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The ATS Issues Thread

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posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 




Nope.... have no program that I know of?
Maybe I do.... Hmmmmm

Either way, That's how I do it.... then they're somewhere else too.

Hopefully It'll be sorted out with the new ATS changes.




posted on Jun, 15 2010 @ 08:13 PM
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Just a quick word of thanks for the new Gulf Oil Disaster Forum. A welcome and vital enhancement that will simplify/streamline updates. A valuable, convenient and pertinent addition.


Despite the old saying, "When I do something right nobody remembers, when I do something wrong nobody forgets" your actions will be long remembered. You folks rock!

Thanks - A - Million

[edit on 15-6-2010 by kinda kurious]



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 08:21 AM
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I am just sharing an opinion on an important issue.

I complained about this post twice (sorry bout that), was contacted by a moderator and was assured that ats does not allow discrimination against the disabled. Nothing happened, there was no edit so I am now assuming that the answer is that admin decided there was nothing wrong with his post. The n-word is censored from ats and he ironically justified himself by saying the word retard isn't censored (and therefore okay). His post is pretty bad.. and we are told to use the alert function.. I did so now I have no idea what is acceptable and what is not. I am posting here as I have no confidence in the alert function. I have given admin time to address this and I do not want that post being buried into being no longer relevent.


www.abovetopsecret.com...
ya man... im a friggin retard who doesnt know the difference between 3,000 miles of sea and 50 miles of sea...

you got it man...

were all just a bunch of retards...

why even debate... when you can just call everyone who disagrees a retard.

I mean, if you really cant tell the difference between a map that looks like D as opposed to a map that looks like C you really have to be a retard. So, if i conclude that you are right and i am bad at geography, by my own standards i am a retard.
So good job accidently(or purposefully) insulting many forum goers of their own intelligence.

C is wrong, its not right, and no matter how much you make fun of me(and probably us) my(our) position wont change on it.

Emphasis mine.

I should not have to explain why the word is offensive.. but even if some do not think it's a big deal the disabled are still a minority group and should be afforded the same protection as other ats members yet they are not.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful, intolerant, bigoted and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.


I hate that I am yet again putting the spotlight on an ugly subject and I really feel like I am putting myself on the outer by trying to draw attention to this issue. People have seen it for themselves anyway so please do not think I am mudslinging.. if people stay quiet on issues like these then such attitudes become part of ATS culture and lower the overall standard. ATS can do better.

[edit on 16-6-2010 by riley]



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by riley
 


Rest assured that the staff has received your complaint and that the matter is currently being discussed. Please be patient as sometimes these matters do take time to resolve.



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by maria_stardust
 


Thankyou Maria.. we'll see what happens I guess. I appreciate you looking into it.



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 09:53 AM
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reply to post by riley
 




You think the word Retard is as bad as the N-word?

Are you actually serious?



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 10:00 AM
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I'd like to point out in regard to the N- word and retard how the Dutch look at it.

The N- word has no meaning whatsoever. That is my experience and I know a lot of people with dark skin.

Retard is most definitely regarded as a curse. We talk about mentally or physically disabled people.



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by riley
 




You think the word Retard is as bad as the N-word?

Are you actually serious?

Of course I am.

Do you think only racial slurs are offensive? So the disabled do not count as a minority group?
50 years ago the n-word was considered as just a bit of fun to throw around. Imagine being someone with a disabilty. They cannot HELP that they have a disabilty yet they get called retard. Whats the difference between calling someone who is black the n-word and calling someone who's disabled a retard? Both insults cut just as deep and both groups have suffered at the hands of bigoted abusers. The disabled are not fair game and should be protected like everyone else.

www.r-word.org...

[edit on 16-6-2010 by riley]



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 11:30 AM
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Oh fer cryin' out loud. Take no offense where no offense is meant. The forums aren't going to be sanitized for everyone's protection from having delicate sensibilities scuffed.

Alert the personal attacks upon yourself, and move on.

God save us from people wanting to save all of us from everything they think everyone needs to be saved from.

And bless the pygmies in New Guinea.
Amen.



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by MrDesolate
Oh fer cryin' out loud. Take no offense where no offense is meant. The forums aren't going to be sanitized for everyone's protection from having delicate sensibilities scuffed.

So you do not think the protections of the T and C should be applied to everyone? The forums are already sanitized with rules that everyone agrees to when they sign up. Everyone agrees not to be hateful, intolerant or bigoted.. the T and C does not say "except for people with disablities".

[edit on 16-6-2010 by riley]



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by riley
 


Not a word I use. Any personal attack is grounds for T&C action, I believe. If it's used as a personal attack, alert on it. If it's profanity, alert on it.

I can say some people are idiots and that's fine. I can't call you an idiot without reasonably expecting the staff to take action.

I think you're stretching a point by suggesting a word be prohibited because you don't happen to think it's appropriate. Context is everything.

