participating in a OFF-TOPIC POST.

dictionary.reference.com...

Originally posted by '___'eed
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

I see we have a forum moderator starting and participating in a OFF-TOPIC POST.

dictionary.reference.com...

Be sure to alert that culprit to staff

That will do guys.

This isn't getting anyone anywhere. I suggest we put the accusations on hold until we have more information.

reply to post by Gemwolf


I agree with Gemwolf. Let's just let this lie and see what the other side of the story is. I am sure it will be very interesting.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I still love you Skyfloating...Like a brother/sister whatever you are.

Excuse me from jumping out of nowhere but i had to comment about something simple that Skyfloating said about forums being under/over-moderated,"Damned if you do, damned if you dont. "

He's kinda right ya know.
It reminded me that i had once whined too about way-to-silly topics appearing from thin air.

This whole thing is very interesting and i'll keep an eye on it as a pure lurker since i have no opinion about it (duh!) but i have to agree that sometimes the mods are in a difficult position with half of us demanding something and the other half of us demanding quite the opposite.

I gotta agree though that when i saw the whole "Robbie Williams" thing being around i didn't actually loved it.


Bleh,time will show.

Take care guys! (and ladies offcourse )

I'm shocked and saddened by Ross's astonishingly unprofessional stance and untruthful statements.

Some 32 months ago, Ross approached us regarding his broadcast efforts. We agreed that it would be beneficial to the entire community of "alternative subjects" to lend a helping hand for his efforts and provide him a dedicated forum, for free (something we never did before as it's typically a fee -- example: the forum for the A&E show about Atlantis). In that time, we've been fully supportive of his use of the forum as a place to promote his show on our very high-profile and highly-trafficked site.

As many people know, since our November 5th, 2007 event, we've been working on several ways to expand the content of our members into other areas (and we've actually been working on television for much longer than that). A few others have learned that, about seven months ago, our representation by the New York Office of the William Morris Agency had begun. Very recently, a deal was completed with an international production firm for a project that is the culmination of all the exceptionally hard work Simon, Mark, myself, our staff, and our members have put into ATS. As is typical of these types of deals, there is a "channel exclusivity" that needs to be worked out... the short version: our "brand" cannot provide official promotional support for other television shows in the same genre as ATS, during the term of the deal. Very normal.

We reached out to Ross to alert him to this, and the need to work out a graceful shut-down of his dedicated forum. In no way did we ever consider it would be the end of our long-standing mutual relationship, and we fully expected him to remain a member of ATS in good standing, and continue to be active as "a member with a TV show," just not a special status member with a "dedicated forum for his TV show."

His unprofessional response is nothing short of astonishing.


added...

This issue "seemed" to escalate unusually as Ross appeared to take his cause public while he knew I and other admin were sound asleep here in the U.S. Our staff did their best to put things on hold until morning (EST), but Ross' insistence on posting multiple threads (including posts that contained private staff U2Us, a T&C violation), resulted in his posting ban. It could have gone differently.


[edit on 19-9-2008 by SkepticOverlord]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I so understand, now! It's just "business." You must conform to your contract.

It's sad that you can no longer allow the advertising relationship you had, but it is, again, totally understandable.

Time to move on, and be grateful for what you did have.

reply to post by AboveTopSecret.com


I agree too, but haven't read any other post yet, so I will withhold judgement.

Originally posted by dodgygeeza
Once again corporate matters and income overtake the seeking of the truth - we've seen it all before on forums that grow so big. Unfortunately everyone has their price.

I have enjoyed my time on ATS, and when I joined it, it was a great forum, unfortunately as I leave it I believe it is not.

Ross

Something is in the air here, and Im not sure what it is. From censorship to advertising, it appears that ATS needs to listen to its members and get off its high chair before it doesn't have any legs.

He said it...with

Originally posted by dodgygeeza
we've seen it all before on forums that grow so big. Unfortunately everyone has their price

Touche

reply to post by HIFIGUY

I take exception to the "high chair" statement. We have been working our hearts out, risking our personal security (money) and pulling out all the stops for over four years now and the goal has always been to bring as much recognition and attention to what our members are saying as possible.