You've apparently addressed it every way it can be addressed. Let it go. Or keep pushing, it's irrelevant to me. I think you've taken it to an absurd extreme and are now just being silly.

Or is silly a prohibited riley word as well?



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by riley
Do you think only racial slurs are offensive?



Nope, there are plenty of words and insults that offend a broad range of people, and I'm well aware of that thanks.





So the disabled do not count as a minority group?



I didn't actually say anything remotely resembling that whatsoever...
And the thread that you're complaining about, the person wasn't slating disabled people at all.... wasn't attacking disabled people and didn't intend to mock or make light of disabled people.






Whats the difference between calling someone who is black the n-word and calling someone who's disabled a retard?




They are both completely out of order and both words are highly offensive... if you're actually calling someone either of them.
The person you're complaining about did nothing of the sort.

Trying to turn this into a "this word is as bad as that word" or "people shouldn't mock the disabled" argument is completely blowing it out of proportion and twisting it into something It's not.




The disabled are not fair game and should be protected like everyone else.



I certainly don't think that way and from reading the thread and post you linked to, I don't believe that was the posters intention either.

You're making a massive deal out of something that was not an attack on anyone and was not meant the way you're taking it.

Believe me.... I'm usually the first to defend people and hate all forms of discrimination and people who pick on minorities and so on..... this absolutely was not the case in this example.


As the above poster said, your complaint is just silly.




[edit on 16/6/10 by blupblup]



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by blupblup
I certainly don't think that way and from reading the thread and post you linked to, I don't believe that was the posters intention either.

His intention was to insult all people with mental retardation by saying I was comparing him to them. The word retard ONLY slanders retarded people like the n word only slanders people of Nigerian decent.


You're making a massive deal out of something that was not an attack on anyone and was not meant the way you're taking it.

It was an attack on people with mental retardations. He even said "bunch of friggen retards".


Believe me.... I'm usually the first to defend people and hate all forms of discrimination and people who pick on minorities and so on..... this absolutely was not the case in this example.

There are a million disabled people and advocates that disagree with you. If his post had the n word instead of the word retard it would have been deleted and recieved a warning instantly.

However it is still there which tells me that the position of ATS is to allow slurs against the disabled. Apparently the T and C do not apply to them. I was told to be patient yesterday yet nothing was done.


ATS is generally ahead of the rest of society in most areas. This is a real shame.



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by riley
 



I'm not gonna go point for point arguing this.

You say this tells you that ATS allows slurs on disabled people??
Are you honestly for real?

You think that if someone says "Oh you retard" or whatever, that they're actually purposely attacking disabled people?
You seriously need to look at that post in the context it was written.... It wasn't about disabled people and had nothing to do with mocking them.... you really are seeing this in completely the wrong way.



A word does have more than one meaning and variation you know?


The dictionary definition gives 2 examples

re·tard 2 (rtärd)
n. Offensive Slang
1. Used as a disparaging term for a mentally retarded person.
2. A person considered to be foolish or socially inept.

So one is offensive, the other is slightly more a dig or jibe as opposed to an insult.


The thesaurus definition is :

Noun 1 retard. retard - a person of subnormal intelligence
changeling, cretin, half-wit, idiot, imbecile, moron
mongoloid - a person suffering from Down syndrome (no longer used technically in this sense)
simpleton, simple - a person lacking intelligence or common sense.


www.thefreedictionary.com...

As you can see, almost every example given has more to do with lack of intelligence and someone being a fool/idiot than it has to do with mental retardation or any mental disabilities.


I'm not going to argue/debate it any further.

You are literally the only person who sees it this way so I'm glad it's been left there.

I don't even use the word, not really my kinda thing to say really.... but I can certainly tell how and in what context a word, any word, is being used... and that's usually just from reading the post.

You honestly feel after reading the post you linked to, that the persons intentions were to attack and make fun of/mock, mentally disabled people?

I think you need to reread it or just perhaps chill out.

Because you are wrong.



[edit on 16/6/10 by blupblup]



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by riley
 



I'm not gonna go point for point arguing this.

You say this tells you that ATS allows slurs on disabled people??
Are you honestly for real?

You think that if someone says "Oh you retard" or whatever, that they're actually purposely attacking disabled people?

Yes.. just as if someone was called the n-word is would be attacking people of african decent.

You seriously need to look at that post in the context it was written.... It wasn't about disabled people and had nothing to do with mocking them.... you really are seeing this in completely the wrong way.

He was mocking himself and using them to do it. When people use retard as an insult they are mocking anyone who has a mental retardation.


A word does have more than one meaning and variation you know?


The dictionary definition gives 2 examples

re·tard 2 (rtärd)
n. Offensive Slang
1. Used as a disparaging term for a mentally retarded person.
2. A person considered to be foolish or socially inept.

So one is offensive, the other is slightly more a dig or jibe as opposed to an insult.

We both know it is in reference to the mentally disabled. You seem to be trying to use a loophole so you can justify it's use. And you actually used an offensive slang definition? Even your definition says it's offensive. :shk:


The thesaurus definition is :

Noun 1 retard. retard - a person of subnormal intelligence
changeling, cretin, half-wit, idiot, imbecile, moron
mongoloid - a person suffering from Down syndrome (no longer used technically in this sense)
simpleton, simple - a person lacking intelligence or common sense.


www.thefreedictionary.com...

As you can see, almost every example given has more to do with lack of intelligence and someone being a fool/idiot than it has to do with mental retardation or any mental disabilities.

Yeah and I can go tit for tat and prove why using the n-word here should be okay. It is short for Nigeran after all! It may have begun as just a slang word to slave traders etc. but it become much more than that. It is the same case with the word retard. Did you not see the "r word" campaign I posted or are they just making a big deal over nothing as well?


I'm not going to argue/debate it any further.

You are literally the only person who sees it this way so I'm glad it's been left there.

I certainly am not.. someone posted earlier. Maybe others have faith that ats will do the right thing (they still might) or maybe they do not feel welcome here. Or maybe they are too busy looking after their disabled children or have other things to deal with. The disabled have many injustices they have to deal with.. this is merely one.

In any case just because I am only 1 of a few voices doesn't been my opinion is worth any less. I am only asking that the T and C apply to everyone and if a member has a disablity they should be able to come here without being smacked in the mouth with phrases like "bunch of retards".

[edit on 16-6-2010 by riley]



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by riley
 


I wasn't gonna say anything, cause this really isn't the right thread for this argument, but here goes.

Words are meaningless. The context of the word is what holds the meaning.

Just because you are offended doesn't mean THEY are offended.

Grow some thick skin.

YOU do not have the right to NOT be offended.

That's life.

ATS isn't allowing slurs against people, ATS understands the context of words within a discussion.

Especially if somebody is referring to themselves as a retard, what's it to you? How are you affected by somebody calling themselves a name?

Personally, if somebody wants to degrade themselves with derogatory terms, that's their business and I won't waste my time being offended for somebody else's lack or "politically correct" speech.

~Keeper



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by riley
 


I wasn't gonna say anything, cause this really isn't the right thread for this argument, but here goes.

Words are meaningless. The context of the word is what holds the meaning.

I have already explained repetively why this word is offensive in the context it was used.. and it was used five times in the same post just to be extra offensive. It wasn't just an unintended throwaway line. I even posted a link to the r-word campaign.. besides which if you were right the n-word would be allowed so dont give me that bull about free speech.


Just because you are offended doesn't mean THEY are offended.

Grow some thick skin.

YOU do not have the right to NOT be offended.

So what is the point of this then? Or doesn't it count in this case?

www.abovetopsecret.com...) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful, intolerant, bigoted and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.




ATS isn't allowing slurs against people, ATS understands the context of words within a discussion.

Especially if somebody is referring to themselves as a retard, what's it to you? How are you affected by somebody calling themselves a name?

It insults the demographic they are comparing themselves to.

[edit on 16-6-2010 by riley]



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 09:14 PM
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I have already explained repetively why this word is offensive in the context it was used.. and it was used five times in the same post just to be extra offensive.


Well to you it was offensive, to me it was funny. Again why should something be removed if only YOU who is obviously not retarted is offended?



It wasnt just an unintended throwaway line. I even posted a link to the r-word campaign.. besides which is you were right the n-word would be allowed so dont give me that bull about free speech.


It is free speech. You have the right to NOT read anything you deem offensive. I don't understand how you think ATS is somehow encouraging behaviour that is offensive to you. I read plenty of stuff here that offends either my beliefs or my way of thinking, but I don't get angry cause at the end of the day it really doesn't affect me.


So what is the point of this then? Or doesn't it count in this case?
Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful, intolerant, bigoted and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.


I don't see how that post in particular was abusive, hateful, intelorent, bigoted, racist. I dont' see how he was harrassing, threatening or attacking anybody, but himself really.



It insults the demographic they are comparing themselves to.


You aren't part of the demographic. Man you must have a really hard time with TV then? Shows like family guy and Simpsons must really tick you off. Do you write the FCC about it?

It's just silly for you to say that ATS is encouraging members to be offensive, the T&C you quoted isn't applicable as the T&C is a means to govern discussion, not a single post which was in reference to the poster himself and not anybody else.

It's humor, bad taste? Sure.

Actionable? IMO no.

~Keeper



posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Hi

I think retard is inherently a profoundity. As the dictionary even shows.

I'm not saying I'm offended by it but I'm also not offended by the N-word.
The N- word is above it all a very American thing as they don't use it where I live.


Because ATS has rules against discrimination, retard should be included because a minority is named retard.

They are very beautiful rules. There is no place Like ATS.


Kind regards

~ Sinter

Edit:
I very much agree with you. "Words are meaningless"
To bad so many people do act on what this meaningless says it means.

[edit on 6/16/2010 by Sinter Klaas]



posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by riley
 





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