It seems every time we make a a little headway or move forward in a meaningful way there is always someone who misunderstands, jumps to conclusions that are incorrect and accuses us of selling out. It's really silly.

The Above Network, LLC is a media company. We created it so we could build the first genuinely "crowd sourced" media company on the planet. To think we should not grow the business or do everything in our power to expand the awareness of our membership's thoughts and views is absolutely counter to what the vision is.

We are very clear about the fact we will never alter or limit any content to satisfy an outside entity (advertiser or investor) and we have turned down lucrative offers because of this stance in the past. When I hear disgruntled, angry people who don't have a clue, cry "sell out" it astonishes me too.

Whatever the trumped up complaints, whatever the latest disgruntled story the fact remains there is no other site or company on line that works harder at making sure the membership's thoughts and perspectives about the issues of the day and the wide range of alternative topics discussed here gets the attention it deserves as the "voice of humanity".

What Ross calls censorship is in reality the removal of plain old spam. Anyone who has been paying attention the past several weeks has seen the repeated posts and threads asking for people to go on his "show" or supply him with podcasts.

It's just ridiculous and sad that someone who sat at the table and ate the bread for nearly two years, without ever being asked for anything return, can act with such a lack of class when the seating at the table has to be adjusted. He wasn't even asked to leave the table just slide down a spot or two.

Pitiful.

Springer...

[edit on 9-19-2008 by Springer]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I've always held ATS in high-esteem for both its efforts and methods and have been pleasantly surprised by its growth. Clearly, ATS is at a point where it can take a number of different paths, each with its own rewards and pitfalls. Deciding on which path to walk is not an easy task and I hope that every step is considered carefully before being placed.

The danger of keeping the site 'as is' would not permit the extension into interesting new fields which will inevitably be met by other sites. Stagnation on the internet is not sensible; the internet is still in its infancy, its silent era and the death of ATS would be swift should it refuse to speak. I hope that long standing members understand this and continue to embrace and support the developments being made.

The honesty of those running and owning the site, their openness in matters of advertisement, aims and potential has fostered an environment in which the members, who pay no subscription, feel they can criticise and protest the running of the site. This is something that must be applauded when it remains within obvious limits.

The increasing commercialisation of ATS will have effects and like many others I too am worried. It would seem to me that the very nature of ATS dictates a separation from commercial interests where ATS is the provider of the service. Printing t-shirts, self-publishing books and running non-discriminatory advertising space permits ATS to choose the nature of its correspondence. An 'if you don't like it, don't buy it' policy can be applied and ATS controls the pack.

When ATS becomes the provider of a service, the maintenance of the position reached requires an increasing degree of subservience. The flat-lining of commercial television news is an obvious point of reference. A company having a stake in a TV network does not want its other interests criticised in its TV network's news releases.

What happens when a thread appears on ATS, for example, that posits that the William Morris Agency in Shanghai colludes with the Chinese government to blacklist outspoken Chinese artists? No contract will be save, or be saved, should WMA ask ATS to remove the thread and ATS decline. The knock on effect is that other agencies decline to take on a maverick website that won't back down if their commercial interests are threatened. The other option, of course, is to take the thread down.

You can easily see how this could happen to an ATS television show, too.

I hope the Three Amigos get this right, I truly do, because a globally respected ATS would be a wonderful thing.

[edit on 19-9-2008 by Woland]

Conspiracy wise... I do not think ATS does something that would not benefit their members more than themself (The Tree A's).
I'm not long time Standing member here, not a full year yet even, and during this time have not seen anything that could be called "bad" acting from the Mods/Admins on this site.

The people running the whole ATS is not Springer, SO or SimonGray.
It's us, posters, readers, writers that make this site for what it is, with the help of the staff on ATS.
This Community that we all have joined is almost addictive in certain ways.

The rules that exist are simple, alot more than on many other forums.

But then we have people that when given a piece of a cake, just dont want the free cake, they want the whole hand on the deal.
Doesn't work like that, nowhere.

Anyways, i'm eternaly grateful for this site, Springer, SO, SimonGray and not the least to forget, the ATS Staff, which makes this site for what it is.

Oh, btw this is not arse kissing , just my opinion on this.